Bear Spray

Picture a wildlife advisory sign....

Due to the frequency of human-bear encounters, the B.C. Fish and Wildlife Branch is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen and any persons that use the out of doors in a recreational or work related function to take extra precautions while in the field.

We advise the outdoorsman to wear little noisy bells on clothing so as to give advanced warning to any bears that might be close by so you don’t take them by surprise.

We also advise anyone using the out-f-doors to carry “Pepper Spray” with him is case of an encounter with a bear.

Outdoorsmen should also be on the watch for fresh bear activity, and be able to tell the difference between black bear feces and grizzly bear feces. Black bear feces is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear shit has bells in it and smells like pepper.

Buy a shotgun.

John
Scallywag
 
Colby, I bought mine in Canada and don't remember the brand. I gave it away before I came back because I didn't want to carry it across the border. I am getting less worried about taking it across the border as I hear of more folks doing that.

Another device that was recommended to me was one of the canned air horns. I found on of the small ones that fit in a vest pocket and carried it when hiking, too.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
I have heard from forgotten sources that bear spray can just piss them off.

Max at Kwatsi recommended an air horn. Since he had lived up there for many years, we just assumed it would work so we started carrying one when ashore.

I forget which is which and besides, it sounded bogus, but for one kind of bear, you are supposed to act big, scary, and aggressive and for the other, you are supposed to curl up in a ball and play dead. This was according to a ranger in Glacier Bay Park, but I cannot imagine doing either one.

Everyone agrees that making lots of noise is a really good idea so you do not surprise them.

John
 
Some points from my own choices and things I've read

- Not interested in personally messing with guns on my boat or in crossing the border.
- Those bear bells are pretty much worthless. (Not enough noise). Recommendations are to just shout Hey Bear and clap frequently so you don't sneak up and surprise a bear. Also traveling in groups of 4 or 5 is good.
- Very loud air horns have been mentioned, but still not as effective as the bear spray.
- If you do carry a gun, you better have one that kills and don't miss. Otherwise you've just pissed the bear off.

"According to a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service report, law enforcement agents and experienced hunters who use firearms to defend themselves suffer injury about 50 per cent of the time, while people defending themselves with bear spray escape injury most of the time and injuries that did occur were less severe (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service). University of Calgary’s Dr. Stephen Herrero found similar results. This is why bear spray is often carried in the backcountry by biologists, professional guides and hikers/campers.
Even a skilled marksman with steady nerves may have a slim chance of deterring a bear attack with a gun.” – U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service "

- If you have to use the bear spray, you'll probably need a clean pair of shorts. (You don't use it till the bear is within 30-60 feet while charging!)
- I believe it's play dead with Grizzleys, act big with Blacks, but I'll have to watch those videos several more times.

I'm not concerned with having the stuff on board crossing the borders, from the various threads I've read. I also don't plan on purposely getting up close and that personal with a bear. However, situations can arise/happen that aren't planned on. Just seems to make sense to have the bear spray from everything I've read, but just wondering if anyone else has information as too which spray is better.

Oh, and Foggy, I've read some stories where the bear came onto the boat! :shock: Colby
 
I've spend most of my life hiking in bear country in the Canadian Rockies and have had Grizzly bears and cougars sighted on my bison ranch here in the foothills of the Rockies. Over the decades I have encountered bears, both black and grizzly at least 30 times. One weekend I had six bear encounters with both black and grizzly bears in Kananaskis Country, Alberta. My biggest piece of advice is the be aware in bear country and to make your presence known to the bear. I frequently make noise, yell 'hey bear' and keep my eyes and ears open. Bear Bells are useless. I also carry bear spray on my belt as well as bear bangers. Both are easily available in Canada at most outdoor stores. I have never used the bear spray, but last year I fired a bear banger at a sow grizzly with a cub that was charging us at Atlin Lake, BC. She stopped and looked and went the other way. Below is a link to my Atlin Lake trip. I understand that bear bangers are illegal in the US without a permit, as was noted in a comment in my Atlin Lake report. They are fired from a pencil flare gun which I carry both flares and bangers with for safety. I have never carried a firearm for protection and I am not sure if I ever will. A recent study have now found that bear spray has been proven to be more effective than fire arms in warding off bear attacks. One thought is that the bears you may encounter on the coast are bigger, due to their salmon diet, than the mountain bears and probably less habituated to people than the bears you might find in a area like Banff National Park. This probably makes them more dangerous.

