Bottom paint on new boat

C

commander bill

New member
New R25 tug on order. Had planned on barrier coat & bottom caot before delivery (late january 08). While reading BoatUS forum I noted comments about light sanding used during typical process as voiding hull warrenty. I called local Marina in Tennessee. They apply bottom paint frequently and yes they believe it voids warrenty. Is this true? sounds like a catch 22.

Marina also asked me why I was considering barrier coat on new hull. Marina owner said that was a waste. He would only apply bottom paint
 
commander bill":3swss1q6 said:
New R25 tug on order. Had planned on barrier coat & bottom caot before delivery (late january 08). While reading BoatUS forum I noted comments about light sanding used during typical process as voiding hull warrenty. I called local Marina in Tennessee. They apply bottom paint frequently and yes they believe it voids warrenty. Is this true? sounds like a catch 22.

Marina also asked me why I was considering barrier coat on new hull. Marina owner said that was a waste. He would only apply bottom paint
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commander bill-

Very good questions!

IMHO, you're best bet is to talk to Ranger Tugs directly regarding the warranty issue and whether sanding the gelcoat is necessary.

I went though much the same kind of question with my C-Dory. No issue about the warranty with an older boat, but the marina yard wouldn't paint the bottom with anti-fouling paint w/o the barrier coat which requires sanding. I didn't really want to sand the gelcoat, thinking it unnecessary if the hull were washed properly with solvents to remove any wax, and wanted to preserve the gelcoat's integrity.

The yard's insistence on sanding and applying the barrier coat stems, I believe, from their own desire to protect themselves from a possible comeback if the boat were to blister. I shuddered at the idea of some guy with minimal or no understanding of all the principles involved and at the bottom of the pecking order around the shop, doing the work, lying on his back on a creeper with a big belt sander with 80 grit going 200 mph!!! (belt speed, not creeper speed!)

I would definitely find out if and what anti-fouling paints there are that could be applied w/o sanding. Remember that anti-fouling paint selection depends a great deal on the location the boat is used and moored, and varies greatly with fresh/salt water, temperature, and the fouling organisms anticipated. The locals usually know best through practical experience!

Also, when you call the factory, ask if they would apply a suitable paint that would survive the transport to you (time and agitation on the trailer), and still assure their warranty if they say the other local preparation where you are will void it.

You're right about the Catch-22 nature of this situation! It's a great name for a CD-22, but I think, unfortunately, it's taken!

On the other hand, I do know there are at least 3 or more Hunky Dorys around!

Keep us posted!

Joe. :teeth
 
Last I heard C Dory (not Ranger) did recommend light sanding. I would not apply epoxy barrier coat, without dewaxing (using dewaxing solvents specifically designed for this)--and without light hand sanding. This is not a belt sander or removal of any gel coat, just scratching it, after the dewaxing. I also would not keep a boat in the water full time without a barrier coat.

It may be that up North, they don't see much blistering because the boats dry out during the winter. But it can and does occur. There is no guarantee that a layer of vinlyester resin will prevent blistering.

Certainly do what Ranger says to do...but don't let the marina talk you out of doing a proper job. Be sure that the marina does it correctly.
 
Just for the sake of info. My Ranger had bottom paint when it came from the factory. Seems to be a hard finish type bottom paint. Must be be anti fouling paint, as I have had nothing growing on it in salt water or fresh. If they put it on It can not effect the warranty.
captd
 
Small correction on Andrew's address:
andrewcustis@rangertugs.com
On my Ranger the bottom coat was put on by the dealer, not the factory. Had a choice of hard for trailered boats or soft for water moored boats. Most boats now don't need a special barrier coat. The quality of fiberglass improved a lot in recent years. I nearly lost my 1980 San Juan 24 to blisters. It had to be sand-blasted and refinished. Same thing happened to my brother's Bystedt 30. The late '70s and early '80s were the worst years for hull blistering. There were very few problems before or after those years that I am aware of. I believe that it was a change in chemistry that caused the problem.
 
