Best Twin Engines for a CD22

E

El and Bill

New member
Ok, gang, here's another thread -- and for the same purpose as the one on Best Single/kicker Engine.

Since there are new engines recently released, what would you advise a new owner to buy for a set of twins for a CD-22. Remember, the discussion of twins vs single is a separate issue. Here, lets just advise the wannabes about the twin combo only. Also, let's try to give facts as much as possible -- costs, technical reasons why one engine is better than another, quality of service, availability of dealers, longevity of engine, etc. etc.
 
El & Bill,
OK, not an expert on outboard engines here, but after having the carbeurated 75 Honda on the 22, if I were ever to repower, I would probably go with a Yamaha fuel injected. Now we'll get into the debate of whether fuel injection is better/more reliable than carbeuration. Never ran a fuel injected outboard, but I've run snowmobiles with both carbeuration and fuel injection, and I will never buy one again that isn't fuel injected. Way less maintenance, fires right up from the beginning (even after sitting around all summer in storage) and runs much smoother than the carbeurated one. I would hope that if a two-stroke snowmobile can have technology like that, it would carry over to outboard technology too.

I'm sure Redfox would have something to say about the Yamahas over the Hondas. Down side on the Yamahas is the dealer network, although I believe it's slowly getting better.

That's just my $0.02 based on experiences with the Honda so far and having the experience of the fuel injection on my snowmobile. Fuel injection is far superior in my book and worth it.

Oh, by the way, nice to meet you legends finally at the Eastern Shore gathering. Hope to see you there again next year.

Jack
 
Nope... Joe and I already made the choice .clear on the other thread ya started ... :xtongue hehehe .. . I gotta get ... poof :bat
 
Salty Dog":1n7puos5 said:
El & Bill,
but after having the carbeurated 75 Honda on the 22, if I were ever to repower, I would probably go with a Yamaha fuel injected. Now we'll get into the debate of whether fuel injection is better/more reliable than carbeuration. Never ran a fuel injected outboard, but I've run snowmobiles with both carbeuration and fuel injection, and I will never buy one again that isn't fuel injected. Way less maintenance, fires right up from the beginning (even after sitting around all summer in storage) and runs much smoother than the carbeurated one. I would hope that if a two-stroke snowmobile can have technology like that, it would carry over to outboard technology too.

I'm sure Redfox would have something to say about the Yamahas over the Hondas. Down side on the Yamahas is the dealer network, although I believe it's slowly getting better.

That's just my $0.02 based on experiences with the Honda so far and having the experience of the fuel injection on my snowmobile. Fuel injection is far superior in my book and worth it.

Jack
Click to expand...

You got it :idea true every word :star I'll be back... :wink
 
Currently, I'd go with the twin Yamaha F50 EFI for all the reasons I listed on the 40's or 50's Honda thread. Once you've had a fuel injected outboard there's no reason to go back to carburetors and their low tech starting and fuel consuming habits. The EFI brings with it a whole new ballgame of electronic computerized engine control in fuel supply, ignition timing, and monitoring / read out to the operator and technican that puts carburetors in their place in the "old school museum".

Yes, you can't work on the system yourself, but most of us don't want to work on our own carburetors anyway! In the meantime, the engine starts better, runs better, saves gas, and pollutes less with EFI. Sooner or later, all medium and large sized outboards will have to have EFI to meet EPA standards.

Would you buy a new car, SUV, or truck with a carburetor? Joe.
 
Bill,

I'd pick whatever color you like best! I've had and/or run all of the current ones, and there just isn't a bad engine in the group. EFI vs carbs? Who knows. I'm currently running EFI, had a Yami EFI, and have several thousand hours on 4-stroke carbs. Better mileage with EFI? I didn't get any -- and haven't seen any documented significant difference. Yami has a stronger dealer network in AK, and Honda's dealer setup is better (IMO) in the lower 48. Parts for Yami are slower for some reason in this area (EQ was a Yami Service Center).

I'm a "beta tester" now for a new EFI engine - so far very, very good - but 2000 or so hours down the road I don't have a clue. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the major brands.

The last time I looked in the back room at EQ, boats rigging and waiting for delivery included a Yami 100, 2 Johnson 90 E-Tecs,two Honda 90s, a single Honda 135, twin Honda 135s, and a Honda 150.

Doubt very much you could, or would want to, get on plane with a single 50 of any brand if the other one died. If you did you'd be pushing the engine pretty hard.

Good luck, and come visit!

Dusty
 
I do not undersand the theory about having to push your boat with 1 -50 or 40 with only one motor working would harm it. To me it all in the tork , what is the difference going 100 miles at 4000 RPM on two engines or going back home on only 1 at 3800 or even 4000 RPM. Have you ever tried to come back 10 miles out on choppy water with your kicker only at full trottle so you could steer your boat straight. I did, NO fun.
 
I do not undersand the theory about having to push your boat with 1 -50 or 40 with only one motor working would harm it. To me it all in the tork , what is the difference going 100 miles at 4000 RPM on two engines or going back home on only 1 at 3800 or even 4000 RPM. Have you ever tried to come back 10 miles out on choppy water with your kicker only at full trottle so you could steer your boat straight. I did, NO fun.
 
Hi El and Bill,

Here is my two bits on repowering. Take a look at the Mercury 4 stroke 50 hp with the Bigfoot lower unit. Yes I may be biased because we sell them, but they are a wonderful engine. There is some shared powerhead arcitecture with the Yamaha (joint venture) but the rest of the engine is all Mercury. Totally built in the USA for now, and serviced by 5000 dealers across the country. The Bigfoot lower unit is from the 75-125 range of engines so you will be hard pressed to wear it out. It offers a lot more beef if you strike flotsam (lots here in Missouri).

