C-Dory Venture 23 vs Trophy 2359
- Thread starter Mike...
- Start date
Joe , I guess you don't know about the special cameras we dealers have . They only take great pictures and can change color schemes and angles magically .
Just kidding , you need to ask the same great questions suggested in this thread. If the answers don't sound like they come easily or honestly , that would be your first hint that you might want to see it in person . Especially if the price seems too good . Or maybe get a brat [ most know what to look for] to check it out if there is one close enough to the boat that you could ask to preview before you went a long ways to see it .
Marc
Just kidding , you need to ask the same great questions suggested in this thread. If the answers don't sound like they come easily or honestly , that would be your first hint that you might want to see it in person . Especially if the price seems too good . Or maybe get a brat [ most know what to look for] to check it out if there is one close enough to the boat that you could ask to preview before you went a long ways to see it .
Marc
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
Wefings":193age40 said:
and a pretty nice boat at that. Yes, they take more HP, but it's a boat that does well in rough water. Chinook is a dealer in WA.
Wefings":vttzqhyy said:
Marc-
It was really only the one boat we had actually seen the exterior of earlier that we got sucked in on because the interior photos on the internet looked so much better than the real thing. :crook
We then looked around at various dealers we knew about nearby in the Delta, and then went home, generally disappointed at what we saw, and looked some of them up on the websites and really discovered just how much the photographs misrepresent the real condition of the boat interiors because of the photo limitations. :disgust
Unfortunately, I don't know any C-Brats that live in that area, but did take a retired Yacht Salesman friend from Marina Del Rey with me, so we had a good time checking out the offerings. :wink:
As I remember, the boat was a 32 foot Chaparral with twin 450 hp big blocks and Bravo III outdrives, but the interior looked like it had hosted 450 wild drunken orgies and smelled like it too! :roll:
Looked pretty good in the photos, though (no, they weren't of a sistership or from a brochure). :smilep
Powder blue tuck and roll velvet, no less. And a giant round setee/dinette that made into a circular bed with a mirrored ceiling! :wink
Not exactly a C-Dory type boat, huh? :smileo
Must be some alter-ego, non C-Dory type of personality I have along with my C-Brat one! :smiled No wonder I also wound up with a Sea Ray Sedan Bridge Cruiser!
Joe. :lol: :thup
Hello everyone,
Sorry about all the mystery. I just didn't want to jinx the deal.
Here is an update: Our loan was approved. Thank goodness for that mortgage interest deduction!
And the boat?
Well, it's this demo with 50 hours on it:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...hosturl=riversidemarina&&ywo=riversidemarina&
Riverside Marina is owned by G. Winter's Sailing Center, both in Riverside, NJ. I have been working with Don there. Do any of you know G Winter's Sailing Center and/or Don? He is a very nice guy.
I am trying to work my schedule around so I can make the trip up there to see the thing. But I still need someone experienced to look at the boat with me. Might any of you know a surveyor or inspector or fellow TomCat owner in the area?
---
Mike
Sorry about all the mystery. I just didn't want to jinx the deal.
Here is an update: Our loan was approved. Thank goodness for that mortgage interest deduction!
And the boat?
Well, it's this demo with 50 hours on it:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...hosturl=riversidemarina&&ywo=riversidemarina&
Riverside Marina is owned by G. Winter's Sailing Center, both in Riverside, NJ. I have been working with Don there. Do any of you know G Winter's Sailing Center and/or Don? He is a very nice guy.
I am trying to work my schedule around so I can make the trip up there to see the thing. But I still need someone experienced to look at the boat with me. Might any of you know a surveyor or inspector or fellow TomCat owner in the area?
---
Mike
Looks like a great boat, Mike. It it were me, I'd make the sale contingent on a successful sea trial and not worry about a surveyor. Make sure the dealer will give you support after the sale. Since it's been a demo only, it is probably still under warranty (assuming these folks are still a dealer).
Good luck with the process... nice Christmas present!
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Good luck with the process... nice Christmas present!
Best wishes,
Jim B.
matt_unique
New member
Nice looking ride! I just checked the Brat map and there are 3 Tomcat owners in your area but not the same model (they have the Tomcat 24 - pretty different boat compared to the 255).
When I was purchasing my boat (Long Island NY) I made the awful 8 hour RT drive three times (ugh).
You can hire a surveyor, but we can help you with a very detailed checklist for review. I compiled mine from other Brat's and it was extremely helpful.
Somethings to get you started:
I put together a general article that some have found helpful here:
http://www.commercialcaptains.com/marine_articles
Choose the link for "Pre-purchase inspection of brand new boats". Bob Austin was gracious enough to put together a great resource for installations once you get to that point as well.
In terms of Tomcat specific things to look for...
1.) Check for telltale stress cracks where cabin mates with the cockpit at the gunwales (right near fuel tank cap).
