Bilge Pump Operation

M

MOOSE

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Messages
624
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C Dory Year
2001
C Dory Model
22 Cruiser
Hull Identification Number
CD022963D101
Vessel Name
MOOSE
The MOOSE has the Rule Platinum 1100 bilge pump located in a sump on the starboard side under the cabin bulkhead. We have noticed that even with the sump flooded, the pump will discharge only a short burst when switched from “Off” to “On/Auto”. But by continuing to toggle the switch, the sump and cockpit floor can, more or less, be evacuated. Am I missing something here, or is something other than me on the fritz? I’ll appreciate any insight you may provide.
Thanks,
Al
 
I had the same problems with the Rule on Anna Leigh. In fact I have a second pump at the transom. Those pumps are supposed to cycle on on a low speed and if the circuitry detects an amperage draw because it IS pumping water it kicks into full speed. But if it only pumps out a good healthy blast and then leaves more water it isn't doing what it is supposed to do. What really irratated me was the constant cycling of the pumps every ten minutes or so when it checked for water. When on, and if there was enough water where they should have stayed on and just pumped it all out, they did the same thing you are experiencing. I had them both changed out with float type pumps with a three way switch on the helm. Off/On/or On with with the float controlling.

If a bilge pump has to be toggled to evacuate water there is definitly something wrong. If there is that much water in there I want a pump that will pump until it is all gone.
 
I couldn't figure this one out either on the True Story. I could get the pump to work every once in a while if there was a lot of water in the cockpit. I also took exception to having everyone stand on the starboard side to completely drain the cockpit. So, I installed a redundant pump aft as David has and I feel better. I suppose my next step is to replace the factory pump if in fact, I'm not missing something.

I did have a question for you mechanically inclined persons. Three times now, I have noticed water on the cabin floor and haven't been able to determine the source. I have been able to rule out the water tank and I have noticed two similar conditions present. One, the weather was crappy (wind and rain) and two, I was fishing. So, water is either spilling over the bilge pump sump and into the cabin when leaning over the starboard gunnel or, and here comes my question...... the water is coming in through the pump discharge hose when leaning over the gunnel. Is this possible? If it is, I could probably install a new, longer discharge hose and configure a vertical bend in order to gain a few inches of freeboard if you will. Thanks in advance for your help. Tim
 
On Snoopy-C, my pump discharge would allow water in when rough water splashed against the discharge hole. I ran the discharge barb fitting up, and place a "U" fitting so that water would pump up above the discharge, through the "U" to go out. This helped, but still didn't drain the cockpit. I solved that by placing a primary pump between the tanks, near the drain hole. That solved the problem.

However, water in the cabin could come from another source.....leakage from the Wallas exhaust port, if it is in the vicinity of the level that the pump discharge level is. The corrugated exhaust pipe might be allowing water to come inside the cabin, if the port does not have the attaching fitting pointed upright. That is why I chose to put in a Wallas heater (1300) instead of the Wallas stove/heater. My exhaust is up through the roof, instead of through the side of the hull. Ron
 
I have had the same problem in rough water. My problem is the bilge sump is not completly empty and the pounding allows the remaining water to slosh over and into the cabin. I also have added a second pump aft to help this problem.
 
I had water leaking around the drain plug in the bulkhead below the door to the cabin. The flange was not properly sealed to the bulkhead and any time the water in the cockpit sloshed against the plug a little dribble entered the cockpit. Took a lot of time to find this one and not much to fix it.
 
Well, I just got off the phone with a technical representative from Rule, so here’s the straight scoop on bilge pumps. Essentially what he told me was that the Rule 1100 Platinum pumps do not like air (pardon the anthropocentrism). So they’ll kick on, sense some entrained air around the impeller, which is interpreted as low resistance (i.e. – no water), and then they’ll shut off. As a replacement, he recommended their Rule Mate model, which is also a centrifugal, high capacity pump, but one with an internal float switch and circuitry which forces it to run for a longer period once activated, thereby evacuating any remaining water in the sump or any that flows back down the discharge tube. He recommended one of their three-position switches, either model 41, 43, or 45, to enable ‘off’, ‘manual’, or ‘automatic’ (float switch) operation. This sounds like what David on Anna Leigh has. Hmmm, seems like I just got a WM discount coupon…….
Al
 
Thanks Moose for looking into the bilge pump problem. Always looking for a good reason to dump another $100 at WM. Thanks also to the rest of you for responding to the potential sources of my "cabin water". Tim
 
Yep, I've had the same problem on occasion. Thanks for the research. Is the pump installed by C-Dory or the dealer? Would be nice to have the right pump from the beginning.
 
Tim, water in the cabin seems to accumulate from a myriad of ways. I had water accumulating on the cabin floor in rainy weather and it was significant. What I found was a couple of very small "pinhole" size spots on the port side of the hull , under the dinette table, and just under where the rub rail is on the exterior of the side of the hull. In the rain water was coming thru these holes (seemingly just a trickle but it accumulated surprisingly fast), ran down the inside of the hull, pooling of course on the floor. Sikkaflex on those pinholes solved the problem. In my case, masking off the hull and rub rail and running a very fine bead of Sikkaflex or silicone along the top of the rub rail, though probably not necessary, would in order as well.
 
This has been discussed in the past but I haven't seen it mentioned in this section. Another possibility causing the water on the floor, which happened to MacNaughty and others is from the chain and anchor rope locker area. In heavy seas on MacNaughty the water was entering into the locker via the water drain exit. But since the locker was not sealed properly, water was draining into the foamed in areas under the v-berths and eventually to the cabin floor. The factory resealed the locker and replaced the wet foam at no charge. This may not be your problem but it is the only leak source that I have had.

