dogon dory
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BATTERY SWITCH
- Thread starter Big dave
- Start date
OK, Robbi:
blah blah blahblah, blah blah. (LOL)
It turns out this Blue Seas battery selector switch has AFD (forget about what it means - you need it) built in:
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=31165
I just put one on my boat and plan to swap out my other no-doubt-soon-to-fail Guest switch with another. I like it alot. Very compact, solid.
Let us know what you learn from the book...
blah blah blahblah, blah blah. (LOL)
It turns out this Blue Seas battery selector switch has AFD (forget about what it means - you need it) built in:
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=31165
I just put one on my boat and plan to swap out my other no-doubt-soon-to-fail Guest switch with another. I like it alot. Very compact, solid.
Let us know what you learn from the book...
Salmon Slayer
New member
This thread has been very helpful to me and I must confess that I am often mystified over the whole 12 volt wiring scheme.
Here is another basic question that has bugged me and I am sure someone will be able to help me out. I have dual batteries, one on each side of the motor well (I have an 81 Classic) and they are both in battery boxes. The plastic battery boxes dont seem to have much in the way of ventilation but my batteries are always dry even in this wet climate (they are tied down and under a plywood seat I have on either side)..
Should I be worried that they do not have adequate ventilation? I have never had a problem but its one of those nagging things I have never settled in my mind
Here is another basic question that has bugged me and I am sure someone will be able to help me out. I have dual batteries, one on each side of the motor well (I have an 81 Classic) and they are both in battery boxes. The plastic battery boxes dont seem to have much in the way of ventilation but my batteries are always dry even in this wet climate (they are tied down and under a plywood seat I have on either side)..
Should I be worried that they do not have adequate ventilation? I have never had a problem but its one of those nagging things I have never settled in my mind
Re: battery switching, a unit that looked suspiciously like a Ford starter relay had been added underhood to a mini-motorhome I once owned. The salesman called it a poor man's battery switch. I believe the activating side was wired to the ignition switch (On only, not Starter or Accessory) and the coach battery was on the switched side of the relay. That way, the coach battery was isolated from drawing current from the alternator or starting battery until the engine fired, then both charged as needed, all automatically. My 16 Cruiser will come with just one battery as I have the other, a box, and a relay that I planned to wire as above. What do you think of this apparently elegant system and do you think I understand it correctly?
Salmon Slayer-
Seems like there's always a new twist to the old ball game!
Traditional wisdom was always to well ventilate any battery charging area because the process also inadvertently liberated some hydrogen and oxygen gases as the battery was charged.
This was a result of the electrolysis of water, which is simply using electricity to split the hydrogen and oxygen atoms apart that are in the H2O water molecule.
Water had to be added to the battery periodically to replace the water that was lost to electrolysis.
The problem was that the gases could explosively recombine if a spark was present.
A few decades later, we notice that most all batteries are sealed and don't ever require the addition of water. This means that there is no water being consumed in electrolysis, no gases being liberated, and no explosion danger.
So if you're using sealed, modern batteriess, there's no danger from the gases, and you can just keep the box pretty much sealed up and everything will be fine.
I'm actually sleeping on the dinette berth over two big group 27 deep cycle batteries in boxes in the storage locker under the front seat in my boat as a result of this change in tecnnology.
********************************************
This is similar to the old dictum of " don't leave the batteries stored on a cold cement floor over the winter because they'll discharge through the bottom of their cases with the humidity from the concrete", etc.
The modern plastic battery cases found on today's batteries eliminated that problem quite a few years ago, too!
********************************************
Now if I could just get a similar technological up date for my aging body.........???
Joe.
Seems like there's always a new twist to the old ball game!
Traditional wisdom was always to well ventilate any battery charging area because the process also inadvertently liberated some hydrogen and oxygen gases as the battery was charged.
This was a result of the electrolysis of water, which is simply using electricity to split the hydrogen and oxygen atoms apart that are in the H2O water molecule.
Water had to be added to the battery periodically to replace the water that was lost to electrolysis.
The problem was that the gases could explosively recombine if a spark was present.
A few decades later, we notice that most all batteries are sealed and don't ever require the addition of water. This means that there is no water being consumed in electrolysis, no gases being liberated, and no explosion danger.
So if you're using sealed, modern batteriess, there's no danger from the gases, and you can just keep the box pretty much sealed up and everything will be fine.
I'm actually sleeping on the dinette berth over two big group 27 deep cycle batteries in boxes in the storage locker under the front seat in my boat as a result of this change in tecnnology.
********************************************
This is similar to the old dictum of " don't leave the batteries stored on a cold cement floor over the winter because they'll discharge through the bottom of their cases with the humidity from the concrete", etc.
The modern plastic battery cases found on today's batteries eliminated that problem quite a few years ago, too!
********************************************
Now if I could just get a similar technological up date for my aging body.........???
Joe.
barefoot-
Sounds like you have a good understanding of the system! The device used as a switch is a solenoid relay, like the ones used as the big amperage switch on a starter.