2.) Look under the cabin roof overhang, typically this area is not properly sealed; you will be able to see if they caulked all the way around with a quick look. It will be easy for them to seal that up.
3.) Shower sump - very common to find these broken or not working. It's very important to test the complete water system by the way - get a fresh water hose and shore power to test the hot water heater, sink, shower, shower sump, toilet flush, etc. It will take a good 30 minutes before you have hot water. Hot water heater only runs off shore power. You will also need juice from your starboard battery selector switch (put on positon 1, 2, or Both) to turn on Water Pressure switch. You must have water in the fresh water system and water switch on BEFORE hitting the switch under the table for the hot water heater.
4.) Batteries....take a multi-meter and check the voltage on each battery with no charging (make sure switch is off under table if connected to shore power). They should all read around 12v. Flip the switch for the charger and take readings again, they should be at least 14v. You should also test that the engines are charging the batteries. NEVER switch the battery selector switches with the engines running. (Some systems can handle this - but play it safe and shut engines off before changing selector switch). On Napoleon here's what the switches do...
Starboard Battery Switch
Position 2 - House battery
Position 1 - Stb Start battery
Both - Stb Start and House battery
Port Battery Switch
Position 2 - Stb Start battery
Position 1 - Port Start battery
Both - Port and Stb start battery
Start the engines in each of the positions above to verify charging. Obviously start the engines only if in the water or properly connected to a water source.
5.) Fish box macerators...make sure able to pump out waster OK. You will need juice from your Starboard battery switch for these to work.
6.) All lights...inside and out.
7.) Windlass....
8.) Helm/steering...look for hydraulic fluid at foot of helm AND with a flashlight from inside the bow "state room". It's not an easy angle, but if the helm was leaking, it will collect at floor level beneath the level of the bed directly below the electrical panel. This will hopefully make sense when you are on the boat. The only way to reach into the area I'm referring to is with your left arm, laying on the bed, facing the electrical panel, again reaching under the bed from left to right.
9.) The plastic vent in the galley is often cracked...I had mine replaced and sized correctly (came too large from factory and thus cracked when installed).
10.) While running the shower, check behind the shower in compartment under the galley to see if hoses/fittings leaking.
11.) Verify engine hour meters working and advancing...
12.) Verify all windows open and close freely.
13.) Make sure you get all the goodies including dive ladder, ratchet tool for your windlass (allows you to manually crank if necessary and adjust gypsy for manual free fall), two sets of keys to engines and door, etc.
14.) Check for water in bow portion of sponsons...if present...likely coming from anchor rode locker leaking into them.
For some of these items, you may just opt to fix/upgrade yourself but these are some things to look at. Lastly, bring a notepad and a digital camera to document everything. This will make it easier to explain to the Service Manager. The inspection done properly should take several hours, not the 30 minute run around most people do
Good luck and remember ALL boats made will have these little issues to fix.
When I was purchasing my boat (Long Island NY) I made the awful 8 hour RT drive three times (ugh).
You can hire a surveyor, but we can help you with a very detailed checklist for review. I compiled mine from other Brat's and it was extremely helpful.
Somethings to get you started:
I put together a general article that some have found helpful here:
http://www.commercialcaptains.com/marine_articles
Choose the link for "Pre-purchase inspection of brand new boats". Bob Austin was gracious enough to put together a great resource for installations once you get to that point as well.
In terms of Tomcat specific things to look for...
1.) Check for telltale stress cracks where cabin mates with the cockpit at the gunwales (right near fuel tank cap).
2.) Look under the cabin roof overhang, typically this area is not properly sealed; you will be able to see if they caulked all the way around with a quick look. It will be easy for them to seal that up.
3.) Shower sump - very common to find these broken or not working. It's very important to test the complete water system by the way - get a fresh water hose and shore power to test the hot water heater, sink, shower, shower sump, toilet flush, etc. It will take a good 30 minutes before you have hot water. Hot water heater only runs off shore power. You will also need juice from your starboard battery selector switch (put on positon 1, 2, or Both) to turn on Water Pressure switch. You must have water in the fresh water system and water switch on BEFORE hitting the switch under the table for the hot water heater.
4.) Batteries....take a multi-meter and check the voltage on each battery with no charging (make sure switch is off under table if connected to shore power). They should all read around 12v. Flip the switch for the charger and take readings again, they should be at least 14v. You should also test that the engines are charging the batteries. NEVER switch the battery selector switches with the engines running. (Some systems can handle this - but play it safe and shut engines off before changing selector switch). On Napoleon here's what the switches do...
Starboard Battery Switch
Position 2 - House battery
Position 1 - Stb Start battery
Both - Stb Start and House battery
Port Battery Switch
Position 2 - Stb Start battery
Position 1 - Port Start battery
Both - Port and Stb start battery
Start the engines in each of the positions above to verify charging. Obviously start the engines only if in the water or properly connected to a water source.
