Harvey, I found the brass strip offered near the same as no protection when hitting a rock at very low speed on one of our early Alaska cruises. The brass strip bent to the side & a holding screw broke off. I ended up removing the strip & filling the holes & covering the area with Keelguard. In my opinion the brass looks good, the keelguard actually protects. I felt much more comfortable beaching the boat using the bow after installing the Keelquard.
Bottom Paint
- Thread starter jritsema
- Start date
Harvey, the paint seems to do fine on the brass (bronze?) strip. I painted the large boat thru hulls for many years--only problem was when I converted one head from manual to electric--and I had some electrolysis with paint bubbling. Put a switch in the negative line and solved that problem. This was with copper containing paints.
Are you going to paint the keel guard? (Keelguard says that can be done) I have not had one. Saw one which was starting to come off--have seen several which were holding up fine.
I agree that hitting a rock with the brass strip, would cause damage..I didn't take my boat boat to on rocks--just on sand.
I have used the hydro coat and baby diaper rash ointments on large props--with fair results.
For the motor and transducer there are "transducer" paints sold. I have also used a very light coat of vivid. Right now on my downscan/chirp transducer --no paint.
On my son's 25 we put a downscan/sidescan/chirp transducer--and he already had bottom paint. We put a light coat of bottom paint--he is keeping the boat in Dana Point and has a diver monthly clean and check the bottom.
Boris, yes a thick coat or several coats of bottom paint may slightly attenuate the signal. But with my Cal 46, I had a depth sounder transducer sitting inside the hull in the keel sump--the bottom is almost an inch thick of fiberglass there, and there were 3 coats of bottom paint. I still held the bottom at 600 feet--which was the limit of that depth sounder.
Airmar (makes most all of the transducers) states that you should only use water based bottom paints: Specifically MDR, Woolsey, Pettit, and Sea Hawk
Are you going to paint the keel guard? (Keelguard says that can be done) I have not had one. Saw one which was starting to come off--have seen several which were holding up fine.
I agree that hitting a rock with the brass strip, would cause damage..I didn't take my boat boat to on rocks--just on sand.
I have used the hydro coat and baby diaper rash ointments on large props--with fair results.
For the motor and transducer there are "transducer" paints sold. I have also used a very light coat of vivid. Right now on my downscan/chirp transducer --no paint.
On my son's 25 we put a downscan/sidescan/chirp transducer--and he already had bottom paint. We put a light coat of bottom paint--he is keeping the boat in Dana Point and has a diver monthly clean and check the bottom.
Boris, yes a thick coat or several coats of bottom paint may slightly attenuate the signal. But with my Cal 46, I had a depth sounder transducer sitting inside the hull in the keel sump--the bottom is almost an inch thick of fiberglass there, and there were 3 coats of bottom paint. I still held the bottom at 600 feet--which was the limit of that depth sounder.
Airmar (makes most all of the transducers) states that you should only use water based bottom paints: Specifically MDR, Woolsey, Pettit, and Sea Hawk
Don't think I would paint the Keel Guard, but not sure about attaching it (gluing) to the bottom paint. Might question the adhesion of that process. Might put the keel Guard on then paint right up to its edges all around.
Good question. I will as Bitter End about that, as getting rid of the brass strip on C-Dorys has been their recommended practice and replacing with KeelGuard.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Good question. I will as Bitter End about that, as getting rid of the brass strip on C-Dorys has been their recommended practice and replacing with KeelGuard.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Jessie at Bitter end response:
Pull the brass rail, fill the screw holes, then put on the Keel Guard. Paint up to the edges of the KG because the paint will not stick well to it and it will not adhere well to the bottom paint. The Epoxy barrier coat would go on before applying the Keel Guard, and after the holes are filled.
he would apply Sea Hawk paint, but does not think it looks as good after 2 years as the Vivid will.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Pull the brass rail, fill the screw holes, then put on the Keel Guard. Paint up to the edges of the KG because the paint will not stick well to it and it will not adhere well to the bottom paint. The Epoxy barrier coat would go on before applying the Keel Guard, and after the holes are filled.
he would apply Sea Hawk paint, but does not think it looks as good after 2 years as the Vivid will.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Bob, I wasn't trying to beach it on rock, though I've been surprised by hidden rocks in the sand, where I was planning to beach & feel more comfortable with Keelquard going onto a new beach that looks ok, but hard sometimes to tell for sure. I damaged the brass, while maneuvering in shallow water. The contact when made was barely noticeable in the boat & down low enough that I didn't see the damage until the boat was back on the trailer & then very surprised at how bad it was.
