C-Dory Venture 23 vs Trophy 2359
- Thread starter Mike...
- Start date
matt_unique
New member
wannaboat":3k5gzbzy said:
Unfortunately the Venture, as far as I can tell from pictures and the description, indeed comes with vinyl covered walls on the interior. I too like the plain gelcoat interior of most C-Dory's, the vinyl interior reminds me of the cookie cutter brands. I also like the idea of being able to get access to wires and such if something shorts out without having to pull off vinyl and "monkey fur" carpet.
I also researched Parkers but none shy of the 34' model offer an enclosed head and shower.
The C-25 would be the best fit for what you described if the finances make sense. Good luck with your search.
FWIW Bulldog Boatwerks has a 2004 25, possibly asking 60K. Twin Hondas, well equipped, not a bad boat.
http://www.fishingworld.com/vDealers/FL ... Boatwerks/
Talk with Ray or Vivien.
Incidentally the head concerns discussed here were our primary reason for spending extra for a 25 and we're very happy so far.
http://www.fishingworld.com/vDealers/FL ... Boatwerks/
Talk with Ray or Vivien.
Incidentally the head concerns discussed here were our primary reason for spending extra for a 25 and we're very happy so far.
Hi Wannaboat,
The CD-25 and the Venture 26 are more alike than they are different. And no, you are not crazy - there is certainly something about these boats that has great eye appeal. Get beyond the salty looks, and there is a practical, functional boat.
Like you, we had looked at Bill and El's site. You will hear from some folks that "bigger isn't always better"... but sometimes, bigger is a better fit for your usage. We know that we wouldn't be doing as much extended time onboard if our boat were any smaller. We certainly appreciate the enclosed head and shower, but also use all that extra storage. The fridge, hot and cold pressure water, and other amenities make it more liveaboard-friendly for us.
From my perspective, the boats are designed for a couple. While certainly you can carry more than that, the available seating on either size gets complicated with more than 3 onboard. They sure aren't like an open bow runabout that will seat 10. :wink: But, with prudence, they will take you where you want to go in safety and comfort.
Good luck with your search.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
The CD-25 and the Venture 26 are more alike than they are different. And no, you are not crazy - there is certainly something about these boats that has great eye appeal. Get beyond the salty looks, and there is a practical, functional boat.
Like you, we had looked at Bill and El's site. You will hear from some folks that "bigger isn't always better"... but sometimes, bigger is a better fit for your usage. We know that we wouldn't be doing as much extended time onboard if our boat were any smaller. We certainly appreciate the enclosed head and shower, but also use all that extra storage. The fridge, hot and cold pressure water, and other amenities make it more liveaboard-friendly for us.
From my perspective, the boats are designed for a couple. While certainly you can carry more than that, the available seating on either size gets complicated with more than 3 onboard. They sure aren't like an open bow runabout that will seat 10. :wink: But, with prudence, they will take you where you want to go in safety and comfort.
Good luck with your search.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Wannaboat,
Another thing to consider is how you like to use your boat. I think the C-Dory/Venure design is great in that you can cook while slow cruising. Maybe just a pot of coffee, or hot chocolate, or chili, or shrimp, steak, hot soup? Whatever, you can easily pilot your boat, wash your hands and cook and snack.
The pilothouse design is great since the cabin and the helm are one in the same. You can visit with the passengers, play games or lay out map plots on the dinette table, etc., while cruising!
The Bayliner designs do not allow this.
Over the years, I've had a couple of Bayliners with no major hull problems, but a dock mate of mine had a 35 foot Bayliner Trophy - the one with the full cabin - which had the hull delaminate to the extent that it had to be junked.
Over the years, you and your passengers will appreciate the enclosed head of the CD25!! That one at CY is one heck of a deal.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
John
Another thing to consider is how you like to use your boat. I think the C-Dory/Venure design is great in that you can cook while slow cruising. Maybe just a pot of coffee, or hot chocolate, or chili, or shrimp, steak, hot soup? Whatever, you can easily pilot your boat, wash your hands and cook and snack.
The pilothouse design is great since the cabin and the helm are one in the same. You can visit with the passengers, play games or lay out map plots on the dinette table, etc., while cruising!
The Bayliner designs do not allow this.
Over the years, I've had a couple of Bayliners with no major hull problems, but a dock mate of mine had a 35 foot Bayliner Trophy - the one with the full cabin - which had the hull delaminate to the extent that it had to be junked.