5.) Fish box macerators...make sure able to pump out waster OK. You will need juice from your Starboard battery switch for these to work.
6.) All lights...inside and out.
7.) Windlass....
8.) Helm/steering...look for hydraulic fluid at foot of helm AND with a flashlight from inside the bow "state room". It's not an easy angle, but if the helm was leaking, it will collect at floor level beneath the level of the bed directly below the electrical panel. This will hopefully make sense when you are on the boat. The only way to reach into the area I'm referring to is with your left arm, laying on the bed, facing the electrical panel, again reaching under the bed from left to right.
9.) The plastic vent in the galley is often cracked...I had mine replaced and sized correctly (came too large from factory and thus cracked when installed).
10.) While running the shower, check behind the shower in compartment under the galley to see if hoses/fittings leaking.
11.) Verify engine hour meters working and advancing...
12.) Verify all windows open and close freely.
13.) Make sure you get all the goodies including dive ladder, ratchet tool for your windlass (allows you to manually crank if necessary and adjust gypsy for manual free fall), two sets of keys to engines and door, etc.
14.) Check for water in bow portion of sponsons...if present...likely coming from anchor rode locker leaking into them.
For some of these items, you may just opt to fix/upgrade yourself but these are some things to look at. Lastly, bring a notepad and a digital camera to document everything. This will make it easier to explain to the Service Manager. The inspection done properly should take several hours, not the 30 minute run around most people do
Good luck and remember ALL boats made will have these little issues to fix.
Captains Cat
New member
Wish I were closer Mike, I'd go with you in a heartbeat. Looks just like ours, only newer. I concur with going without survey, just take it out and run it. That's all I did, and this is my second C-Dory, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Good luck!
Charlie
Charlie
matt_unique
New member
JamesTXSD":3lznu7tj said:Looks like a great boat, Mike. It it were me, I'd make the sale contingent on a successful sea trial and not worry about a surveyor. Make sure the dealer will give you support after the sale. Since it's been a demo only, it is probably still under warranty (assuming these folks are still a dealer).
Good luck with the process... nice Christmas present!
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Good point Jim!
Make sure you have the 10 year hull warranty in writing on the Purchase Agreement. I would have reservations if you were not getting the full warranty even though it was a demo.
Congratulations, Mike, on your new TomCat! I am certain you will love this boat.
While it is advisable, I suppose, to have a survey, it is pretty unlikely that a major hull problem could go unnoticed, or not be covered by the C-Dory warranty. Also, the engines should be fully covered under their own warranty.
A sea trial is advisable mainly for them to show you where all the switches, pumps, valves, etc., are located on your boat. I am certain you will be impressed with the performance and handling of the TomCat 255.
Prior to ordering my TomCat, I rode on the CD-22 and CD-25, but had never ridden on a TomCat 255 until I took delivery. The 22 and 25 are very stable, comfortable craft, but the TomCat takes that stable feeling to new heights.
Well, welcome aboard and please upload your photos and improvements so we can all learn from them too!
Congrats again!
John
While it is advisable, I suppose, to have a survey, it is pretty unlikely that a major hull problem could go unnoticed, or not be covered by the C-Dory warranty. Also, the engines should be fully covered under their own warranty.
A sea trial is advisable mainly for them to show you where all the switches, pumps, valves, etc., are located on your boat. I am certain you will be impressed with the performance and handling of the TomCat 255.
Prior to ordering my TomCat, I rode on the CD-22 and CD-25, but had never ridden on a TomCat 255 until I took delivery. The 22 and 25 are very stable, comfortable craft, but the TomCat takes that stable feeling to new heights.
Well, welcome aboard and please upload your photos and improvements so we can all learn from them too!
Congrats again!
John
I can give you the name of a good surveyor in that area off line. But I would not bother with a survey on this boat. Definately do a sea trial. In your area, you may want some heater--I see no Wallas stove. Also maybe air conditioning?
Check all systems--make sure there are no leaks in the shower fittings under the galley stove. Make sure that the raw water wash down pump works--and no leaks. Make sure the sump pump works for the shower. Check out the macerator pumps, and both bilge pumps--both auto and manual mode. Check out the batteries and switches.
Of course review all of the forums and photos of the various Tom Cat modifciations.
Is there a swim ladder?--essential to have for MOB at the minimum.
Congratulations--it is a great boat.
Check all systems--make sure there are no leaks in the shower fittings under the galley stove. Make sure that the raw water wash down pump works--and no leaks. Make sure the sump pump works for the shower. Check out the macerator pumps, and both bilge pumps--both auto and manual mode. Check out the batteries and switches.
Of course review all of the forums and photos of the various Tom Cat modifciations.
Is there a swim ladder?--essential to have for MOB at the minimum.
Congratulations--it is a great boat.