Bear Spray

westward":28nsd6kr said:
Peter and Judy:
Your point about the arrogance of choosing to enter bear country for pleasure, then possibly killing a bear for bear behavior, really got my attention.

Mike
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Mike, I have nothing but admiration for Peter & Judy for their past willingness to hike in grizzly bear territory without a defense of any kind ( I have done the same) & now doing so with only bear spray & bangers, but in their explanation of this, I didn’t get the indication, they thought others who chose to do so with a firearm were being arrogant in their attitude, instead more self deprecating by putting the life of a bear over their own if they chose to walk in what they have determined is land that belongs more to the bears then them. I’m fine with anyone who would rather die a “grizzly” death then kill one in self defense right up to & stopping at the point of their thinking, I should be willing to do the same & I may be wrong, but I didn’t get that from what Peter & Judy wrote.

Jay
 
Andy You ask a great question and to be clear we were not testing shot guns that day for use on bears, unless they are Russian.

I do not think a rifle is a good weapon for self defense against a bear, But that is my opinion . My friends that hunt bear do so with .300 win mags and .3o8 at 200 yards or more. the further the better really. My .300 is set up for 600 yards and under but that is for deer and elk, which I have not gotten yet. My area is true spike only and so far I have not seen one.

When would I shoot? at the last possible moment. Same as when I would use bear spray. I point of this issue is to survive a bear attack. If I can do that with out firing great. Noise, as has been stated is a great way to deter a bear. I have ran bears out of camp before with a frying pan. I think that " camp bears" In the sierras are a lot different questions then bears in the back country. Camp bears know the rules and play the game as they should. They are used to people and being ran off. Some people still get mauled and killed 20 since 2010 29 in the ten years before that ( just in the North america)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America#2010s
as I read threw this list the number that were dragged out of tents or homes is scary.

So your question of when do I shoot is not easy because its breaks down to " when do I shoot for what effect?" If you think that poppers are a good idea then I find it hard to understand that you would not also find a gun report not to be a good idea? Noise is noise. So firing a shot early to spook off the bear is a good idea to me just as a poppers or yelling is. But I am not going to do that unless the bear is working his way to me or showing a unhealthy interest in me. A bear grazing at a 50 yards is a photo op not a target. Unless I am hunting for bear I dont want to kill one and I have never hunted bear. Most of my hunting comes with feathers.

I dont have a set answer for you on how close I would shoot or spray a bear other then not until I have to but I think that for a fast charging bear 15-20 yards is reasonable. If you dont get him in the first shot you are only going to get maybe one more. Same with spray really. it only has maybe a 15 yard reach from what I have been told and read. I have never used it.
 
Regarding bear spray, the can say's it can spray 30 feet (10 yards), and the advice I've read says spray when the bear is 30-60 feet (10-20 yards) away. i.e. about the length of 2 cd22's bow to stern. If they can charge at 30 mph, that ain't much! Clean shorts don't come with the bear spray. Purchase those separately! :mrgreen:
 
Andy, Toms answer on when to shoot confirms my saying earlier that due to the repercussions & most all not wanting to kill a bear, we would probably error on the side of the bear, though if seeing one come fast like a gigantic enraged pit bull, possibly not. Your question is a hard one. If it’s a surprise full on charge that starts at approximately 50 yds or less, I’m quickly preparing to shoot & by the time I would be able to, the bear would most likely be at 25 yds or less & at that point if it’s still coming fast, I’m shooting. As Bob indicated earlier if the bear is coming at 30 mph & I make a knock down, break down or killing shot it would still be very close by the time it stops forward momentum & if a poor shot made then absolute minimum or not enough time for another. OTOH as my posted videos show, I have spent considerable time in areas where there were bears in the open not much over a 100 yds away. In this case I’m not going to be surprised, so if one starts working closer & retreating is an option, that would be 1st choice. If retreat not an option, then it’s a good time to start with bangers. If that didn’t work & it’s still a slow approach, I would consider spraying, especially if JoLee was with me & she could do the spraying, while I had the gun aimed. If its still advancing at this point, I’m shooting.

I’m interested in the opinion of Kushtaka on this, as he has the experience of stopping two bears.

Here’s a link to a bear spray article where the followings comments are worth reading. They just might make those who feel confident in the bear spray being not quite so much. Basically some point to the scientific study referenced earlier as having cherry picked data. They are worth reading to make self determination. https://gearjunkie.com/bear-spray-use-w ... techniques

Jay
 
Jay: different perceptions reading the same material? I took away the points that trigger-happy Americans were less than welcome in Canada, and that it was folly (arrogant, unwise, short-sighted, paranoid...you choose the term) for a human to choose to enter a protected species' habitat (particularly for recreation) with a backup safety plan of killing a member of that species. It is also hard to argue the point that countries with restrictive gun laws have significantly fewer gun deaths of all types. I suspect that much of our continued support of the 2nd Amendment is based on the theoretical ability to resist an oppressive government if need be, rather than any reasonable calculation of the social costs/benefits of widespread gun ownership?

