Bought used trailer, trying to refit for cd22.

C

cemiii

New member
Based on a recent incident with my marginally adequate 4100# single axle roller-EZ, I went out and bought an over adequate used tandem 6000# aluminum bunk EZ........ with a manual 2 speed winch and now I've got some refitting to do before the cd swap.

It is my thought to refit the two 4" 10 foot long aluminum bunks at 62" outside to outside so that hopefully they will pretty much fit just slightly inside the lip at the bottom edges of the hull. I will then add low 8' long side guide rails that will pretty much ensure that she always centers inside those lips.

My biggest question is the big gap in the middle, 54", should I be considering adding 2 more bunks closer to center? Or are just the outside bunks sufficient? If 2 more is a good idea, at what width? These bunks would also need to be 10' long to bridge the two 3 1/8" galvanized steel cross members. At that length I suspect if I used wood they would be fairly spongy in the middle unless they were also made of metal? Might it suffice to just add two rollers back near the transom maybe a foot apart to leave room for the keel and to help support the heaviest part of the boat?

My second question is measuring the side rail width at just above the top of the bottom color, I'm roughly estimating a width of 72". It's not an easy measurement, so, recognizing that there will be some final adjusting required, if anyone with particularly well fitting side boards might be so kind as to measure theirs the next time the boat is off it would be very much appreciated.

I'd love to know and get some other ideas how the pros set up their bunks for a 22.

Thank you, Chris
 
Consider that boats in lifts or slings are only supported at limited points. The side of the hulls are more like and "I" beam, and there is little direct weight on the floor--except at the transom--which does need to be supported well.

There is more motion and vibration in a trailer than on a lift--but I agree with your assesment of wooden bunks--which are normally supported at more frequent intervals than the long aluminum bunk.

One of my concerns is that you have only 10 foot bunk boards--and if you put these from the transom, this leaves 12 feet of the boat poorly supported--unless you put several keel rollers to support this foreward part of the boat.

The side guides may have to be custom made--I looked at stock ones for my CD 25 and the Aluminum trailer frame is wider/deeper than the galvanized/painted frames, which may trailers use--and thus the off the shelf brackets for the side guides are not the correct size. I do like the side guide bunks--and agree that they make centering the boat easier.
 
I was planning at least one forward keel support and I think there is some forward support or at least some forward stabilization from the bow stop.

What really sold me on trying this swap is that the unladen weight of the 6000# aluminum trailer is listed as 500# vs. the 1000# on the steel 4100. Gain an axle and 50% more load and lose 500#, that sounds good to me, even if the aluminums are a bit bouncier.

Even if that weight differential is a stretch in reality, it should help a bit with trailering weight and road mpg (maybe even double digit mpg).

I am thinking about making my own side rails. The outside of the Alum. I beams is 74" (5.5 x3.5). with say 4 pices of 3/8x6x18 aluminum and 4 3/8x6x8 backers, to bolt to the I-beams, all I'm thinking I need is about 1" of bend in the longer piece to be able bolt an 8' composite (trex type) board on each side. I'm still working on the logistics of that one.

I've also got those darned plastic fenders on there and I'm wondering if maybe bridging the two wells with a carpeted board would help spread weight and aid slipping. In fact, I'm wondering if maybe a 2x8 carpeted on the inside edge might not be added to the top of the wheel wells to act as its own centering side guide with enough lateral supprt to center the trailer in a wind? Just a thought. Wouldn't want that to break off on the freeway.

