after reading some of these notes now i'm not sure we're doing the right thing. we bought a new 22 and keep it in a slip for 6 month season upper chesaeake so we knew we would have to paint.. the dealer immediately recommended they sand , 2 coats barrier then 2 coats bottom paint, not sure what kind. i have been reading in boat us cat.the specs there say at least 3 coats of barrier 10-12 mil total required. i wouldn't think that a c-dory dealership would void any hull warranty???? did anyone else have this service done at cutter marine?
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Bottom Paint Dilemma
- Thread starter Casey
- Start date
over a period of time, if you don't bottom paint a boat that spends a lot of time in the water, the hull gelcoat will stain. Not bad, just enough to show. Especially in the little nicks and scratches. I always used Micron on the sailboats. It is a pain. It used to be about $600-$700 for a round trip in the yard and the application of the paint. After I sanded and cleaned it. And in oregon and washington you can easily find divers around marinas that come in and scrub your hull occasionally at your request. Some even take reservations for periodic inspection and scrubbing, replacement of zincs and stuff like that. I have left boats in the water for a month or so unpainted and always regretted it. Hard to clean it all off. I used to leave the saltwater and go into fresh for a week or so during the summer to get everything to die off then go down and wipe off what I could. Going either direction accomplishes the same thing. Critters die and fall off when out of their habitat.
Pete in NY
New member
Cap Vic,
I don't think your bottom treatment is an issue nor should it void your hull warranty if professionally performed by your C-Dory dealer. I don't know C-dory's warranty about blistering if sanded. I don't think there have been any blistered hulls to my knowledge mentioned on here.
My earlier post about sanding was just a caution to the do it yourselfers who might just sand the gel coat and paint without knowing they may be creating a later problem for themselves. Sanding and barrier coating should be good before bottom painting.
If you want to know what product the dealer applied, ask them and then go to the product manufacturer's web site to read the application instructions for yourself. Not all barrier coats are the same and the West catalog one may not be the same as on your boat.
Have fun on your new boat.
Pete
I don't think your bottom treatment is an issue nor should it void your hull warranty if professionally performed by your C-Dory dealer. I don't know C-dory's warranty about blistering if sanded. I don't think there have been any blistered hulls to my knowledge mentioned on here.
My earlier post about sanding was just a caution to the do it yourselfers who might just sand the gel coat and paint without knowing they may be creating a later problem for themselves. Sanding and barrier coating should be good before bottom painting.
If you want to know what product the dealer applied, ask them and then go to the product manufacturer's web site to read the application instructions for yourself. Not all barrier coats are the same and the West catalog one may not be the same as on your boat.
Have fun on your new boat.
Pete
Hi Folks,
First, I tape the waterline with the blue masking tape.
At this time, I use the cheapest bottom paint I can find, on sale,at West Marine. A gallon is good for a few years. I block up the trailer at four to six points, crawl under and sand everything I can touch (of course wearing old clothes, goggles, hat, mask, etc.). I then paint what I have sanded. I then jack up one side at a time, putting a couple of blocks between boat and trailer, sand what I had missed, and paint it, I then do the next side. Works very well. During the summer, I bring her in close to the beach, and clean the bottom with a brush and scraper. I usually get a bit of growth along the waterline, which comes off easily with a brush, and a find a few barnacles on the bottom, which can be flicked off with a scraper or putty knife.
Works very well, and cheap. (I AM a cheap Yankee.) By the way, I am 66 years old. Good exercise, and I am VERY CAREFUL.
Fred Heap
First, I tape the waterline with the blue masking tape.
At this time, I use the cheapest bottom paint I can find, on sale,at West Marine. A gallon is good for a few years. I block up the trailer at four to six points, crawl under and sand everything I can touch (of course wearing old clothes, goggles, hat, mask, etc.). I then paint what I have sanded. I then jack up one side at a time, putting a couple of blocks between boat and trailer, sand what I had missed, and paint it, I then do the next side. Works very well. During the summer, I bring her in close to the beach, and clean the bottom with a brush and scraper. I usually get a bit of growth along the waterline, which comes off easily with a brush, and a find a few barnacles on the bottom, which can be flicked off with a scraper or putty knife.
Works very well, and cheap. (I AM a cheap Yankee.) By the way, I am 66 years old. Good exercise, and I am VERY CAREFUL.
Fred Heap
Got a PM the other day regarding this product:
VS721 BOTTOM WAX - High Performance Bottom Wax. Contains VS721TM Fouling Release Barrier.
• Protects against Algae, Zebra Mussels and Barnacles.
• For Power, Sail, Trailered, Aluminum & Pontoon Boats.
• Seals surface against Osmosis Blisters
• Improves Speed, Reduces Fuel Consumption (1 to 10 mph on power
boats) (¼ to ½ knot on sail boats)
• Perfectly Clear. Beautiful Shine.
