Whale watching boat sinks off Canadian coast
I'm interested in knowing the exact cause of the sinking.
I'm interested in knowing the exact cause of the sinking.
Bad stuff in BC
- Thread starter C-Dawg
- Start date
A 9.8 to 13 feet sea (swell) isn't much for a 65 foot boat if they're spaced a ways apart, but if a steep wave in shallow water were to drop the boat from 10-13 feet onto a rock quickly, anything could happen, IMHO.
Too bad it happened. Hope most everyone else is OK.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Too bad it happened. Hope most everyone else is OK.
Joe. :teeth :thup
A gut-wrenching photo:
"This photograph of the MV Leviathan II was shot by Albert Titian as Ahousaht First Nation boats scrambled to help those forced into the water as the ship sank. (Albert Titian/Facebook) "
From this news article, which has more information and photos of the vessel in better times:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3288191
"This photograph of the MV Leviathan II was shot by Albert Titian as Ahousaht First Nation boats scrambled to help those forced into the water as the ship sank. (Albert Titian/Facebook) "
From this news article, which has more information and photos of the vessel in better times:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3288191
Marco Flamingo
Active member
The photo of the vessel upright is also a little troubling. "Seaworthy" isn't the first thing that comes to mind when looking at the Leviathan II. Everybody runs to one side to look at something, the boat takes a wave broadside, and it flops over. I'm not saying that's what happened, it's just that the concept of a sight-seeing boat operating in the graveyard of the Pacific bothers me a little.
Mark
Mark
In tragedies we should wait until all studies by the responsible organization (I believe in this case Transport Canada) are in, and the reports are issued, before coming to any conclusion.
Looking at the videos the seas were not unusual, in that area. These whale watching boats go out frequently.
I am sure some of our Canadian brethren can tell us if this vessel was subject to stability tests (both by naval architect and real time testing, as in the US,) but I suspect that this vessel was. In the US, the average passenger weight was changed from 150 to 175 lbs after the capsize of a passenger vessel a few years back. However, to say that a capsize was the cause of this tragedy is a bit premature, unless someone has concrete evidence that is what happened.
Looking at the videos the seas were not unusual, in that area. These whale watching boats go out frequently.
I am sure some of our Canadian brethren can tell us if this vessel was subject to stability tests (both by naval architect and real time testing, as in the US,) but I suspect that this vessel was. In the US, the average passenger weight was changed from 150 to 175 lbs after the capsize of a passenger vessel a few years back. However, to say that a capsize was the cause of this tragedy is a bit premature, unless someone has concrete evidence that is what happened.
AstoriaDave
New member
Those whale watch skippers have a lot of hours operating off Tofino, all westhers and conditions. I'll wait for something definitive before commenting.
I am impressed that 21 folks were whisked from the water and are safe. In a train wreck situation like that, it had to be tough to find and rescue the folks in the water. The Ahousat village is about 4 or 5 miles from the sinking site, allowing for a quick response by the natives.
I am impressed that 21 folks were whisked from the water and are safe. In a train wreck situation like that, it had to be tough to find and rescue the folks in the water. The Ahousat village is about 4 or 5 miles from the sinking site, allowing for a quick response by the natives.
All reports from the area and the videos seem to show relatively calm (but large seas). Fairly long period, low winds. The boat capsized near Plover reefs just west of Vargas Island. That's a fairly large and shallow reef system with many parts of it above water. Sea lions congregate in the area on the rocks and it is likely that the boat was in the area to look at sea lions. One local fishing guide who participated in the rescue speculates that the boat got too close to the reef. That boat would have been required to have stability testing done (even small guide boats must meet stability requirements in BC).
We have to remember that in all boats, C Dory included, that once the boat takes on water, all of the stability curves, and past experience of stability is gone. If the vessel is in shallow water, she will be inspected, and if no penetration of the hull, or failure of sea cocks etc, most likely she will have new stability tests done. One always hopes that lessons are learned from a tragedy, so they are not repeated.
I also have been following this story so close as I used to work in the area and know it fairly well. I just have a sick feeling inside thinking about it
What amazes me is how fast things can happen on the water !
How often do you hear "there just was no time..."
My son just got accepted into the local coast guard volunteer unit
We must do everything we can to prevent trajedies like this before they happen.
All praise to the First Nations people and everyone who assisted in the rescue
Prayers to those families who have suffered loss
David and Val
What amazes me is how fast things can happen on the water !
How often do you hear "there just was no time..."