Your earlier posts (about the "breakdown" sequence of slug shots, brain shots, how bison die differentially when shot on the range, delivered force, etc)., go way beyond a general desire for safety in bear country. I of course support your right to hold your views and to (lawfully and responsibly) carry your firearms, and I understand the fascination. But I can also reasonably see how certain attitudes and behaviors scare the hell out of those in the public at large who don't hold similar views and aren't fond of firearms. I still cringe when I see someone carrying openly at a restaurant or gas station even though I support their right to do so, if that makes any sense. I truly believe that if we as gun owners aren't able to reverse the perception that we are a bunch of "paranoid gun nuts" (what my wife calls me when I binge watch youtube gun videos), we may soon find ourselves entering a slippery slope of restrictive firearm regulations and eventual bans-not just in Canada but right here in the U.S.

Oh and did I mention: I prefer counter-assault bear spray?

:lol:
 
Tom":2bd3u0xj said:
... If you think that poppers are a good idea then I find it hard to understand that you would not also find a gun report not to be a good idea? Noise is noise. So firing a shot early to spook off the bear is a good idea to me just as a poppers or yelling is. But I am not going to do that unless the bear is working his way to me or showing a unhealthy interest in me. A bear grazing at a 50 yards is a photo op not a target. Unless I am hunting for bear I dont want to kill one and I have never hunted bear. Most of my hunting comes with feathers.

I dont have a set answer for you on how close I would shoot or spray a bear other then not until I have to but I think that for a fast charging bear 15-20 yards is reasonable. If you dont get him in the first shot you are only going to get maybe one more. Same with spray really. it only has maybe a 15 yard reach from what I have been told and read. I have never used it.
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I think the warning shot first, shooting of the bear last approach is what I would have to try with my short-barreled, pistol-grip 12 gauge pump. At least, that's always been my plan—either that, or use the gun on myself. I agree with you, Tom, about the limited accuracy of such a gun at a range of much more than 15 feet, but a load of triple ought in its face at that range might give me a chance for a second shot, with a rifled slug. Or should it be slug first, and then the buckshot?

Staying in the boat is starting to sound like the best idea of all.
 
westward":g3pqq2io said:
Jay: different perceptions reading the same material? I took away the points that trigger-happy Americans were less than welcome in Canada, and that it was folly (arrogant, unwise, short-sighted, paranoid...you choose the term) for a human to choose to enter a protected species' habitat (particularly for recreation) with a backup safety plan of killing a member of that species. It is also hard to argue the point that countries with restrictive gun laws have significantly fewer gun deaths of all types. I suspect that much of our continued support of the 2nd Amendment is based on the theoretical ability to resist an oppressive government if need be, rather than any reasonable calculation of the social costs/benefits of widespread gun ownership?

Your earlier posts (about the "breakdown" sequence of slug shots, brain shots, how bison die differentially when shot on the range, delivered force, etc)., go way beyond a general desire for safety in bear country. I of course support your right to hold your views and to (lawfully and responsibly) carry your firearms, and I understand the fascination. But I can also reasonably see how certain attitudes and behaviors scare the hell out of those in the public at large who don't hold similar views and aren't fond of firearms. I still cringe when I see someone carrying openly at a restaurant or gas station even though I support their right to do so, if that makes any sense. I truly believe that if we as gun owners aren't able to reverse the perception that we are a bunch of "paranoid gun nuts" (what my wife calls me when I binge watch youtube gun videos), we may soon find ourselves entering a slippery slope of restrictive firearm regulations and eventual bans-not just in Canada but right here in the U.S.

Oh and did I mention: I prefer counter-assault bear spray?

:lol:
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Mike, it’s the plains grizzly of Canada that is listed as endangered, which includess Alberta, Manitoba & Saskatchewan. In British Columbia they are listed as a special concern, though still can be hunted for meat & in the Yukon doing well & hunted, though they are going proactive to keep it that way. In Alaska they are not considered endangered or threatened & in the lower 48 listed as threatened, though they have made a major comeback here with their present range expanding. Only Peter & Judy live in an area were they are endangered with none of the other contributors to this discussion commenting on or even considering at this time carrying firearms for protection in an grizzly bear endangered area.