Over the years, you and your passengers will appreciate the enclosed head of the CD25!! That one at CY is one heck of a deal.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
John
Matt Gurnsey
New member
The venture series (23 & 26) do have vinyl covered surfaces inside instead of gelcoat. It warms the boat up a bit and gives a more "upscale" look to the interior.
The wiring is still easily accessible, but it does come down to personal preference. The philosophy here is that there is no reason to have a 22 and 23 that are basically the same boat, so the Venture is offered with the upholstered sides. headliner and additional teak, where the "classic" is offered as it always has been.
The wiring is still easily accessible, but it does come down to personal preference. The philosophy here is that there is no reason to have a 22 and 23 that are basically the same boat, so the Venture is offered with the upholstered sides. headliner and additional teak, where the "classic" is offered as it always has been.
Vinyl surfaces? Hmmm. I don't think I'd like that.
It may be a moot point now, sadly.
I thoguht it was off-topic to this thread, so I started a new thread about my boat loan rate shocker today...
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=10472
-
Mike
It may be a moot point now, sadly.
I thoguht it was off-topic to this thread, so I started a new thread about my boat loan rate shocker today...
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=10472
-
MikeHello again. 
If you check out that thread above, you'll see that after agonizing over Boat loans rates all day, we have decided to move ahead and get the loan.
And after probably 100+ hours of research (including reading almost every thread here at C-Brats!), it is clear that C-Dory is the brand for us. You all are just great; what a wonderful community here!
And now the big news:
I can't share the details just yet, but we have made a verbal agreement with a C-Dory dealer to buy an almost new C-Dory boat. We are going to work out the details tomorrow.
Unfortunately, the dealer is no where near here, so I will have to depend on the survey to ensure I am getting my money's worth. Once I can share the details, I'll have lots of questions for you all, like how to find a good reputable marine surveyor, and how not to get burned on buying a boat that I cannot go touch myself.
The other issue is how to deal with problems down the road (er, river...) when there is no local C-Dory Dealer. My choices are Annapolis, MD or Alliance, NC.
So, wish us luck; this is a big leap for us. It has been a life-long dream of mine to own a real boat, and to be a real boater.
But, we are trying to not get our hopes up too high; things yet could go wrong that would scuttle the deal.
Still, we have faith.
And for those of you who do as well, please say a little prayer for us. We'll need all the help we can get!
Thanks again for all your help!
---
Mike
If you check out that thread above, you'll see that after agonizing over Boat loans rates all day, we have decided to move ahead and get the loan.
And after probably 100+ hours of research (including reading almost every thread here at C-Brats!), it is clear that C-Dory is the brand for us. You all are just great; what a wonderful community here!
And now the big news:
I can't share the details just yet, but we have made a verbal agreement with a C-Dory dealer to buy an almost new C-Dory boat. We are going to work out the details tomorrow.
Unfortunately, the dealer is no where near here, so I will have to depend on the survey to ensure I am getting my money's worth. Once I can share the details, I'll have lots of questions for you all, like how to find a good reputable marine surveyor, and how not to get burned on buying a boat that I cannot go touch myself.
The other issue is how to deal with problems down the road (er, river...) when there is no local C-Dory Dealer. My choices are Annapolis, MD or Alliance, NC.
So, wish us luck; this is a big leap for us. It has been a life-long dream of mine to own a real boat, and to be a real boater.
But, we are trying to not get our hopes up too high; things yet could go wrong that would scuttle the deal.
Still, we have faith.
And for those of you who do as well, please say a little prayer for us. We'll need all the help we can get!
Thanks again for all your help!
---
Mike
Good luck Mike. I hope you get the boat of your dreams. Remember to set a little money aside for all the other things you will soon discover you need (want?) once you have a boat. Also, some vendors (like West Marine) have a new boat owners program that provides a discount on purchases for the 30 days (10% on everything except 5% on electronics at West Marine).
I strongly suggest that you sea trial several boats before you make the decision--perhaps the CD 22, 25 and Venture 23. You are making a major financial commitment--and once bought--it is yours. Not going to be making a quick sale if it doesn't work out in todays market.
I also suggest that you really shop around--used vs new--and go for the best deal--even if the boat has to be trucked to your home.
I also think it is a mistake to depend on a surveyor to make a decision--who is going to sea trial the boat? It is worth the cost of an air plane ticket to check out the boat.
I have purchased several boats at some distance, but in general I flew or drove to look at the boat first, even with a survey. I have been buying and selling boats for over 50 years...
I also suggest that you really shop around--used vs new--and go for the best deal--even if the boat has to be trucked to your home.
I also think it is a mistake to depend on a surveyor to make a decision--who is going to sea trial the boat? It is worth the cost of an air plane ticket to check out the boat.