• Apply to Fiberglass, Aluminum & Hard Painted Surfaces
• Apply to Drives, Struts, Trim Tabs, Shafts, etc
• Race Proven to Increase Performance.
You can go to the website: http://auroramarine.com/
Very interesting product. Does anyone have any personal experience with this product?
John
Swee' Pea
VS721 BOTTOM WAX - High Performance Bottom Wax. Contains VS721TM Fouling Release Barrier.
• Protects against Algae, Zebra Mussels and Barnacles.
• For Power, Sail, Trailered, Aluminum & Pontoon Boats.
• Seals surface against Osmosis Blisters
• Improves Speed, Reduces Fuel Consumption (1 to 10 mph on power
boats) (¼ to ½ knot on sail boats)
• Perfectly Clear. Beautiful Shine.
• Apply to Fiberglass, Aluminum & Hard Painted Surfaces
• Apply to Drives, Struts, Trim Tabs, Shafts, etc
• Race Proven to Increase Performance.
You can go to the website: http://auroramarine.com/
Very interesting product. Does anyone have any personal experience with this product?
John
Swee' Pea
Hi.... Well, as I had mentioned, I used a similar wax product for many years on many boats. At times, when I could not afford to repaint the bottom on my old houseboat, the wax worked well. Racing MORC in the Gulf, the wax seemed to give an edge, esp. on low wind. I am planning to use this wax on my new Ranger in lieu of bottom paint. Some in areas of Zebra mussels around here use the wax up into their intake and drain openings to make it easier to wash out the little critters.
Good topic! John
Good topic! John
Captains Cat
New member
"At times, when I could not afford to repaint the bottom on my old houseboat, the wax worked well. Racing MORC in the Gulf, the wax seemed to give an edge, esp. on low wind. "
Wow, there's a real boater! Racing a houseboat! :shock: :lol: :lol: I know houseboats have a lot of windage but that's real dedication!! :wink
You ROCK John!!
Charlie
Wow, there's a real boater! Racing a houseboat! :shock: :lol: :lol: I know houseboats have a lot of windage but that's real dedication!! :wink
You ROCK John!!
Charlie
The only time the Houseboat sailed was when it was at anchor!!! We have high winds all the time here.
btw.... I am not saying ppl who keep their boats in the ocean all the time should use a wax coating. I am just saying it seems to work for a month or two at a time in the ocean, or seasonal use in inland lakes.
When I did use bottom paint, I used Micron... I think it was CSC, a chalky coating. It was an ablative type (wore off with using the boat) type. Our marina advised against power washing the ablative type bottom paints. Here, we just let the hull and debris dry off, then lightly sweep or brush the debris off. Power washing removes more paint than you need to on ablative types.
Also, ablative types seem to be the best for areas with alot of slime. Just driving the boat makes to stuff drop off.
JOhn
btw.... I am not saying ppl who keep their boats in the ocean all the time should use a wax coating. I am just saying it seems to work for a month or two at a time in the ocean, or seasonal use in inland lakes.
When I did use bottom paint, I used Micron... I think it was CSC, a chalky coating. It was an ablative type (wore off with using the boat) type. Our marina advised against power washing the ablative type bottom paints. Here, we just let the hull and debris dry off, then lightly sweep or brush the debris off. Power washing removes more paint than you need to on ablative types.
Also, ablative types seem to be the best for areas with alot of slime. Just driving the boat makes to stuff drop off.
JOhn
More to the point, only sailboats were raced......
Also, I read on the Air Dock site that inboards with props like the C-Ranger Tugs had to have the engine shut off and then be dragged up over the lift. also that they had to be pushed FOUR FEET off the lift before starting the engine.
Another thing I am wondering is about using sea water intakes while over the Air Dock, even if it is deflated. Could the plastic be drawn up and block a seawater intake?
THe site also said you needed to put a protective shield over the Air Dock where any protrusions, such as thru-the -hull transducers could damage the Air Dock.
John
Also, I read on the Air Dock site that inboards with props like the C-Ranger Tugs had to have the engine shut off and then be dragged up over the lift. also that they had to be pushed FOUR FEET off the lift before starting the engine.
Another thing I am wondering is about using sea water intakes while over the Air Dock, even if it is deflated. Could the plastic be drawn up and block a seawater intake?
THe site also said you needed to put a protective shield over the Air Dock where any protrusions, such as thru-the -hull transducers could damage the Air Dock.
John
The advertising copy (text) for this product certainly does make it seem like a panacea! But, alas, its duration is short lived compared with good bottom paint, and its use more generic, since bottom paint type can be choosen for the particular type of water (salt, fresh, brackish), and growth organisms found in the area to be used by the boat.