http://www.c-brats.com/index.php?sid=db ... 8027fd53f0
 
I'll try and make this story short.
Grew up in Kenai, Alaska. My wife(girlfriend at the time), two friends and myself were backpacking. At the end of the trip there was a long gravel road about 2 miles, strait and long with just a little hill. At the end of that road was the restaurant where my truck was parked. The group of us were about half way there when out of the woods walked a very large grizzly. He was about 50 yard in front of us. I was carrying a 45 at the time and my wife had a 22 strapped to her pack for stupid chickens. You're taught to stand together to look bigger and make lots of noise. So we did, grouped up we all yelled hey bear, go away bear, you know, noise...

Turns out that only interested him and he started heading right towards us...

40 Yards my pistol is out and on him, my friend is getting really nervous so I pull my wife's 22 from her pack and hand it to him. He responds, "what am I suppose to do with this?" I said, "You go stand over there and shoot him and when you piss him off and he attacks you, I'll get him from behind!" Apparently I'm not that funny...

30 Yards, I'm about to shoot and.....down the road comes a van, spooking him off into the woods long enough for us to scurry by stopping only long enough to look at his massive paw prints.

35 Yards past the last seen spot of him and he walks right back onto the road. He was probably only a matter of feet in the bushes watching us as we passed. He stops, looks at us and then crosses the road and dips back into the woods.

I've hunted(bear included) and fished for years, still do. Seen plenty of grizzly and black bear. Black bear have always ran when I yell at them, I've yet to raise my voice at a grizzly again.

I guess in the end it's all what your comfortable with. If your in tall grass and catch them off guard you'll probably not get a shot off of either. Most folks back home carry a large caliber pistol, or a shot gun. Pistols off the table for traversing Canada so.... I'm sure there is someone that can speak to pepper spray, I just don't know anyone that carries it....

On a funny note..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3qhEIZBlX8
I'd have had bear for dinner

John
Scallywag
 
My first wife and I were backpacking across the Kenai Peninsula one Summer. We spotted a few grizzlies out looking for food but they paid us no attention. At one point we had to walk through reeds that were taller than I for about fifty yards. When we got to the end of the reeds a couple asked us if we saw the mother and her two cubs. We hadn't but were told they had just crossed the path in the reeds less than a minute before we came by.

I came up on a large moose a few miles later that scared me more than the bears. I rounded a corner and came within six feet of it. He snorted and I kept moving.
 
When driving the meal cruise boats in Grand Teton National Park, we carried bear spray on the boats, and with us when we went on the island for meal service. If you have never been exposed to that stuff, it is seriously nasty - I'm told about 10 times more potent than Mace used on people. A can of it leaked a couple drops in the boat when my young first mate was handling it - had to send him to the clinic for treatment, because (in his young wisdom) he touched his face and eyes with it on his hands. :roll:

Last I recall for going into Canada, you are not allowed to have Mace, but bear spray is OK as long as it says "Bear Spray" on the can.

As far as the bells and pepper smell in the scat, we used to tell visitors this for determining the difference between a brown bear and a black bear: If it chases you up a tree and kills you, it is a black bear. If it pushes the tree over and kills you, it is a brown (grizzly) bear. :wink:
 
As far as the bells and pepper smell in the scat, we used to tell visitors this for determining the difference between a brown bear and a black bear: If it chases you up a tree and kills you, it is a black bear. If it pushes the tree over and kills you, it is a brown (grizzly) bear. :wink:[/quote]

I stole that from the picture in the link below!

http://www.outdooroddities.com/2008/07/ ... ning-sign/
 
colbysmith":239mnmy2 said:
SNIP
Oh, and Foggy, I've read some stories where the bear came onto the boat! Colby
Click to expand...