Chris
 
I find myself looking at the same dillema .We have a 07 galv single axcel trl with drum brakes . so for safety sake I think a tandem might be a better option for me. For the cd-22 this was very adequite (4100lb)but for the cc-23 its not.We will be putting this trl up for sale and hopefully buying a alum down here in fl.
Thataway what size is your trl for your 25 you said it weighs about 800 lb that would be a good fit for the cc-23 just wondering what make etc. We looked at Continental , Tarpon so we are on the quest for a new trailer or used whatever we can find about 800-1000lb hopefully under $3000
 
Jennykatz, the one I bought was an EZ load 3TULB 21-25 with a 6000#gross/5000 payload. I think the 21-25 part signifies the boat length.
It only has one set of drums (which I will probably change to Kodiak SS) and only 2 aluminum bunks/ no side rails/standard bulb lighting.
The trailer was an '03 and was listed on Craigslist for $2500. I called the guy and he said he'd take $2,000 cash. When I saw it, it was less than pristine, 5 yrs. mostly salt use, but the only serious corrosion was on the u-bolts and the steel wheel drums. Tires were average. Recognizing it needed some fix and mod. I offerred $1800 and he accepted.
That's CA, so you should certanly be able to find something suitable under 3000, if patient. Though my papers say it is 500#, I cannot lift the tongue and suspect it may be subst. heavier. I think the current comparable model is listed at 894#. Here are EZ load specs for new. They are out of Port St. Lucie and there should be a lot around there.

http://www.ezloader.com/Brochures/EZBro ... sp?page=11

And, oh yes, the bunks were covered with some type of slippery plastic stuff. The guy said the first time he tried to launch it he unhooked the boat before taking it down the ramp. He said as soon as he started backing the boat it started sliding off the trailer. He gunned the truck and was able to get it to the water before it came completely off. That told me right there the guy was a lot smarter than I am (as I'm near certain I would have gunned it forward!), so $1800 may be way too much!

chris
 
Chris,

I don't know if you can find a local supplier or not. But Six Robblees has steel "Jeep flat fender style" fenders for about $32 each. A couple of these painted up with Line-X would really give you a nice fender system.
 
Chris, I have the slicks on the 8 foreward feet of my Tom Cat trailer--they make driving on and launching much easier. I probably would not use them for the entire bunk system--you know why from the story!

I don't think that any trailer fender mounts are up to being used to center the boat, even if the fenders look as if they would take the load. I have diamond plate fenders which easily take my wieight getting on the boat--but if you put the boat weight against them, they will give--and could bend....

You definately want one foreward keel support, plus the bow strap, plus tie downs.
 
i am rebuilding the trailer that came with my 22' right now, i can tell you that it had 10' bunks on it that started 18" from the transom and that was it, it had 3 rollers in the middle ahead of the bunks to support the front of the boat, i only launched three times like this, two of the times it was very rough water, and waves lifting the back of the boat during landing slammed the front down on the rollers hard enough to break all three of the pins that the rollers spin on ( i should point out that the waves at the launch were 3' and the rollers were 25 years old and very rusty) but still, i was not happy with this set up, i think the rust acually helped protect the boat in this case by letting the rollers snap off so the boat absorbed a lot less of the inpact, now im the middle of adding two small bunks foreward of the ten foot bunks, i added side bunks which i made my self and mounted with the boat in place to get the spacing, i took the boat off the trailer yesterday, so i can measure the gap, but mine are low, just up to the water line (so i can wash everything above the water line after landing) the side bunks seemed to work really well, even in 25 mph winds, I went to Six Robblees in everett, and got all new axels, springs, hubs, wheels, and hardware, they were super helpfull, and would have anything you need i would think,
 
Chris,

I noticed that you said you only had one set of brakes. If you plan on taking the boat/trailer into Canada, check with their DMV folks.... I believe, but am not sure that you are required to have brakes on each axle. If that is the case, you may want to do the brakes as you retrofit.

Steve
 
Found a trailer dealer here in SW fla Punta Gorda here is the website (17marinellc.com) They are basically charging Dealer cost .Does anyone have any suggestions for Brakes Kodiak vs Tie-down etc.Trying to put together the trailer I want .
 
I have used kodiak stainless disc brakes on two trailers and am very happy with them. Also, this is the time to install electric over hydraulic brake actuator. I have used three different brands but I like the Titan the best. Once you go electric/hydraulic actuator, you won't go back to surge brakes.

Regarding side guides, I went to a single upright on the aft end of the trailer (a picture of it on my photo album). It makes for an easy thing to build, without the extra weight and makes cleaning the boat easier. My feeling is that once the front part of my boat is secured in the bunks, I only need the side guides to keep it centered over the trailer and help guide it down as I pull out.