If it's wired as you suggest, the vehicle and coach batteries are linked together whenever the key is "ON", allowing the two batteries to work together to start the vehicle and get charged back up as well.
I've also seen a similar system where the wire that activates the solenoid, closing the switch, was linked to the alternator output.
This second system isolates the vehicle from the coach battery until the alternator begins to put out current, then closes the solenoid to charge the coach battery.
You should be able to tell the difference easily from where the activating (small) wire lead comes. Sounds like you have the first type.
For a boat with an outboard, the alternator output will be connected with the starting cable inside the engine, so the first system would be your easiest (maybe only practical) choice.
You will wind up with a system that parallels your batteries whenever the ignition key is "ON". I'm OK with such a system, just be sure both of your batteries are strong and in equal condition.
It would be possible to insert a switch in the activation wire to turn off this system if, for some reason, you seriously discharged the house battery, so that you could start on just the starting battery alone. I would do this because paralleling the batteries together when one is fully discharged can result in a huge amperage flow from the good one into the weak one, which can boil the electrolyte in the weak one (Old Faithful with battery acid!) and draw down the strong one to where it won't start the engine !
Go ahead and set it up as needed, being sure to use heavy enough battery cables to handle the loads.
Good Luck!
Joe.
Sounds like you have a good understanding of the system! The device used as a switch is a solenoid relay, like the ones used as the big amperage switch on a starter.
If it's wired as you suggest, the vehicle and coach batteries are linked together whenever the key is "ON", allowing the two batteries to work together to start the vehicle and get charged back up as well.
I've also seen a similar system where the wire that activates the solenoid, closing the switch, was linked to the alternator output.
This second system isolates the vehicle from the coach battery until the alternator begins to put out current, then closes the solenoid to charge the coach battery.
You should be able to tell the difference easily from where the activating (small) wire lead comes. Sounds like you have the first type.
For a boat with an outboard, the alternator output will be connected with the starting cable inside the engine, so the first system would be your easiest (maybe only practical) choice.
You will wind up with a system that parallels your batteries whenever the ignition key is "ON". I'm OK with such a system, just be sure both of your batteries are strong and in equal condition.
It would be possible to insert a switch in the activation wire to turn off this system if, for some reason, you seriously discharged the house battery, so that you could start on just the starting battery alone. I would do this because paralleling the batteries together when one is fully discharged can result in a huge amperage flow from the good one into the weak one, which can boil the electrolyte in the weak one (Old Faithful with battery acid!) and draw down the strong one to where it won't start the engine !
Go ahead and set it up as needed, being sure to use heavy enough battery cables to handle the loads.
Good Luck!
Joe.
Falco, Thanks for the information on the battery switch by Blue Sea. The 9002E sounds like the switch to get as a replacement. I still have not been able to determine if my Suzuki has a AFD system or not, but I never move the switch while the motor is running, I always shut down first.
Is the typical C-Dory two battery system set up as a true "house" and "starter" type system with one battery meant to be the starter, and the other set up to run the house (electronics etc)or are they really interchangable? Both of my batteries are deep cycle batteries, so I have always assumed that starting on "1" or "2" was ok. Then my husband asked if I shut off my electronics when I started the engine? No. In our airplane, there are two master switches. One is the starter and one is the radio (all of the electronics). You never start the engine with the radio switch on. This is to protect the instuments from electrical surges. So, he got me thinking, am I putting my electronics at risk? I think not, but thought I should ask. Thanks for any information. Robbi
Is the typical C-Dory two battery system set up as a true "house" and "starter" type system with one battery meant to be the starter, and the other set up to run the house (electronics etc)or are they really interchangable? Both of my batteries are deep cycle batteries, so I have always assumed that starting on "1" or "2" was ok. Then my husband asked if I shut off my electronics when I started the engine? No. In our airplane, there are two master switches. One is the starter and one is the radio (all of the electronics). You never start the engine with the radio switch on. This is to protect the instuments from electrical surges. So, he got me thinking, am I putting my electronics at risk? I think not, but thought I should ask. Thanks for any information. Robbi
Salmon Slayer
New member
Thanks Joe, gives me piece of mind.
Thank you for the feedback, Sea Wolf. I'd hate to cook a band new 16. I should clarify what I said about the "poor man's automatic battery switch," specifically the activating side of the solenoid being wired to the On terminal of the ignition switch: I should have said the On terminal where only the ignition is on and the radio, instruments, heater, etc, all go off during starting. That way, a depleted coach battery doesn't drain the starter battery the moment you hit Start. Just don't first linger at Full On, where they are parallel. Never mind how I know about that part.