Colby, if you're as sweet (like honey) as (some of) your posts, think twice 'bout
going into bear country.

Aye.
Grandpa used to say, "You gotta know when the deck is stacked against you."

P.S.: Last Colorado elk hunt trip, the morning before in Silverthorne I read a newspaper
article "The Most Dangerous Animal in Colorado Isn't what You Think".
It's the moose not the bears.

Grandma used to say, "Might makes right."
 
I believe in firepower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCP0Xhx6sfw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUG8UPsgE3U

Notice, they did not shoot the bear. THey scared the bear. And it worked...

Only pepper-spray I've used is LE version. Still carry it. I have also had the "privilege" to be sprayed with it in training...and in the field. If you are light skinned/eyed, the effects are worse. I had an academy classmate who was of Mexican decent. When he got sprayed he laughed and said "That's it?" It had zero effect on him. Once must be accurate and know the wind direction when using it. The "foggers" are worse; they blow at the slightest breeze although in general, one need not be as accurate when discharging them.
 
I don't have as much experience as some have in the forum, but enough to be comfortable around both Black and Brown (Grizzlies ). I have been on the other side of a berry bush from a Grizzly, even though I made a lot of noise. I backed away slowly--I have come around a bend in a stream as I was fishing and a grizzly was fishing--and I backed away slowly. I have seen as many as 30 grizzlies in one day in the Pack Creek area. I have been touched by a black bear as I was in my sleeping bag solo many miles from habitation in the Sierra. Every time I have had a revolver with me--and since the 90's I have been carrying bear spray.

A 629 S & W 4" Magnum is as large a handgun that I am capable of accurately handling. When in AK it was loaded with Buffalo Bore flat nose 305gr hardcast bullet and I carried it in a cross draw chauffeur's rig, because I often was operating the dinghy or handling my two Labrador retrievers. I took the dogs ashore at least 3 times a day. We always carried bear spray by Counter Assault. Colby--be sure you get the spray which is approved for Canada. One of my guests wanted to see how the spray worked, and what the range was--I would say 30 feet is what is effective. The grizzlies can run at 35 mph This means they can cover 30 feet in less than a second! (My guest bought me a second new can of bear spray).
I shipped my .44 mag to a FFL dealer in AK.

In the lower 48, I have always carried a .357 Ruger. SS GP 100, loaded with hard cast Buffalo Bore flat nose 180 gr. bullets. I agree that most of the time a black bear will run away--I have had several dozen close encounters, and all have run when I made noise (beating on the frying pan, yelling or air horn)--but there are a number of incidents of maulings, so do not assume that the bear will run. I will step aside and give the bear the right of way! I suspect that attacks are under-reported. From 2000 to 2009 there were 16 black bear fatalities in N. America reported, and 10 brown bear fatalities--I know of several not reported, thus the under reporting.

Would a 12 Gauge, with rifled slugs be better, or a 45/75, .338 mag, .375 mag .416 magnums etc.? Sure...but not convent to carry, at least for me. I talked to 4 different rangers/game wardens at Pack Creek (one of the largest concentrations of brown bears). At that time they never had an attack (but people who have lived with bears have been attacked)..They felt that the bear spray was more effective--and they carried that, plus one of the high powered rifles as noted above. They claimed since the Wardens and Rangers had started carrying the spray, they had not had to shoot one defensively--I think that may have changed in the last 20 years...

Bears are like Alligators in some ways. One of the most common worries I hear from new boaters in Florida, is fear of the alligators--we have them in the bayou of our back yard. You don't mess with Superman's cape--you don't mess with alligators and bears--but generally they want to go their own way! Don't avoid Alaska because there are bears. There are many places where bears freely roam about towns, and are accepted. But learn their habits. Learn when they can be dangerous, what the signs of aggression are, and the difference between a false bluff charge and a real charge (when your chance of survival is going to be low).