The drawbacks would be weight (268 lbs each) and more gearcase in the water (drag). The engine will turn a 14" diameter prop which translates into great traction on the water. A single on a 16 works great. These engines are primarily sold for pontoon/workboat applications and do not run as fast as the smaller gearcase versions, but most C-Dorys do not run more than 35 mph so I consider that a mute point.

One last thing to consider is the engine is Smartcraft compatible and for about $300 per engine you can install a monitor that will read fuel burn rate etc... Just go to www.mercury.com to get a better idea.

Best wishes, Randy.
 
Dodge Ram
When an outboard is correctly propped, it will reach the specified maximum rpm (usually 5,000-6,000)with the throttle wide open. If the prop has too much pitch the engine will 'lug' and not achieve the max rpm.

If you try to use only one motor of a pair, that motor will 'lug down' and not achieve its max rpm and can overheat. It's like driving a car uphill in high gear.

Two motors share the load 1/2 each, so when they are propped to run as twins(both running), the prop pitch will be greater than if you were to prop one motor to run by itself.

To correctly operate on one motor, you need a spare prop which is the correct pitch for the motor running by itself. Such a 'single engine prop' would have less pitch (by 1 or 2 or 3 inches), and you would need to change propellers on the water.

I hope this explanation helps, if not, keep asking questions.
 
Thank you Larry very good explanation. With only about 25 hrs on my motors I am still trying different props , when I found the right one's I will take your advice and get one that will work for single motor operation. I look into RING PROP in october the will have them available for my 50's, anybody as any opinion those? Gary
 
Gary-

The Ringprop is designed to minimize injury to persons by shielding the outer prop edges. It won't entirely stop them as the front of the blades are still exposed. You'll pay a penalty for the extra surface area of the ring in terms of drag, rpm, and speed. The ideal speed/power prop for your engine(s) will not have a ring around the blade tips. Best idea is to shut off the engine or at least stay out of gear with anyone in the water, but that's not really practical with watersports like skiing, wakeboading, etc. A jet drive is a better choice for those who must do rescue work around people in the water. Life is made up of a bunch of hard choices! I'd put a Ringprop on all of my rental outboard boats at a resort. Joe.
 
One must hang on to their equipment to realize the superiority of EFI. From a person that does not "try them all" and is on their 5th season with zero EFI (summer and winter mind you!) problems, (2000 115 Yamaha Fourstroke) take it from me: they are more reliable and don't take any of your $$ or time like carbs.
Suzuki is great up here in AK also. I'd be tempted (by the sounds of it on this thread) to go 'Suzy or Merc for four-strokes, if I did not care about "purpose-built engines I'd go Suzy; I like the extra displacment of them :thup But I digress... I still prefer belt-drive over chain-drive.

Larry, good explanation (I thought I did a pretty good job, but i guess not :embarrased ) I have even heard "lugging an outboard (or any engine for that matter) "beats the pistons out of an engine" makes sense when ya think about it :idea:
 
Greg,

Yes, 'lugging' an engine does 'pound the pistons'. The fuel burns at the same rate but the pistons are harder to move due to the 'extra' load. This increases the pressure in the combustion chamber and is harder on the pistons, rings, and bearings.

Another way to look at it is that 'lugging' is like hitting the piston with a hammer as opposed to 'pushing' the piston to get it to move. The 'hammer' works and the piston moves, but eventually pounds a hole in the piston.
 
My new boat has new twin Honda 40s. Well and good. They are darn cute back there. I guess I like the specs of the Yamaha 50s the best. If I had bought a bare boat I likely would have gotten twin Mercs just for the local dealer, five miles versus fifty miles, etc. I do hear the Yamie controls are better than the Merc controls tho, is this so. This is a fun exercise. When I was shopping I had a spreasheet with all of the specs for all of the motors.

I did this even though I believe:
1. Choose according to who your dealer will be.
2. Choose according to what pleases you, the differences aren't that great.

I ended up buying what was available on a new boat at a good price.

Now that I have the Hondas I have to seek that Honda positive reinforcement. I don't think Bill and El's motors owe them a nickle (although I hope they get a lot on trade, etc.). But what if they buy the Yamies and something goes wrong. Wouldn't they always be second guessing? So my completely non scientific recomendation is to buy the Honda 50s. This goes against the logical wisdom of the 40s being a bettter Dory choice than the 50s but it gives them something different. So they have the trusted companionship of their old friend the Hondas, but something new in the 50s instead of 40s. They would smile when looking astern. Then after a year we ask them if they can tell the difference.
 
RingProp technology is the result of a 15 years research program. RingProp has no exposed blade tips , generating more thrust, reduced ' and blow-out' and torque-streer giving marked improvement in overall performance and maneuverability. These result in superior handling, with increased strength and stiffness to the blades.( According to the company). Is there any body out there that had try one or no of some one using them. Gary
 
Good information, folks -- thanks. We're doing some dealer talking and pricing while chugging along the Erie Canal on our single 40. Yamaha 50 four cyl looks better than Honda 40 3 cyl, but would require new controls, etc. Fortunately, our remaining 'friend' is giving us lots of time to consider. Interesting -- seems as though both Honda 40's and 50's and Yamaha 50's are in short supply now -- apparently inventory is low due to more folks buying than they had expected -- maybe because of higher fuel prices, folks are switching to smaller engines???
 
E&B: Could be also; you see so many conversions on boats from an inboard to bracketed-outboard/s gawd I'm glad I don't own an inboard :!:

Anythin on the horizon for Honda competing (or catching-up!) with the big and bad Yami 50s ?
 
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