I have purchased several boats at some distance, but in general I flew or drove to look at the boat first, even with a survey. I have been buying and selling boats for over 50 years...
I am a bit confused--you give your state as VI--this is the abreviation of Virgin Islands--are you in Virginia--VA?
If you are in Virginia, then there are lots of C dories within a day or so drive and I suspect you can get a ride so you can have a good idea of what the boats are like.
If you are in Virginia, then there are lots of C dories within a day or so drive and I suspect you can get a ride so you can have a good idea of what the boats are like.
Hi Dr. Bob!
Ha - I must have overshot that drop-down menu when I finally got around to joining the forum. Indeed, Virginia.
I actually have been out in this exact model boat before, and loved it. My C-Dory affection has been loooong in coming; I have been lurking here and researching C-Dory on the web for quite some time.
The Trophy diversion was merely because I have found a great deal on a 2359 locally, but fortunately, you all helped me come to my senses and get back on track. Phew!
Unfortunatly, I don't think there is any way for me to see the boat before I buy it. I am trying to work it out, but so far, no luck.
I was hoping I could find a trustworthy surveyor in the area who would give me an honest appraisal. An in reality, a surveyor will know what to look for, where I probably won't. Remember, my experience is on little boats.
There's more to the story, of course, but I don't want to jinx the deal.
Perhaps tomorrow I can say more...
---
Mike
thataway":392tx6vx said:
Ha - I must have overshot that drop-down menu when I finally got around to joining the forum. Indeed, Virginia.
I actually have been out in this exact model boat before, and loved it. My C-Dory affection has been loooong in coming; I have been lurking here and researching C-Dory on the web for quite some time.
The Trophy diversion was merely because I have found a great deal on a 2359 locally, but fortunately, you all helped me come to my senses and get back on track. Phew!
Unfortunatly, I don't think there is any way for me to see the boat before I buy it. I am trying to work it out, but so far, no luck.
I was hoping I could find a trustworthy surveyor in the area who would give me an honest appraisal. An in reality, a surveyor will know what to look for, where I probably won't. Remember, my experience is on little boats.
There's more to the story, of course, but I don't want to jinx the deal.
Perhaps tomorrow I can say more...
---
Mike
wannaboat":exmw2zmn said:I was hoping I could find a trustworthy surveyor in the area who would give me an honest appraisal. An in reality, a surveyor will know what to look for, where I probably won't. Remember, my experience is on little boats.
There's more to the story, of course, but I don't want to jinx the deal.
Perhaps tomorrow I can say more...
Mike
One of the true benefits of owning a C-Dory is that it's a WYSIWYG boat. Uncomplicated, easy to inspect, and outboard powered. If it looks good visually, it's likely gonna look good to a qualified surveyor, and the outboard then becomes the focus of attention. I know you'll have it checked by a factory trained/certified outboard mechanic. I certainly would. Engine surveys are not usually part of a boat survey down here. Don't know about your area.
Good luck with your offer. Sleep is difficult while waiting for counter offers. :wink
Don
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Having bought a boat (although much older and much larger) sight unseen, counting on only the surveyor, I would recommend you view the boat personally before completing the deal, or have someone you know (or maybe someone from this site?) look at the boat and give their impressions.
The surveyor will give structural feedback, but may not talk much about how clean the boat really is, or if the previous owner did something odd in installing some accessory.
In any event- good luck on this!
The surveyor will give structural feedback, but may not talk much about how clean the boat really is, or if the previous owner did something odd in installing some accessory.
In any event- good luck on this!
Matt-
Good points!
And now for a little overstated caution and humor:
The boat could stink from smoking, be full of mildew that would trigger allergies to the new owner, have awful or dated (horror of horrors!) color schemes, really mediocre or worse looking or smelling upholstery, rough wood finishes, a head (toilet) with poor upkeep and hygiene habits, speakers that are distorted and waffle from over powering, left over fish odors in the cockpit from inadequate cleaning, a stove with uncleaned below the burners since launch day, etc., etc.
Don't let me scare you off, but Matt's right, the surveyor is looking for structural and mechanical problems. You and your WIFE may have additional concerns!
One more thing I discovered when shopping for my Sea Ray two years ago:
A BOAT CAN PHOTOGRAPH VERY NICELY BUT STILL BE IN VERY BAD CONDITION FOR TWO REASONS:
1. The detail in the photo does not show cleanliness, details of surface finishes, fabrics, faithfully reproduced colors, wear and tear patterns, etc. A boat can look great in the photos, and once you see it in the water up close or go down the companionway, you quickly decide you can't get away fast enough!
and
2. A dealer or owner will use camera angles and select photos to include or exclude to hide problem areas.
We drove down 180 miles to the California Delta to look at several boats that looked from good to great in photos that turned out to be really dumpy or worse when visited in person. I'd even seen the outside of one at dusk on a previous trip when the dealer was closed and we couldn't see inside.