Don't miss the great experience of AK because of concern for bears--and do get off the boat! Walk the trails and logging roads--we find yelling "Hey Bear" is usually plenty to let them know you are there. Never had any bear bells! Amazing how some will just rise up--where you least expect!

Never forget how fast that bear can move--and be prepared if you have to use the spray...For me, when I realized I was in a potential situation--the spray left hand, (where I had practiced with it--and revolver in right..).
 
Mark makes a great point. I have been sprayed with military Cs gas and with police grade pepper spray about 10 times . Gas chamber was a every two year even when I served and the pepper spray was part of the prison guard training that I completed a while back. Point is I have been hit with both and have seen hundreds of people go thru the same thing. It all depends. I have seen men lick pepper spray off their skin and I have seen Marines lose their every loving shit at just a hint of Cs. I have heard that lighter skin is worse but I can tell you that skin color means nothing. Training helps a lot but some folks can not handle Cs or pepper spray even with it. I have seen a Capt in the Marines in the gas chamber smoking a cigar ( it may have been out and he was just chewing on it) for 10 mins . I have sung the Marine hem while in the chamber ( oh the games we play) while the Marine next to me dropped in place and curled in to a tear and snot cover ball that has to be dragged out and hosed off before getting on the pansy wagon for sick call. i can handle a direct hit from either but I'm not going to be very effective at anything until I get hosed off. It hurts, snot comes out of places I should not have snot and I can see much if anything but I can stand it and not freak out.

My point is it most likely the same for bears. One bear might run at the first sniff and another might use the rest of the can to wash you ass down his throat with. Every bear acts the same when you shoot it in the head with a large caliber.

My plan would include all of the above. Make noise so you dont surprise one, make more noise if he comes looking ( 45s or 12 ga make a lot of noise without carrying more gear ) bear spray before he gets to close and bang bang if he charges.
 
Thanks all. Type of replies I was looking for. Bob, no concern from me about going into Alaska, or bear country. Just want to be prepared and ready in case the need arises. I really have no desire to carry a gun. One less thing to worry about. I'm also aware of my aim. I'd have to scare the intended target with it, because I don't think I could hit the broadside of a barn door! lol. (During range practice in USCG training, with 10 bullets, my target had 4 holes, and my fellow recruit had 12. Who knows where the other 4 went... :shock: ) The newer studies also make sense to me. We're not talking about bears attacking from a long distance away, but rather one you just came up on and spooked. I can see why the training flicks speak about practicing getting your bear spray out of the holster and aimed and shot off. With only a few seconds to do so. I'm pretty sure the stuff I linked to at Amazon is ok in Canada. I've read about the bear bangers too, but they seem like they'd take more time to get off, and a loud air horn would be equivalent. Now, what about flare guns as another possible bear repellent? I know Jay (Hunky Dory) spoke of using one during a run in he and some kayakers had with a bear.
 
Colby, Agree, don't even consider a gun unless you are very proficient. Before we went to AK, I practiced a number of days at the range with the .44 mag. Not a gun for everyone, and I began shooting pistol matches in high school, when it was normal to have ROTC guns on campus. My philosophy is that if I pull a trigger I am going to try and kill an animal...But there is something to be said about "scaring"--my limited experience--noise works great with black bears.. Certainly a loud noise could ward off a charge--and be worth a try. .If a grizzly was charging--it would be spray from the hip, and then the left hand up to steady the gun, and since the bear leads with the head, a shot on the nose/mouth/ throat, would be the best chance of survival. Supposedly 90 to 95% effective on the spray.

A few seconds--you may not have--if you think there is a bear issue--that spray needs to be in your hand and pointed at the bears face. But a charge from a bear is going to be rare. A bluff perhaps a bit more often. For the most part the bears in SE AK are somewhat accustomed to seeing humans in the places you will be going.

I suspect the flare gun would be in the "scare" category. A flare gun is not a good weapon generally.

We did not buy two canisters at first--we kept the partial used canister in reserve--and when we went in the C Dory 25, we bought a single new canister. It is not something you are probably going to have to use. Sort of "insurance".
 
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