With my new Tomcat, I have had a miserable time with my Pacific Trailer design. The bunks at the aft end of boat is fine, but the foward end is a horrible design. Pacific Trailers only had a 6" bunk to support the forward end. The problem is that it was not wide enough to guide the front end of boat onto the trailer. The sponsons of the Tomcat are about 4-6" wider at the front than the transom end. This means the sponsons are "toe-out" and does not want to load straight on a single bunk. It would slide off to one side or the other. It ruined my fiberglass.

After much frustration and trying to deal with the factory, I decided to re-design my trailer myself. I looked at trailer that Thataway has and it seems to be the basic design for most catamaran trailers that I researched. But since I was doing the re-work myself, I decided to provide mini v-bunks for each sponson on the front of the trailer. It was a lot more work and I can see why trailer manufacturers would not want to go to this much trouble.

My newly designed trailer for my Tomcat works great now. It's a one-man effort to load my Tomcat on the trailer. I drive the boat between the two upright guides at the back of the trailer, the boat stays center with inside guides and once the front of sponsons hit the v-bunks (it has the plastic slicks), I am in and secure. I also provided a ladder system at the bow stop which enables me to do this whole thing myself. The parts are in for galvanizing and I will post the pictures of my finish product in a couple of weeks when I get them back.
 
jennykatz":17ywk95f said:
Found a trailer dealer here in SW fla Punta Gorda here is the website (17marinellc.com) They are basically charging Dealer cost .Does anyone have any suggestions for Brakes Kodiak vs Tie-down etc.Trying to put together the trailer I want .
Click to expand...

Tie-Down is adequate, IMHO, for freshwater and moderate use, from my experience rebuilding my own trailer. (Photo below.)

Kodiak has at least three grades of brakes, the highest of which has stainless steel rotors, with some bronze parts that are more easily manufactured from that alloy. Much better in salt water.

The general opinion is that Kodiak brakes are a superior product to Tie-Down, and the price reflects it. Tons of comments on these two (and other) brake choices on The Hull Truth

Tie- Down brakes are available inexpensively at Champion Trailer Parts Supply, as are all types of trailer parts at minimum cost! Check it out!

It would be interesting to figure out just how much it would cost to upgrade/rebuild a used trailer to reasonable quality standards. I spent about $1000-$1200 renewing the brakes, surge brake controller/coupler unit, bearings, wheels, tires, lights, a few rollers, recovering the side guides, and replacing a few bottom rollers and all washers and keepers on my roller trailer unit. At some point, it would be just as economical (and easier!) to buy a new unit! Best cost-wise, of course, is to get a good used unit with most systems already adequate, and not requiring rebuilding, but with a used boat, you don't get a choice of trailers, usually, so figure in the rebuilding costs when purchasing.

Another note:

When I went shopping for a triple axle trailer for my Sea Ray, it was apparent that new trailers come basically in two categories:

1. First-class units from manufacturers that put only the highest quality equipment on their entire unit, and the price reflects it. The cost can be 150% or more of the cheaper trailers.

2. Less expensive units that have some good points and some compromises to keep the price down.

Having trailers in class 2 is important to boat dealers, who are trying to sell a new boat, but don't want to run the total price up over the Wall of No Return with a customer when they add in the trailer. (Dealers may want to comment on this.)

Also, from manufacturer to manufacturer in class 2, each will have it's own good and bad points, based on what the trailer maker thinks is important. To keep the price down, something has to give. Some will use a combination of cheaper tires, or cheaper brakes, or cut corners somewhere else, but most all put on a cheap, flat, 4- element wiring harness, and some lights might well be considered along for a temporary ride only!

If you can find one of these you basically like, order it with some custom improvements to correct the worst defects, like specifying Goodyear Marathon tires instead of Firestorm 500 Flying Flappers (sorry, couldn't resist, just entertainment, no criticism of Firestone).

On the other hand, it's a lot of fun to rebuild a trailer to your own specs once you've had enough experience to know what you want and how to do it, both of which take a while to figure out.