My son just got accepted into the local coast guard volunteer unit
We must do everything we can to prevent trajedies like this before they happen.
All praise to the First Nations people and everyone who assisted in the rescue
Prayers to those families who have suffered loss
David and Val
Just a few points of interest:
It was an old fashion flare that alerted fishermen to come to the rescue. (lessen, LED lights may not have gone high enough to be seen, have a high shooting flare)
One of the rescued persons reports a sudden wave swamped the boat. (eye witnesses reports are very important but often not complete, why was the boat vulnerable to sudden swamping?)
One of the company's smaller boat was swamped and two persons died from a rogue wave several years ago. ( interesting, this boat was much larger, and assumptions are that it should not have suddenly swamped)
Because this was a larger boat (65 feet), people did not have to wear life jackets. (is this really a good idea, 65 feet is large, but not all that large )
It was an old fashion flare that alerted fishermen to come to the rescue. (lessen, LED lights may not have gone high enough to be seen, have a high shooting flare)
One of the rescued persons reports a sudden wave swamped the boat. (eye witnesses reports are very important but often not complete, why was the boat vulnerable to sudden swamping?)
One of the company's smaller boat was swamped and two persons died from a rogue wave several years ago. ( interesting, this boat was much larger, and assumptions are that it should not have suddenly swamped)
Because this was a larger boat (65 feet), people did not have to wear life jackets. (is this really a good idea, 65 feet is large, but not all that large )
Lost Petrel
New member
A few things I read this morning.
Company owner stated that the boat did not have time to call a MAYDAY only to shoot off flares.
Rescuers report engine still running when bow up bobbing in the water.
LIfejackets (they had plenty onboard) are not suggested when inside a cabin as it makes it hard to extricate in a flooded condition.
Company owner stated that the boat did not have time to call a MAYDAY only to shoot off flares.
Rescuers report engine still running when bow up bobbing in the water.
LIfejackets (they had plenty onboard) are not suggested when inside a cabin as it makes it hard to extricate in a flooded condition.
Lost Petrel":3l2wzzb6 said:
I question #1, especially with A DSC radio--and the vessel should have had DSC. All you have to do, is flip a piece of plastic, and hit the red button---less time and effort than to locate flares, and step outside of the wheel house. Every skipper should have a plan for each emergency. When we had multiple guests aboard for variable lengths of time, in various parts of the world, we had a set of laminated "emergency action" sheets by the companionway. Each new guest was to read these. An EPRIB was by the companionway, and a second also packed in the inflatable. A portable VHF was by the companionway, as well as a couple of good sharp knives. Even in the days before DSC it only took a few seconds to hit the mike on channel 16 (reason one radio should be on channel 16 at all times, and dual radios should be the norm). "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, vessel XXXX, position atXXXX" Another person should be getting the flares, which should be in a handy place--in our case right by the EPRIB.
How would the diesel engine get air when the bow was the only part above water? Only explanation would be the engine in the forepeak--with a very long drive shaft, or hydraulic drive system. Although many diesels will run under water, others now have complicated electronics, and will not function if under water. Other issues concern a fuel on/ off solenoid, which may short out under salt water.
The skipper should always tell passengers where the life jackets are located, some one show hot to put them on.
Again--we have to wait on Transport Canada's Evaluation before we have answers.
Prevention==good question. Don't take risks. I have been on overcrowded ferry's in 3rd world countries , where I got on the top deck and put the life jacket on--the cockpit was taking on water, and the boat was less than stable. After an experience like that I can see how these passenger vessels take on water, and sink. Fortunately that ferry boat made it--but there would have been many lives lost if the boat had gone down--people could not get out of the cabin because of the crowding, and panic!
I had the same thoughts but I have to wonder if DSC would be that useful in a sudden roll that would throw the captain around and perhaps wind up with the antennas in the water. If a roll occurs quickly, the fixed mount DSC radio will likely not be that useful. A well placed ditch bag (or more than one on a boat this size) with a handheld DSC radio would likely be the better plan in what appears to be a freak event.thataway":1emfxp5g said:
I had the same question and haven't yet found anything that says the engine was still running. I have heard others on a BC fishing web board indicate that the transmission had failed but again this is (to my knowledge) unconfirmed rumor.thataway":1emfxp5g said:
Yep - I'll be interested in reading their report.thataway":1emfxp5g said:
thataway":2jhxrdot said:
I question #1, especially with A DSC radio--and the vessel should have had DSC. All you have to do, is flip a piece of plastic, and hit the red button---less time and effort than to locate flares, and step outside of the wheel house. Every skipper should have a plan for each emergency. When we had multiple guests aboard for variable lengths of time, in various parts of the world, we had a set of laminated "emergency action" sheets by the companionway. Each new guest was to read these. An EPRIB was by the companionway, and a second also packed in the inflatable. A portable VHF was by the companionway, as well as a couple of good sharp knives. Even in the days before DSC it only took a few seconds to hit the mike on channel 16 (reason one radio should be on channel 16 at all times, and dual radios should be the norm). "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, vessel XXXX, position atXXXX" Another person should be getting the flares, which should be in a handy place--in our case right by the EPRIB.