I just updated my battery management system and thought I'd contribute to this thread. As I installed my new chartplotter/sounder I decided that I wanted to eliminate those dreaded "voltage drops" that occur when I try to start my outboard in battery position 2(house) because I forgot to change my battery switch. The starter labors and the electronics blink out. Somehow I stumbled onto this http://www.bluesea.com/ and after a little research I decided to do a comprehensive upgrade. I went with the Dual Circuit Plus Battery Switch, BatteryLink ACR, and a pair of busbars to clean up my wiring. All of these components are mounted on an acrylic panel that cost me all of $12.00 including fabrication. Basically, the #1(cranking) battery is solely dedicated to the starter. All the electronics, dc panel, downriggers, etc., are wired to # 2(house). The Batterylink switch sits between the two batteries and only after #1 is charged does it "close the circuit" and commence to charge #2. Bottom line, the starting battery is always charged and online and when I go to crank my starter the electronics are unaffected because they're entirely isolated. I never have to remember to change the battery switch. A combine option IS available if #1 ever starts to go away. I posted some pictures in Adeline's album for anyone that's interested. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Falco":344mihrz said:(Apr 15, 2006) OK, Robbi:
blah blah blahblah, blah blah. (LOL)
It turns out this Blue Seas battery selector switch has AFD (forget about what it means - you need it) built in:
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=31165
I just put one on my boat and plan to swap out my other no-doubt-soon-to-fail Guest switch with another. I like it alot. Very compact, solid.
Let us know what you learn from the book...
Guest battery switch #2 failed in May. Another Blue Seas to be installed. Glad to hear the factory is no longer using the Guest switches.
Mr. Fisherman
New member
Adeline, How has your mounting board with the velcro held up?
I am in the middle of rewiring my boat and am thinking about doing something similar.
I don't want my bus bar falling off and rolling around though and I fish open water a lot.
What would you do dofferent?
I like the way yours is laid out in the lazerette.
Lookin forward to your reply...
I am in the middle of rewiring my boat and am thinking about doing something similar.
I don't want my bus bar falling off and rolling around though and I fish open water a lot.
What would you do dofferent?
I like the way yours is laid out in the lazerette.
Lookin forward to your reply...
Hi Ray,
It was a GREAT idea but so far has had a few problems. The location I selected is definitely the right one to tie everything together. However, since screws or thru-bolts aren't an option there another solution is required. The "super velcro" would work perfectly if the mounting surface were flat. Sadly, it isn't. My last attempt entailed propping wooden dowels to hold the panel in place until the velcro backed adhesive could cure. So far so good. I will require more time before I could reccommend it to you however. Those halibut trips you take can be rough and you don't want your panel flopping around. However, there is a solution that I guarantee will work. Get some( 2 or 3 or 4 ) small wooden or plastic "firring strips" the height of the panel and 5200 them where needed. Then simply screw the panel to them. That is the way I attached a 1/2" plywood circle to secure my old guest swich. It held for 15+ years. As to the system itself I can say it's WONDERFUL. The starting battery is always brimming, the electronics are totally isolated, and I have no switches to manage. It's just great !How has your mounting board with the velcro held up?
Mr. Fisherman
New member
Thanks for the reply. I suspected the velcro was a bit weak for my application.
I appreciate the data on the 5200 and wood solution and plan to do something similar. I wish I had done this last year when I priced it out. Wire has sure gone up since last year...
I appreciate the data on the 5200 and wood solution and plan to do something similar. I wish I had done this last year when I priced it out. Wire has sure gone up since last year...
I have had the Blue Sea ACR on my boat for almost a year now and really like it. I also have a West Marine on/off battery switch to combine the batteries. The reason for the WM switch is because it has a third small terminal that is energized when the switch is in the on position. I ran a wire from that third terminal to a small led light on my dash, so I would know the switch is on. I sometimes forget to look at the switch to see if it is on and the light on the dash reminds me.
Not For Hire
New member
I rewired my 22 in April. Installed third battery. Two in port lazarette and one in sboard lazarette. Added large post negative busses in each lazarette and also a small post one on sboard side. So only one negative and one positive cable on each battery (except each start battery also has a postive stern bilge pump wire direct to battery). The house battery postive connects to 50 amp breaker then to the new BEP multi switch. From the BEP house switch two to gauge wires feed the house panels with a 30 amp fuse on each near the BEP switch. The two VSRs allow the house battery to be charged from either or both engines as soon as the VSR detects the respective starting battery is charged to (or at) a certain level. Very pleased with this system. Also added fan, red led night lighting, upgraded charging system, radar, two more 12 volt outlets and one more 110 outlet while I was about it.
The BEP installation basically followed BEP's wiring diagram. They didn't specify the fuse sizes to use on either side of the house switch. I also kept one of my previous 1,2, off, all switches. It is labeled emergency use only and is key locked. If I ever needed to it would allow combining the house battery with one of the start batteries.
Regards,
The BEP installation basically followed BEP's wiring diagram. They didn't specify the fuse sizes to use on either side of the house switch. I also kept one of my previous 1,2, off, all switches. It is labeled emergency use only and is key locked. If I ever needed to it would allow combining the house battery with one of the start batteries.
Regards,
Would you allow me to butt in with a question concerning charging a dual battery system using a "float charge" charger. This is what I have done so please let me know if this is the correct way: I positioned the battery switch on "all" and put the charger clips on the starting battery. Will the float charger charge both batteries set up this way?