MacNaughty III
 
Greetings, Tim - coming at you from Snoqualmie today! There is another explanation for water in the cabin, it may not be your issue but was mine. I also thought the water in the center aisle in the cabin might be coming from the water tank or the bilge pump hose, but it turned out to be coming in the fitting from which I had removed the drain hose for the useless icebox that I removed. Once I plugged this fitting (glued a tire stem cap over the fitting inside) the problem was solved and Daydream is once again dry on the inside...if you took the icebox out and removed the drain hose, definitely check this out...


True Story":by2sjl7k said:
I did have a question for you mechanically inclined persons. Three times now, I have noticed water on the cabin floor and haven't been able to determine the source. I have been able to rule out the water tank and I have noticed two similar conditions present. One, the weather was crappy (wind and rain) and two, I was fishing. So, water is either spilling over the bilge pump sump and into the cabin when leaning over the starboard gunnel or, and here comes my question...... the water is coming in through the pump discharge hose when leaning over the gunnel. Is this possible? If it is, I could probably install a new, longer discharge hose and configure a vertical bend in order to gain a few inches of freeboard if you will. Thanks in advance for your help. Tim
Click to expand...
 
I had mystery water in my cabin as well. We had a rainstorm here in Kirkland a few months ago. I had my boat sitting out uncovered, and ended up with about two inches of water on the floor of the cabin. Yes, I know I'm a moron.

For about the next week, water would intermittently drain out of the front area under the v-berth, depending on the angle of the boat. My boat is an '87 so some of your guys with the new fancier boats might not have to be concerned about this. :-)

Anyway, just a suggestion. It was a little mysterious.
 
Regarding the water from unknown sources. Last Saturday we took the R-Matey down to the C-Dory plant in Kent because we had water in the cabin :( Not a lot but enough that it was aggravating. It appears that our problem was caused from leaking in the forward flotation compartment and from several screw holes on the stem guard located under the anchor locker. Joe picked up the boat today and we're very pleased with the service that we received. The folks at C-Dory are good and conscientious. They didn't hesitate to take care of our problem :D

Ruth & Joe
R-Matey
 
For those to far away to run to the factory, I solved the problem the following way: got a tube package of JB Weld and mixed it, and a tube of marine sealant. Mixed the JB Weld and applied the full length of the guard pressing the weld into the seams on both sides, then sealed the screws. Once dried, came back with the sealant over that. I beach the boat a lot on all kinds of surfaces -- no problems.

CDT16.jpg
 
We have an '03 with the midline bilge pump. Like others, it would kick-on every ten minutes or so just to see if there was water present. A safety item I suppose, but bothersome.

Given the heavy stern trim of most C-Dory's I don't think the midship location of the pump is a very good idea. In an emergency, we would be carrying a LOT of water before the pump ever started! I decided to install a second, float activated pump aft, near the bilge plug. After that installation was complete I disabled the "automatic" feature of the Rule 1000(?). Disabling it was easier than I thought. As I recall, there are three wires for the pump (mine are located in the starboard lazarette). It was the brown wire that controlled the automatic feature. Remove the inline blade fuse, and presto, no more automatic (but the pump still works fine by the helm switch).

Regarding the water leaking from holes drill too deep on the keel - hopefully, that problem has been fixed (at the factory) on new boats. We bought "Naknek" back when that problem was being discovered. Les recommended NOT getting a brass keel strip, but installing a "KeelGuard" strip (heavy duty rubber in matching color...) along the keel. Fantastic idea! There are NO holes, the bow is now protected with a product that is actually mad to facilitate beaching! Very convenient for Lake Powell, etc.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek
 
Due to the feedback on the Rule 1100 with the timer, we switched to the rule 1100 with the built in float switch several months ago. For 2005 we also offer the aft bilge pump as a factory option. Thank you for all of your input.

Jeff
 
Just out of interest - for those of us who do have the "fully automatic" Rule 1100's AND who leave them switched on continuously (because we're moored or have to park faced downhill), how long has your's lasted? I replaced my first one after about 2 years and will be replacing the 2nd one after a similar period of time. This time I'm going with the one with the built in float switch both to avoid the every 5-10 min noise while sleeping and in the hopes that it lasts a little longer. Also, just a reminder to all to occasionally (like maybe every trip) test the bilge pump - especially those who travel with pets on board. I'm always cleaning pooch hair out of the strainer to keep the thing operating properly.

Finally, on reviewing the topic above about water in the cabin - I thought I'd mention my experience with "mystery water" on the floor. I too had occasional water on the floor and after re-sealing all the obvious areas, still didn't get rid of the problem. Eventually, I spent the evening on board in a heavy rain to trace the source down. I turned out to be the seal around the fill tube for the fresh water system. At rest in the rain, a small puddle gathers near the fill tube on the port side as there is a rise in the fiberglass there to keep water from running into the cockpit. If the fill tube isn't sealed properly, water runs inside behind the port/aft bench seat (where it can't be seen easily) and the trickles out from under the seat into the cabin floor.

Roger on the SeaDNA
 
Roger-

My "fully automatic" Rule bilge pump lasted just about the same amount of time-2 years- until the brain went dead. I then performed a "digital chip lobotomy" and removed the electronic brain and glued the cover back on and put it back to work as a manual back up.

The idea behind it sounds nice, until you find out it drives you crazy cycling on and off, day and night! Had to keep it turned off when aboard unless it was raining or underway. Wouldn't be any more irritating if it went "Coo-Coo" like the clock, or gave you the Woody Woodpecker Song every few minutes.

After a while, you want to hunt it down and kill it with the fish-knocker and throw it's dead body overboard after ripping out the wiring! Sorry Dr. Rule/Mr. Jabsco, you're Frankenstein Project met an untimely death!!! Joe.
 
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