How would the diesel engine get air when the bow was the only part above water? Only explanation would be the engine in the forepeak--with a very long drive shaft, or hydraulic drive system. Although many diesels will run under water, others now have complicated electronics, and will not function if under water. Other issues concern a fuel on/ off solenoid, which may short out under salt water.
The skipper should always tell passengers where the life jackets are located, some one show hot to put them on.
Again--we have to wait on Transport Canada's Evaluation before we have answers.
You make some experienced observation here Thataway:
I will add a little: First the radio Mayday that never when out! Yes one flip and a push on the red DSC button. "The latest marine radio technology is called Digital Selective Calling (DSC) and will be incorporated into all marine radios. VHF-DSC is an internationally recognized standard that operates on channel 70 of the VHF maritime mobile band. Aside from functioning as a VHF radiotelephone, a VHF-DSC (digital selective calling) radio permits the selective reception of digital calls from other VHF-DSC radios on ships and at Coast Guard centres. The important safety feature of the VHF-DSC radio is that it allows a ship in distress to transmit a rapid distress alert at the push of a button. When connected to a GPS receiver, the distress alert will send an accurate position of the distressed vessel."
However, when a sea hits your vessel, from say the rear quarter, and your looking elsewhere, you could be knocked off your feet and into the water with your passengers. The flares I believe came from the inflatable life boat. Think of this: If that Ahousaht native fisherman had not been looking in the right direction to see the flare, above the headland, there may have been a far higher loss of life. I was a marine engineer in my youth and sailed on many different ships and tug boats. With that back ground I will say, that vessel may have past DOT inspections as seaworthy, but with 3 decks and a shallow draft hull it looked unworthy to me for west coast open ocean conditions. BTW my wife and I were out off Tifino on a whale watching trip this May and our vessel was a 34'er with twin 225 Mercury's. We took some quartering seas 3 metres high and she handled beautifully at planing speed. There is a seamanship phrase to describe how a ship/boat handles the waves-- cranky or tender. The shifting of weight/cargo above or below the CG can change a vessel from cranky (in ballast say) to tender (too much upper deck loading -- IE in this case passengers--??
Yes government inspections and CCG reports will give the final answers. But we C-Brats have years of experience to give some valid observation here without being seen as know it all-s I would hope.
colbysmith
Active member
Bob, regarding DSC. I don't know what the commercial requirements are, but I doubt most folks know how to use it, or even have it hooked up properly. This past summer I made several attempts to use my DSC to contact other vessels, both commercial freighters and small private yachts. None of which replied back. TO be honest, I don't even know if my radio's DSC is working properly as I have made numerous attempts in the Door County area to send the test code to the USCG, with no response. However, I also sent a test out in Port Washington, and got an immediate reply. (So I think my radio's DSC IS working. But to be sure, I have it at the manufacturer now to be checked out.) Finally, while I got no reply back to my test signal while at the Alton gathering (near St. Louis), I did try using DSC to contact a private yacht at the end of the dock. (In these contacts with other boats, it is in connection with their AIS signals that I'm registering, and then trying to initiate contact using the DSC function. After not getting any response, I actually walked down and spoke to the owners. Come to find out, their radio was alarming (in response to my DSC call), but they didn't know what it was. After some conversation, they offered to "work" with me again on the calls, but were unable to figure it out on their end. (From what I understand, a receiving radio should change to the requested frequency and then the operator can acknowledge and continue the call.) While in the North Channel earlier this summer, I also requested the gentlemen that does the morning broadcast, to announce my MMSI, and ask any fellow boaters to try hailing me by DSC. I did not receive any calls.... Anyway, my point is, I question how many even know how to use their DSC? And it only works if it's connected to an external GPS, or has it's own GPS, to transmit location. Ok, sorry about getting off subject a bit. Think the captain did the right thing in firing off a flare! Colby