The interior of a boat shows the care given by it's previous owner(s) much more than the exterior or mechanical systems. Some if not many boats are absolute rejects because of their interior condition, and the damage, when obvious, can and usually does, increase greatly with the age of the boat.
Caveat Emptor!
I learned the hard way! (But didn't buy anything not A-1/OK!)
Look it over yourself if at all possible. If not, find someone you trust with similar tastes and standards. Nothing would be worse than to find out your new purchase "stinks" in some way, shape, or form!
Sorry to be blunt, but experience is a great teacher!
Good Luck!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Good points!
And now for a little overstated caution and humor:
The boat could stink from smoking, be full of mildew that would trigger allergies to the new owner, have awful or dated (horror of horrors!) color schemes, really mediocre or worse looking or smelling upholstery, rough wood finishes, a head (toilet) with poor upkeep and hygiene habits, speakers that are distorted and waffle from over powering, left over fish odors in the cockpit from inadequate cleaning, a stove with uncleaned below the burners since launch day, etc., etc.
Don't let me scare you off, but Matt's right, the surveyor is looking for structural and mechanical problems. You and your WIFE may have additional concerns!
One more thing I discovered when shopping for my Sea Ray two years ago:
A BOAT CAN PHOTOGRAPH VERY NICELY BUT STILL BE IN VERY BAD CONDITION FOR TWO REASONS:
1. The detail in the photo does not show cleanliness, details of surface finishes, fabrics, faithfully reproduced colors, wear and tear patterns, etc. A boat can look great in the photos, and once you see it in the water up close or go down the companionway, you quickly decide you can't get away fast enough!
and
2. A dealer or owner will use camera angles and select photos to include or exclude to hide problem areas.
We drove down 180 miles to the California Delta to look at several boats that looked from good to great in photos that turned out to be really dumpy or worse when visited in person. I'd even seen the outside of one at dusk on a previous trip when the dealer was closed and we couldn't see inside.
The interior of a boat shows the care given by it's previous owner(s) much more than the exterior or mechanical systems. Some if not many boats are absolute rejects because of their interior condition, and the damage, when obvious, can and usually does, increase greatly with the age of the boat.
Caveat Emptor!
I learned the hard way! (But didn't buy anything not A-1/OK!)
Look it over yourself if at all possible. If not, find someone you trust with similar tastes and standards. Nothing would be worse than to find out your new purchase "stinks" in some way, shape, or form!
Sorry to be blunt, but experience is a great teacher!
Good Luck!
Joe. :teeth :thup
I don't know where the boat is, nor where you are, but a quick flight down there and a cab ride to the boat would be a great investment. I hear flight costs are dropping and, other than holiday peaks, you can get tickets on short notice.
The structural analysis would be good in addition to a personal visit.
I don't know if the dealer is one of the frequent C-Brats posters.
John
The structural analysis would be good in addition to a personal visit.
I don't know if the dealer is one of the frequent C-Brats posters.
John
Sea Wolf":20r43p79 said:
Definitely the wife needs to see the boat. We bought a Regal 2465 in Florida a couple of years ago. Lottsa pictures sent, a survey, but then I made the wise decision to fly my wife out there for the sea trial. She liked what she saw and we bought the boat.
Only thing she didn't like was the red-eye flight from Portland to Tampa Bay. She flopped off the plane, straight to the boat, then to the motel.
-Greg
patrick and linda
New member
hi mike,
i recently sold a trophy 2352. same hull as the 2359. purchased it new in 2002. didn't have any problems, had a 5.7, 250hp i/o. like several others have stated, would not own another i/o. the outboard is user friendly, just about any one could work on it and seems to run forever. i thought the trophy was well built, seaworthy, had a 21 degree transom deadrise, hard chine and good strakes. tracked true and just an all round good boat. good luck with your purchase.
pat
i recently sold a trophy 2352. same hull as the 2359. purchased it new in 2002. didn't have any problems, had a 5.7, 250hp i/o. like several others have stated, would not own another i/o. the outboard is user friendly, just about any one could work on it and seems to run forever. i thought the trophy was well built, seaworthy, had a 21 degree transom deadrise, hard chine and good strakes. tracked true and just an all round good boat. good luck with your purchase.
pat