Jay
Jay
I checked my records & the brass keel guard damage was possibly done in 2007, when trying to go to shore at Waterfall Cove, Slocum Arm of Khaz Bay. I've been back to that Bay quite a few times since & it has a decent small gravel beach, so I could have hit a rock when still out a bit on the approach. To long ago to remember exactly how, as I didn't think the hit was hard enough to do damage at the time & really don't know for sure if it occurred there or later on the cruise when making contact with ice in Tracy Arm of Holkham Bay.
When we had the Cal 46, we carried a 12 1/2 foot RIB as a dinghy. I took it regularly ashore, often on rock beaches, at least 3 times a day--(not much mass--about 375 lbs boat, motor, fuel, battery, with out crew and dogs). . I did touch "softly"--and tried to avoid sharp rocks or barnacles because of the inflatable tubes. I put a couple of extra layers of glass and epoxy on the bottom contact areas; it was faired in, with high density filler, then coated with the aluminum flakes, mixed with epoxy. Next we put a hard bottom paint over this. At the end of each season, I evaluated how much "damage" was done--not much--and usually would sand off the bottom paint, touch it up with high density filler, and coat with the epoxy and Al flakes,, or maybe one more layer of 6 ounce glass--faired. (I had done this same prep on a hard 10 foot dinghy we carried on our European trip). That boat had a SS strip on a teak keel, which started about 3 feet from the forward waterline.
It might be interesting to see how that approach would compare with the keel guard. Not sure that the Keel Guard would be appropriate for a smaller RIB. The entry on the RIB was not a sharp as the C Dory 22.
It might be interesting to see how that approach would compare with the keel guard. Not sure that the Keel Guard would be appropriate for a smaller RIB. The entry on the RIB was not a sharp as the C Dory 22.
I asked earlier in the thread about Sea Hawk paints. One of the recommendations that came from my research at the SBS was for Sea Hawk Biocop TF Dual-Biocide for anitfouling and Tuff Stuff epoxy primer.
One shop told me they use the Pettit Vivid becasue it "Looks better after a couple of years". When asked about whether it functions better than other paints, the comment was that they all work about the same. There is a fairly significant difference in prices from some brands, so I have to think there must be some difference in efficacy. Does anyone have any experience with Sea Hawk paints and if so, would you use them again? Why, or why not?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
One shop told me they use the Pettit Vivid becasue it "Looks better after a couple of years". When asked about whether it functions better than other paints, the comment was that they all work about the same. There is a fairly significant difference in prices from some brands, so I have to think there must be some difference in efficacy. Does anyone have any experience with Sea Hawk paints and if so, would you use them again? Why, or why not?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
After a discussion with a paint supplier at a local marine boat works store, I was almost convinced to switch products and go with a "hard" bottom paint as opposed to an ablative or "soft" paint. In researching the new idea I found this article in "Practical Sailor". Not being a member, I couldn't pursue several articles they showed in their index on bottom paint but this was very enlightening.
After talking with as paint supplier for the local “pros” in the Port Townsend area I was pointed to a “hard” bottom paint (like Trinidad Pro that has a 65% copper content). The idea of a hard paint, higher copper content, and thinking that would last form longer, or more seasons sounded good to me until I started looking up the differences between hard and soft. Here is what I found on the Practical Sailer site:
Now I am going around again. Why would I put this on if I have to sand it before I launch if it is more than a few days between boat trips?
I'm almost back to thinking I might not paint. Is it TMI or am I jsut to slow in making a decision?