IM001156.jpg
My Tie-Down installation (shows some wear on the rotors).
Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I had thought about using Trex or something like it for both the new aft bunks and side guides. I discussed this with a local dealer who told me they tried it several times without any success. He said any long length of the decking material had so much flex that it would basically flap against the bottom/side of the boat.

Based on this, and Bob's seconding the long run bunk concerns, I am now thinking about adding another factory cross member on the trailer about 28" in front of the rear, then adding 2 only 4' long trex bunks cantilevering 10" beyond each support. With the 2" support brackets on the bottom of each bunk this only leaves a maximum run of 24" unsupported (which I do not think will flap).

For the side rails, I am looking into aluminum rectangular tube that I could add a dock type rub rail to. Probably expensive, but should last as long as the trailer and not add too much weight.

Catch 22, I'm really interested in how you set up your side guide and what materials you used, thanks. On previous boats, i've found it isn't really important with long guides to have the fully above the water line as wedging the boat between them even further up will ensure the boat settles between them as you pull out. I'd really like for mine to sit below the first strake, if possible.

Chris
 
We spec'ed the Float on Tomcat trailer that we use here [and Bob has] . Its so simple and effective and fits so well , I dont understand why everyone tries to complicate it . Baffling .... Regular Kodiak Cadmium Disc brakes ,Torsion axles .Aluminum Bow Stop .Simple, Perfect.
I get calls as soon as we hit hurricane season for used trailers . They are gone as soon as we get one which isn't often .They are usually in need of help . OK for a do it yourselfer .A bad deal for someone that isn't .
Jim , is that guy selling trailers at "Dealer Cost" a 501 C-3 Corp ????
Marc
 
CEMIII...

my side bunks are located 18" from the trasom, they are 2"x6"x60", presure treated wood, epoxy coted with resin, then covered with bunk carpet, the structure is 3" steel c-channel, that i will be painting with POR 15 paint, they are angled to fit the hull- the bottoms are 67" apart and at the top they are 71.25" apart, i will try and get some pictures up soon, my camera broke so i gotta borrow my girlfriend's, after i redo the axels and suspention ill get the boat back on the trailer and add the side bunks up front, for this im considering covering the hull with wax paper and laying up a few thick weaves of fiber glass, then cutting the bunks out of that glass and bending some steel for reinforcement, that way the bunks fit the shape of the hull exactly, i dont see the point of long bunks if only a small portion of a bunk actually bares against the hull, keep in touch, ill get those pics in the next few days i think
 
I have used Trex on decks--and you need to support it at least every 16"--better at 12" in that application.--it is very flexable. I don't see any advantage to Trex--good treated wood will last along time.

Be a little cautions about only partially encapsulating with glass. If there are holes, or water gets in from the back, you will have rot. Wood is cheap, lasts well, is structurally strong--and easily replaced. I also use a power driven staple gun to put on Monel (not SS) staples to hold the carpet in place on my trailers.

I am looking for a trailer for my 18 foot CC--boy what junk people are trying to see. Cheap--not really--when you do the rebuild, it may cost more than a really good trailer! So one has to be a bit cautious in buying used. There can be rust or defects in hidden places. I looked at one last week, where the seller said he had an estimate of $200 to "fix" it. My cost in parts alone was well over $1,000--so, I walked away.
 
Catch 22, what happened to those pictures?

By way of update, boy has stuff gotten expensive. A pack of 1000 Monel staples $40, 1/2" stainless lock nuts, like $1.25 a pop, and shipping costs are out of sight, if you can even find what you want locally. Champion is a good source but shipping can be really high. I paid $44 on a $100, about 25#, order. It does add up pretty quickly and I can easily concede that NEW can be very competitive, and due to shipping, local marina pricing is more appealing if you can find it. How the worm turns these days. If you've got plenty of time, there are a couple e-bayers selling bulk packs of SS nuts and u-bolts fairly inexpensively and I am pleased with the quality. I cut off and replaced all the old rusty ones and used anti-seize compound on the new ones, an easy job while there's no boat on the trailer. It got new wiring and led lighting all around.