Nonetheless, this wax approach to hull fouling would be a good one for short term mooring, such as up to 2-4 weeks or so during an extended vacation period. I hope we suggested this to the last poster who was looking for such an alternative!
This approach is particularly advantageous in that it avoids the commitment to bottom paint which involves starting down a no-turning-back path. Sanding the bottom, applying several barrier coats of epoxy, and then applying the requisiste anti-fouling paint coats are a serious set of steps that can cost $1000-$2000 for the first application and then be followed by a yearly follow-up repaint bill of $400-$700. Then too, the boat may then be harder to re-sell to those living in areas where such paint is not required.
The really good side to this that these wax-based anti-fouling coatings will probably get better and better with continued development. Maybe someday we can finally get rid of bottom paints and go with them alone!
Joe
Nonetheless, this wax approach to hull fouling would be a good one for short term mooring, such as up to 2-4 weeks or so during an extended vacation period. I hope we suggested this to the last poster who was looking for such an alternative!
This approach is particularly advantageous in that it avoids the commitment to bottom paint which involves starting down a no-turning-back path. Sanding the bottom, applying several barrier coats of epoxy, and then applying the requisiste anti-fouling paint coats are a serious set of steps that can cost $1000-$2000 for the first application and then be followed by a yearly follow-up repaint bill of $400-$700. Then too, the boat may then be harder to re-sell to those living in areas where such paint is not required.
The really good side to this that these wax-based anti-fouling coatings will probably get better and better with continued development. Maybe someday we can finally get rid of bottom paints and go with them alone!
Joe
I plan to ask some questions before using the VS721 BOTTOM WAX. You can join their discussion on thier web site. If the stuff works like they say it does, it is certainly worth the effort. The down side to their product is that the boat becomes "super slippery". They caution you about trailering without properly securing (a precaution we should take anyway) and caution regarding launching the boat. It will slide off the trailer very easily. Must be careful not to disengage the bow strap. Again, not a big deal. The only question I have is - what effect does the wax have on the gel coat in the long term if you don't want to use the stuff anymore? I think you have to use a special chemical to get the coating off.
Still, if this product does what it says it will do, it may be just the ticket in the right circumstances.
What I would like to have addressed is one of you experienced Brats doing a picture essay on using a jack and stands and lifting your boat off the trailer so waxing or painting or whatever can be done off the bunk or roller trailer. So how about it, chaps? (I'm one of those learners that needs to see what you are talking about)
John
Swee Pea
Still, if this product does what it says it will do, it may be just the ticket in the right circumstances.
What I would like to have addressed is one of you experienced Brats doing a picture essay on using a jack and stands and lifting your boat off the trailer so waxing or painting or whatever can be done off the bunk or roller trailer. So how about it, chaps? (I'm one of those learners that needs to see what you are talking about)
John
Swee Pea
Swee..... there is a "soft" almost liquid wax, not requiring buffing, that leaves a dull finish and washes off easily with car wash. West Marine has that on their site. That is the type I have used the most. I think it is not popular cause it looks a bit like you smeared diluted 'snot' on the hull, but it is relatively cheap, goes on without hard work (just spread on), and sprays off without physical scrubbing.
I don't think it would last as long as a person might need in high fouling areas, but I used it in the Gulf of Mexico and hot, high slime lakes around here. That is the one with which I have the most experience.
Like I said, tho, it does not look shiny and slime/moss stick to it unless you drive around alot. I usually put it 5-6 inches above the waterline in the aft areas to allow easy cleaning... of course, under the waterline everywhere else.
JOhn
I don't think it would last as long as a person might need in high fouling areas, but I used it in the Gulf of Mexico and hot, high slime lakes around here. That is the one with which I have the most experience.
Like I said, tho, it does not look shiny and slime/moss stick to it unless you drive around alot. I usually put it 5-6 inches above the waterline in the aft areas to allow easy cleaning... of course, under the waterline everywhere else.
JOhn
Overton's has a 'tub' of vaseline like wax for $14.99 for 20 foot of boat that works well. It does not look good in that is kind of traps or holds the algae, etc., but most falls off upon use. Two tubs would be needed for most C-Dories other than the 16 footer, I would think. You just spread it on, let it dry and use the boat. They do warn of a slippery bottom on the bunks. I think it is called "Super Slick".