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
After talking with as paint supplier for the local “pros” in the Port Townsend area I was pointed to a “hard” bottom paint (like Trinidad Pro that has a 65% copper content). The idea of a hard paint, higher copper content, and thinking that would last form longer, or more seasons sounded good to me until I started looking up the differences between hard and soft. Here is what I found on the Practical Sailer site:
Now I am going around again. Why would I put this on if I have to sand it before I launch if it is more than a few days between boat trips?
I'm almost back to thinking I might not paint. Is it TMI or am I jsut to slow in making a decision?
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
gulfcoast john
New member
Harvey,
I'd say 40% A and 55% B, and 5% thinking too hard about whether it's A vs. B.
None of us want you to blow a circuit due to thinking too hard.
Lucky for me, that is never an issue on anything.
Happy Boating!
John
I'd say 40% A and 55% B, and 5% thinking too hard about whether it's A vs. B.
None of us want you to blow a circuit due to thinking too hard.
Lucky for me, that is never an issue on anything.
Happy Boating!
John
Harvey,
I am with John here! You are way overthinking this. Plus, I believe that copper bottom paints are not allowed in Washington State.
Add in, I am getting dizzy since there are two threads on this subject!
Paint it with ablative and be done--any one which suits your fancy--you have had good recommendation with the Hydro Coat--go for it!
I am with John here! You are way overthinking this. Plus, I believe that copper bottom paints are not allowed in Washington State.
Add in, I am getting dizzy since there are two threads on this subject!
Paint it with ablative and be done--any one which suits your fancy--you have had good recommendation with the Hydro Coat--go for it!
journey on
New member
I'll ask the question: why would anyone use a hard paint on a C-Dory?
We had hard bottom paint on Our Journey, a 36' sailboat we kept in the water. We shipped it from Calif to Alabama. On arrival, the hard bottom paint had cracked and started peeling. We painted over it with more hard paint, but eventually sandblasted the bottom, epoxy coated it and repainted the bottom. And I found out that if you always keep it in the water, you have to sandblast the old paint off every few years.
Now that we have a C-Dory which on a trailer we have to use ablative paint because that's the only paint which will survive being out of the water. And in addition I don't have to completely strip the bottom every few years.
I only get 2 years out of a coat of paint, using the boat a total of 3 mos a year. I'm putting on a new coat of Pettit Hydrocoat. Used Micron 66.
Boris
We had hard bottom paint on Our Journey, a 36' sailboat we kept in the water. We shipped it from Calif to Alabama. On arrival, the hard bottom paint had cracked and started peeling. We painted over it with more hard paint, but eventually sandblasted the bottom, epoxy coated it and repainted the bottom. And I found out that if you always keep it in the water, you have to sandblast the old paint off every few years.
Now that we have a C-Dory which on a trailer we have to use ablative paint because that's the only paint which will survive being out of the water. And in addition I don't have to completely strip the bottom every few years.
I only get 2 years out of a coat of paint, using the boat a total of 3 mos a year. I'm putting on a new coat of Pettit Hydrocoat. Used Micron 66.
Boris
Hypothetically, if a Bottom paint (ablative) is done in Mar of 2017 and the boat doesn't go into the water for 2 years (until Mar 2019, would that paint still be effective, or would it need refreshing ( sanding or repainting) before it goes into the water? Could a boat be painted now, not go into the water for 2 years and then go for another 2 years in the water without repainting?
In reality, if I paint my boat this spring and it only gets a week in the water at a time here and there for this next year, is the clock still running on/to the expiration of the paints effectiveness?
Explanation: Something may have come up to preclude me from being in the water more than a week or 2 (max) this year. Maybe I should hold off on the bottom paint until the beginning of next season.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
In reality, if I paint my boat this spring and it only gets a week in the water at a time here and there for this next year, is the clock still running on/to the expiration of the paints effectiveness?
Explanation: Something may have come up to preclude me from being in the water more than a week or 2 (max) this year. Maybe I should hold off on the bottom paint until the beginning of next season.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
If you are not going to have much time to use the boat, you should delay getting the bottom paint. But ablative paint sitting for years will almost as good.
My son's boat sat for a number of years in the desert--and the bottom paint seems to be doing fine in S. Calif. I am now over 4 years on the Caracal, and it is still fine, but lift or trailer kept most of the time. I can leave it in water for weeks and no fouling.