I was fortunate that the tires were pretty good Marathons and the surge drum brakes are still functioning well, although there is only one pair. How difficult is it to add a second set? It looks like maybe about $300 part cost, but I think that I'll wait and then go double discs.

I tried unsuccessfully to use (overkill) 3/8" ss aircraft cable on the winch but it was way too stiff to wind properly and sprung when the brake was released. Too backlash prone, so I switched to 10,000 break strength nylon 2"cargo cable and sprayed the last 4 feet with bed liner and paint to hopefully slow any UV and wear deterioration.

I used the 3' carpeted single post guides from the old trailer just forward of the tandem wheels and ordered adjustable angle roller guides for the rear. While I would definitely prefer solid side bunks, I could not find good fits or fab what I wanted cost efficiently. I fabbed some 3/16" galvanized corner plates for over the rear corners (above lights) which should allow me to add the rollers square and tight after the boat is on the trailer to avoid measurement guesstimating. Squeeze them tight, drill and fasten and it should settle correctly each time on pull out. Catch 22, I don’t think the tightness of the front fit is all that important if the boat lines up in the back and bow stop, it just aids mid loading in the wind.

SAM's club had some pretty stout looking 33' tie downs for around $14 a set, I bought 3 and cut them to the right lengths for tie overs. I added two more cross pieces, one up front for a second keel roller, and one in the rear to which I added 2 more 4' center bunks with Champion slip over plastic skids. I am thinking about adding a second hand winch down low on the bow stop under the front eye simply to synch the front end down tight. It will only need about a 3’ cable! I think it may be both cheaper and easier to ad and use than a binder or tie down. I painted my hull id. on the spare tire cover, not pretty, but may deter disappearance, (cable lock underneath). I put a nested album in and will try to update it when the weather cools down enough to finish the job.

Thinking about this a lot more I'm pretty sure the main key to whatever your trailer choice is must be: synch, synch synch!

Chris
 
I can sympathize with you in trying to get the boat to fit and be supported properly on a new/used trailer.
My old Easy Loader dissolved after 23 yrs. in the salt water so I replaced it with a single axle(6k lbs.) Canadian made RoadRunner in 2006. It came with only two 10' long 2x10 bunk supports. I tried to go with them but they were too short and flexible. On the used board pile they went.
I replaced them with 2 - 4"x6"x12' rough cut timbers from a local saw mill. They were spaced just inside the two bottom strips to help keep the boat centered. The timbers are topped with teflon strips. They stick out 8" past the transom, tapered down, and extend forward to the chine. I made a front support from a 6"x6" rc timber notched to the frame with a teflon strip on top. The timbers were cheap, available close by and can be easily replaced with new when they deteriorate. I feel the boat is supported very well. See pic. no. 22 in my album.

On the side bunks........mine top out just below the gunnel rub strip and are vertically placed and tight to the sides at midship when the boat is in the correct position. If you flare them out the width gets way too great when going onto the trailer with a foot or more of water over the bunks. This allows the boat to "flop around" too much until it is pulled out. The metal is heavy wall 2" sq. tubing and 1/2" plates sandwiched to the frame. The bunks were custom made with the boat on the trailer to insure correct fit.
I also put on front single verticals, black pipe covered, which guarantee that the bow hits the front roller correctly.

It will not win any boat trailer beauty parades but it works excellent. We launch/retrieve in pretty heavy salt water chop and rollers so the boat has to get onto the trailer correctly the 1st time and in a hurry to prevent a roller coming over the transom. The pictures in my album give you an idea of the procedure but the water was pretty flat that day.

My trailer lights crapped after the 1st launch so it was back to the light bar. Also the surge brakes were full of salt water so that all came off and went into the can. I only pull my boat 1/2 mile round trip normally with an occasional 90 mile rt to Homer but pull with a 1ton dually so braking is not a problem

I did a lot of "messing about" in the fitting procedure but isn't it fun working on your boat instead of mowing the lawn???? :D
 
Back
Top