I’ve come to the boating world fairly late in my life & have over time learned enough, especially concerning remote area cruising to feel comfortable giving limited advice, but on the subjects discussed in this thread, I do have a lifetime of experience & feel comfortable sharing it. I long ago lost my fascination for firearms, but a lifetime of using them from a young boy, through soldier, law enforcement, hunting & now most only personal defense, makes for considerable knowledge of them. Hunting to me was a very small part of the wilderness experience, which is still my first love.

Jay
 
Not sure that link changes my mind at all. If I were hiking in a somewhat dense area of brush, I'd more than likely already have the bear spray out of it's holster or back pack, and would be carrying it in hand! :)
 
colbysmith":2mcfcp69 said:
Not sure that link changes my mind at all. If I were hiking in a somewhat dense area of brush, I'd more than likely already have the bear spray out of it's holster or back pack, and would be carrying it in hand! :)
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:thup Colby, Total agreement here. The bear spray was in hand when on land in bear country. The canned air horn was for use when the bear was farther away and looking interested. Bears don't see well, but hear good and smell better. An upwind encounter will generate curiosity much sooner than a downwind one.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

PLI_and_SB_CBGT_2_105.thumb.jpg
 
Colby, I’ve been reading through this and I think you should just skip the north country and stay at my place again. My guns are all locked up and I don’t have any spray stuff but I haven’t seen a bear around here for years.
 
Chest holsters are the way to go. Having spray or a gun in a pack is worthless. I understand your reluctance to border cross with a gun as times have changed. I have a fair amount of experiance with bears both AK browns and blacks in the 48. On thing to consider is spray in high "coastal" winds may be less than effective.

If you need a deterrent you will have about 2 to 3 second window to deploy it. They come in fast when they are behaving in a predatory way.

Bluff Charges are way more forgiving usually proceeded by jaw popping and woofs.

Sometimes waving your arms to warn a bear that you are there sparks interest in them and they bee-line right to you in order to figure out if your food or not. Still a good move in my opinion.
I really admire and respect bears and understanding bear behavior can minimize poor outcomes.

Sounds like a fun trip.

Cheers
 
Mike, tempting. I mean I've got that new crab ring thinking I would be able to use it. But think you only have a specified window of opportunity for it's use there as well! :mrgreen: Colby (P.s., Can you change my thread 's name "2018 Inland Passage", to "2019 Inside Passage"? Thanks.
 
hardee":spuapgch said:
colbysmith":spuapgch said:
Not sure that link changes my mind at all. If I were hiking in a somewhat dense area of brush, I'd more than likely already have the bear spray out of it's holster or back pack, and would be carrying it in hand! :)
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:thup Colby, Total agreement here. The bear spray was in hand when on land in bear country. The canned air horn was for use when the bear was farther away and looking interested. Bears don't see well, but hear good and smell better. An upwind encounter will generate curiosity much sooner than a downwind one.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

PLI_and_SB_CBGT_2_105.thumb.jpg
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Harvey & Colby, the reason I provided the link was not the information in the article although that was ok, but rather the comment section where there was a debate, a rather rude one about the scientific study of spray vs firearms referenced earlier in this thread. The debate I found interesting & informative even though one has to sift through unnecessary word play.

Harvey, studies now show bears can see as well as us.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?ad ... les_id=135

Jay
 
colbysmith":2g5ojlow said:
Can you change my thread 's name "2018 Inland Passage", to "2019 Inside Passage" Thanks.
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I can do that, but looking at the message it seems the trip is planned for this year. What, did the bears make you want to think about it a little longer?
 
smckean (Tosca)":3bv060ja said:
localboy":3bv060ja said:
But the world, alas, has lost it's way. Up is down. Black is white. Good is evil...
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Mark, I hope you don't mind me poking fun at you a little :wink: ........

I love politics.....it's my "blood sport" (I am uninterested in football, baseball, or any other team sport). As I pursue my "sport", I run into statements like yours above....sometimes from one end of the political spectrum and sometimes from the other end.

An image then often comes to my mind....(I just can't seem to shake it :wink: :lol:) ........

I see a person, clearly a very healthy and talented person, standing on their head. They exclaim: "What the hell, everyone is upside down."
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I am tough-skinned. You won't see me take offense. The only time I will go full on grizzly is when someone impugns my character or integrity.

Plus, I know I'm correct, so...
 
localboy":hlko4gp7 said:
Pandion":hlko4gp7 said:
localboy":hlko4gp7 said:
The only time I will go full on grizzly is when someone impugns my character or integrity.
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Can you be stopped with bear spray?
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Yes. But only after I inflict damage... :lol:


See page 1 of this thread re: pepper spray.
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Good to know, Mark. We'll stay in the boat when you're around.
 
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