My son's boat sat for a number of years in the desert--and the bottom paint seems to be doing fine in S. Calif. I am now over 4 years on the Caracal, and it is still fine, but lift or trailer kept most of the time. I can leave it in water for weeks and no fouling.
The boat's bottom is all painted. They used hard paint, I don't recall what brand, but he said it was the best fit for our waters.
Quite a bit of the old paint from the last two jobs sloughed off with the pressure wash but he said is was worth trying to paint over the exposed glass with just a quick clean up rather than a complete refinish of the hull. It was $723 total instead of a couple thousand for a complete prep and paint.
Here's a pic of the boat on the haul out. The tarp looking things on the aft of the cabin are to protect the boat when the crab pots hanging on the davit are swung inboard. Ugly but highly effective.
If you are bored and want to waste some time, here is a video of it going back in the water.
https://www.facebook.com/mike.barber.18 ... =3&theater
Quite a bit of the old paint from the last two jobs sloughed off with the pressure wash but he said is was worth trying to paint over the exposed glass with just a quick clean up rather than a complete refinish of the hull. It was $723 total instead of a couple thousand for a complete prep and paint.
Here's a pic of the boat on the haul out. The tarp looking things on the aft of the cabin are to protect the boat when the crab pots hanging on the davit are swung inboard. Ugly but highly effective.
If you are bored and want to waste some time, here is a video of it going back in the water.
https://www.facebook.com/mike.barber.18 ... =3&theater
colbysmith
Active member
Resurrecting this thread, as I plan to repaint C-Traveler's bottom this summer. It already has bottom paint, but peeling and cosmetically doesn't look nice. Over the next few days, weeks, or months, I will hit the bottom good with a pressure washer and try to get all the old flaky stuff off, and maybe more. I've already decided that I will likely use Pettit's Hydrocoat, and of course the blue color. John made it seem pretty easy to do, so I'm thinking about asking him to come on out to Wisconsin and I'll show him to our local lakes, while he takes breaks from painting my boat's bottom. I see that Hydrocoat comes in two types now days. A copper based and a non-copper based (which is about twice as expensive.) Any recommendations on which base would do the best job of keeping crustaceans at bay? TIA. Colby
gulfcoast john
New member
Colby,
I don’t do blue, or pink.
Although seeking ‘local boaters opinion’ is often advised, even though you go all over I believe Pettit Hydrocoat would be a good widely praised option to try.
It’s 40% copper. In our cruising it’s been much more effective against hard growth than Hydrocoat-ECO. The ECO version has no copper or other metals that could eat away at an aluminum engine bracket or aluminum outboard lower unit.
In theory, one could have an epoxy base barrier coat on an aluminum bracket or outdrive and then use a copper based bottom coat over the epoxy. However, a deep scratch that exposed some aluminum could start a galvanic corrosion mess, so I wouldn’t consider it. We get lots of dings and scratches from various misadventures in 166 locks and innumerable docks and concrete town walls.
Jay noted that he chose Pettit ECO to be more environmentally friendly in freshwater lakes that supply drinking water.
There are some very good crustaceans...lobsters, shrimp, and prawns come to mind.
Good luck!
John
I don’t do blue, or pink.
Although seeking ‘local boaters opinion’ is often advised, even though you go all over I believe Pettit Hydrocoat would be a good widely praised option to try.
It’s 40% copper. In our cruising it’s been much more effective against hard growth than Hydrocoat-ECO. The ECO version has no copper or other metals that could eat away at an aluminum engine bracket or aluminum outboard lower unit.
In theory, one could have an epoxy base barrier coat on an aluminum bracket or outdrive and then use a copper based bottom coat over the epoxy. However, a deep scratch that exposed some aluminum could start a galvanic corrosion mess, so I wouldn’t consider it. We get lots of dings and scratches from various misadventures in 166 locks and innumerable docks and concrete town walls.
Jay noted that he chose Pettit ECO to be more environmentally friendly in freshwater lakes that supply drinking water.
There are some very good crustaceans...lobsters, shrimp, and prawns come to mind.
Good luck!
John