There was a peroid from 1975 to the early 1980 era when Uniflite had changed the fire retardant Hetron from a source other than Dupont. These boats had severe blistering--probably the worse blistering which we have seen. Many of these boats had not only topside hull blistering, but also deck and trunk cabin blistering--bromine in the fire retardant was the cause.

However boats did have blistering in the 30's thru now--not just in the 75 to 80 era. Blistering still occurs--and it can occure in new boats (unfortunately). Boat building is about making a profit, and the cheaper polyester resins are more likely to be used in boat construction. (Vinlyester resin is more resistant to water permeability than polyester--and epoxy is more resistant than vinlyester.) Many builders are using a single or even several layers of vinlyester (and other higher quality resins) on the outside, but limited because of the costs. I have seen boats only a few months old develope blisters.

Pascoe has a piece about the blistering history--and his thoughts.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/moreonblisters.html.htm

Incidently, sand blasting a boat's bottom is a very bad idea. It drives material into the laminate, exposes the ends of the mat fibers, and drives sand grains into the lamiante. Peeling with carbide planer type of blades is a much better technology--then routing out with carbide bits, any residual blisters, and rebuilding the laminate with concentric circles and epoxy--plus either building the hull bottom surface with either epoxy (and filler) or a layer or two of cloth and epoxy, if the damage is deep.

You pays your money and takes your choice. I would much rather prevent blisters than repair them.
 
My new 22' Cruiser will be kept on Lake WA, venturing into the salt water these first months for C-Brats events.
If I understand, the common thought is all of our boats need the bottom paint if we go in salt water, correct?

Now for the sanding question...is there a warranty question with the factory if a brand new boat is sanded?
And is there one specific coating that most all Brats use?
Do most people do two coats?

I hope to pick up the boat Friday Nov. 30th, so need to decide what to do!

Thanks,
BaseCampAnne
 
Basecampanne:

Fresh water, because of its lower osmolaity, is even more prone to causing blisters than salt water. If your boat is going to be kept in the water most of the time, it does not matter whether the water is fresh or salt. The hull needs both blister protection as well as prevention of marine growth.

You may want to start here..

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ttom+paint
 
My original concern was that my dealer is on Gulf Coast & the boat yard he would use for bottom paint might not use proper paint for my intended location (boat will spend next 3 years in Tennessee river - cool & fresh water & boat out of water extended periods each winter). After visiting local boat yard in Tennessee & watching the minimum wage guy power-sand hulls I decided that they would not do any work for me. Price quoted by my dealer on coast was higher but I trust him far more. I discussed warrenty question with him & he is sensitive to concern & trying to get some sort of official position from Ranger Boats. Meanwhile I am convinced I still need to apply barrier coat & bottom paint.
 
You might want to ask around the local marina on the Tennessee River to see what bottom paint is holding up the best and have Marc put that on your boat. We have Found that Trinidad SR works very well in our area of the Gulf coast. One of my boats stays in the water full time, and has only a minmal amount of growth after 3 years. The dock is in fresh water, but the bay is brackish and the ICW and gulf are salt.
 
Thanks,
I had already asked locally in Tennessee & they recommended Interlux Micron CSC on Tennessee river. Marc said that was a good choice. I intended to keep boat at a slip on Watts bar lake in Tennessee for about 6-7 months & on my trailer on my farm in North Alabama during winter. My understanded is that not all paints can be removed from water for extended periods but Interlux is supposed to be acceptable.
 
commander bill" said said:
My understanded is that not all paints can be removed from water for extended periods but Interlux is supposed to be acceptable.
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Which is very true, but some Interlux can not last out of the water. csc I believe you can.
captd
 
Micron CSC is an excellent choice and will do well with the on the trailer storage. Have them put on different colors in the coats, so you can see how it wears. You can touch it up if necessary. You should get a number of seasons with this application.
 