John
John
Has anyone else tried VS-721 Boat Wax from Aurora? I have and unfortunately it was a total disaster. I used it exactly as directed by Aurora, even used 2 other products of theirs (Boat Scrub and Boat Clean Plus) to prep the bottom for the wax. After 3 weeks at our slip on the Piankatank River just off the Chesapeake (and almost daily use of the boat), I pulled out our new TomCat 255 to discover the hull was covered with thousands of barnacles. I was able to power wash off the upper portion of the barnacles but the "cement foundation" portion is very difficult to remove. I called Aurora and they suggested that a wet towel would remove this crap. I tried this with no luck. I'm now removing small sections at a time with a barnacle/zebra mussell remover with hydrochloric acid from Starbrite. We are losing weeks of boating time to this mess. I now have a very hard time believing the claims made by Aurora on their website about the wonders of VS-721 wax. The only positive thing I can say is that it did help with launching the TomCat by allowing it to slide off the bunks more easily.
Brock
Brock
I rarely get time to wiegh in but having just put three heavy coats of Micron Extra on the Tonie O this thread is of interest. One gallon gave me the three coats and this is my third painting (about $60 per coat). This stuff has worked well for me and I have the boat in salt water all year except a couple of weeks. I've repainted every two years. I'd like to know what you do Casey - you have the best maintained 22 I've seen.
Shawn
Shawn
For your future plans as you describe I would absolutely bottom paint, but first I'd have several coats of epoxy barrier coat put on. A reputable vendor will remove any existing wax; abrade the bottom to give the gelcoat some "teeth" to mechanically accept a coating; repair any surface damage, etc.; apply up to 6 coats of high quality epoxy barrier coat; then finish with 2 coats of Micron CSC, Petit Trinidad, etc. per your specs. The area surrounding your outboard motor mount will be done in a different paint (usually white in color and I forget the product's name) that doesn't contain copper. If the skeg of your outboard is like mine and doesn't clear the water in the up position they can hit it with the non-copper product as well. If you plan to bottom paint in the future then don't wax that part any more as it will compromise adhesion of the epoxy. The epoxy reduces/eliminates the porosity of your hull bottom to help keep the core dry. I would also recommend having a sumbrella cockpit cover made if it's in the budget to keep the cockpit free of water. I wish you well in your future cruising. Cheers! Mike.
Hi Folks,
I believe in the KISS principle when it comes to bottom paint. I use the cheapest bottom paint that West Marine sells, and buy it on sale when I can.
I block up the trailer, jack up the side, but a block between the boat and trailer, sand what I can get at, and paint it. I always paint around the sides of the boat.
Last year, I never got around to painting the bottom. Nothing grew. The stuff lasts longer than the manufacturers want us to think.
During the summer, I check the bottom, and brush anything that starts to grow.
Works for me.
Fred
I believe in the KISS principle when it comes to bottom paint. I use the cheapest bottom paint that West Marine sells, and buy it on sale when I can.
I block up the trailer, jack up the side, but a block between the boat and trailer, sand what I can get at, and paint it. I always paint around the sides of the boat.
Last year, I never got around to painting the bottom. Nothing grew. The stuff lasts longer than the manufacturers want us to think.
During the summer, I check the bottom, and brush anything that starts to grow.
Works for me.
Fred
journey on
New member
Just got through painting the bottom of journey on. Put on 4 coats of Interprotect 2000 (3 gal) and two coats of Micron CSC (1 and 1/4 gal.)
Jacked tho boat up, and to get access to the bottom disassembled the trailer. It was a bear of a job, jacking worse than painting. Any suggestions as how to get at the bottom of a CD25?
Having left an inflatable in the Chesapeake for a week, and spending several hours degrowthing it, I can sympathize with Brock. The Chesapeake is not the place to try something new (or cheap.)
Boris
Jacked tho boat up, and to get access to the bottom disassembled the trailer. It was a bear of a job, jacking worse than painting. Any suggestions as how to get at the bottom of a CD25?
Having left an inflatable in the Chesapeake for a week, and spending several hours degrowthing it, I can sympathize with Brock. The Chesapeake is not the place to try something new (or cheap.)
Boris
Hi
I just put our boat back in the water three days ago after hauling her out and re painting the bottom and replacing the zincs on my trim tabs. I keep her in the water year round. Its not much of a problem to repaint the bottom. I did pay the local yard to paint our boat the first time because they had to get all of the factory mold release off. The guys at the boat yard laughed when I asked how many coats I should put on. Why waste the paint they said. Since I haul every year I just put one coat on and it works fine. Maybe on a sailboat that had ablative paints more coats would be better but I think for a c-dory more coat just waste money. I also use the cheapest west marine paint they have.
I just put our boat back in the water three days ago after hauling her out and re painting the bottom and replacing the zincs on my trim tabs. I keep her in the water year round. Its not much of a problem to repaint the bottom. I did pay the local yard to paint our boat the first time because they had to get all of the factory mold release off. The guys at the boat yard laughed when I asked how many coats I should put on. Why waste the paint they said. Since I haul every year I just put one coat on and it works fine. Maybe on a sailboat that had ablative paints more coats would be better but I think for a c-dory more coat just waste money. I also use the cheapest west marine paint they have.