I found growth on the hull of my new R21 EC almost immediately down here in Texas. I couldn't leave the boat in the water even a couple of weeks without having really nasty accumulations. I had a local marina apply the paint and they said to expect five years on the job. They also said that short (less than 4 months) trips to salt water would not be a problem.
 
Texas Steve":3mr5garg said:
I found growth on the hull of my new R21 EC almost immediately down here in Texas. I couldn't leave the boat in the water even a couple of weeks without having really nasty accumulations. I had a local marina apply the paint and they said to expect five years on the job. They also said that short (less than 4 months) trips to salt water would not be a problem.
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I've never heard of or seen a boat that could stay in the water 5 years without a repaint. The longest I have ever seen was two seasons and that was with occasional power washing to clean off the slime.

Different paints are used in different areas. In my experience in cold New England I used the highest cuprous oxide paint I can find. Pettit Unepoxy has served me well. Compare the price of paints with low cuprous oxide vs. those with a high concentration and you will see a huge difference in price.
 
There are multiple factors which impact the rapidity of marine growth on the boat bottom. These include various chemcials in the water, temperature of the water, the amount of use of the boat etc. I have 3 years on a boat I keep on the bayou on the back of my house--it is in fresh water, and the boat run in brackish to salt water. If I was running it more, I probably would have less growth--but I will pressure wash it some time this winter, and expect that I will probably get another year or so of growth. Our pilings have very little growth (could be something to do with the paper mill which is up Perdido bay's dumping toxins into the bay! ) There was a railroad bridge over the entrance to this bayou, and the pilings are still there, as are some of the pilings used to raft up logs during the hayday of timber--over 100 years ago, which have no growth on them. They were most likely treated, but still this is a very long time.
 
NOT THAT ANYONE HAS ASKED, BUT HERE'S WHAT FRY'S MY POSTERIOR.
ANTI-FOULING PAINT NEED NOT BE APPLIED TO EVERY BOAT. NO PROBLEM, SOME DON'T LIKE THE LOOK AND SOME BOATS ARE NOT USED IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHICH WOULD REQUIRING IT.
NOW, BOATS LEFT IN BOTH SALT WATER AND FRESH WATER ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO BLISTERING. (MINE WAS AND DID. $2800. FIXED MY PROBLEM).
SO, BACK TO THE POSTERIOR THING, WHY WOULD YOU SUPPOSE THE MANUFACTURES NOT TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO APPLY A BARRIER COAT TO THEIR PRODUCT WHEN THEY KNOW WELL THAT THEIR PRODUCT IS NOT SUFFICIENT AS MANUFACTURE, FOR WATER USE.
WHY WOULD THEY NOT DEVELOPE A FIBERGLASS PRODUCT THAT COULD WITHSTAND THE HARSH ENVIRONMENT IT IS DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN?
IT'S LIKE BUYING A CAR AND AFTER THE DEAL IS CONSUMMATED, THE DEALER SAYS, BUY THE WAY, YOUR CAR HAS RIMS BUT IF YOU WANT TO DRIVE IT YOU BETTER BY FOUR TIRES. SURE, YOU COULD DRIVE IT ON THE RIMS, BUT IT WONT LAST LONG.
WELL, JUST MY TWO CENTS!
PAT
PS LOOKS LIKE I'M STILL BITTER OVER THAT BLISTER THING, ONLY TOOK SEVEN MONTHS IN THE WATER.
 
Capt. Pat----
Couldn't agree more. In the last 30 or so years I have owned seven boats with frp hulls. All were kept in the same waters. Only one developed blisters. Go figure. The procedure I used to correct that problem was crude and harsh but it was the only cure available 25 to 30 years ago, but it worked. That boat is still sailing trouble free to this day. Most people know what went wrong back then, so there is no excuse not to build a trouble free hull.
 
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