starcrafttom
Active member
grab the ais by the cord and swing it around your head really fast. R.P. supports are 10 point and press is 25 points. Every time you get to 100 points have another drink. :lol:
C-Series vs E-Series vs Garmin + Autopilot....
- Thread starter Captains Cat
- Start date
I, like ripple installed a Garmin system in my boat. Because my boat is smaller than the rest of you, I went with the 3205 with a 18” 4kw dome radar with an analog sounder. If I were to do it over, I would get the digital sounder and the 8” screen.
I had previously used a hand held 3” gps so I figured a 5” would be OK. I don’t have any complaints about the 5” screen but think I could have fitted the 8” on my helm with a little more modifications. The analog sounder looses bottom at depths of over 350’ with a speed over 13 knots.
Other than those two things, I really like the Garmin system. Haven’t had to refer to the manual to use it and all systems integrated very well. The screen is bright and clear even in bright sunlight. The radar overlays nicely on the chart and shows what I see out there.
This is the only system I have ever used, so I don’t have any way of comparing it with other brands.
________
Dave
I had previously used a hand held 3” gps so I figured a 5” would be OK. I don’t have any complaints about the 5” screen but think I could have fitted the 8” on my helm with a little more modifications. The analog sounder looses bottom at depths of over 350’ with a speed over 13 knots.
Other than those two things, I really like the Garmin system. Haven’t had to refer to the manual to use it and all systems integrated very well. The screen is bright and clear even in bright sunlight. The radar overlays nicely on the chart and shows what I see out there.
This is the only system I have ever used, so I don’t have any way of comparing it with other brands.
________
Dave
I have Raymarine C-120 with radar, depth, gps and auto pilot. There are lots of folks who have more experience with this than I do but you asked for opinions so here's my $0.02. First, whichever system, I would get AIS unless you are never on a navigable water way with anything bigger than you are. Second, I have a C- series. I can update, but not upgrade, I'd go with the E series. Third, I have a 120. I'd figure a way to get the acerage. By the time you run chart and radar overlay, depth and separate radar, each will be down to your 5" screen. I'm not that tall, and it's in a CD-22 Cruiser, I can see out the front window fairly well. I can see what's on the screen real well. Sometimes I even sit on a pillow. Platinum will give the video option, faster redraw, brighter screen, and video input, and photo options. I have the 2kw radar, it's OK, but I'd go the 4 if it had not already been set up before I bought the boat.
These are not just upgrades for bigger is better. These are devices that you are banking your life on, and at some point, may save your life, either from getting lost, getting run over or running over someone.
Break out the plastic, and go for it. You will not regret having an adequately enhanced helm station.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
These are not just upgrades for bigger is better. These are devices that you are banking your life on, and at some point, may save your life, either from getting lost, getting run over or running over someone.
Break out the plastic, and go for it. You will not regret having an adequately enhanced helm station.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
I actually started out with an E-120 due to a good boat show deal I was able to get through the installer, but it was such a dominating presence in the cabin that I felt more comfortable with the E-80. Fortunately, I was able to swap. Perhaps if it had not been suspended from the ceiling it would have "felt" better. I like the way the two E-80s look, although I have not actually used the new one yet.
Warren
Warren
When we were at the SBS two years ago, the folks at the Raymarine booth were very helpful in our decision making. I had used only Garmin GPS/plotters previously, but was also very impressed with Tom and Susan's (Susan E) Raymarine integrated set-up when they took us out on their boat. We liked the features on the E-Series, and had narrowed our choices to the 80 or the 120; the Raymarine guys had actual size photo/templates that we could carry to the boat and try... we felt the 120 was too big for the space available in the CD-25. Also keep in mind that the E-Series is considerably thicker than the C-Series.
My take is that the Garmin products are more intuitive than the Raymarine, but a short study of the manuals and some practice levels that. I've had occasion to deal with Customer Service from both, and both were good in my experience.
Regarding the Coast Pilot info in the E-Series with Platinum charts - I've found it to be very helpful. Click on the area in question then follow the prompts to the info (much the same way that you'd get info or photos on an area... usually 1 or 2 button pushes to the info). I frequently refer to the aerial photos on the charts to get a feel for a new marina or harbor. I've not used the Platinum Plus, but there is a very real difference between the Gold and Platinum charts, and I prefer the info available with the Platinum.
A year or so ago, Navionics reduced the price on the Platinum charts (by about $200 per chart), after I'd already bought 3 of them, of course. :disgust
I'd give the E-Series two thumbs up after our time with it. I still use a Garmin as a back-up and for more information at the same time. I think both manufactures make good stuff, so it will come down more to a matter of taste. And then there's the question of integrated or separate for the chartplotter, sounder, radar... my vote goes to integrated. Greatly simplifies the information interpretation and saves space. "But, what if...?" And that's why the back-up chartplotter is there, with a separate internal battery if necessary.
HTH
Best wishes,
Jim B.
My take is that the Garmin products are more intuitive than the Raymarine, but a short study of the manuals and some practice levels that. I've had occasion to deal with Customer Service from both, and both were good in my experience.
Regarding the Coast Pilot info in the E-Series with Platinum charts - I've found it to be very helpful. Click on the area in question then follow the prompts to the info (much the same way that you'd get info or photos on an area... usually 1 or 2 button pushes to the info). I frequently refer to the aerial photos on the charts to get a feel for a new marina or harbor. I've not used the Platinum Plus, but there is a very real difference between the Gold and Platinum charts, and I prefer the info available with the Platinum.
A year or so ago, Navionics reduced the price on the Platinum charts (by about $200 per chart), after I'd already bought 3 of them, of course. :disgust
I'd give the E-Series two thumbs up after our time with it. I still use a Garmin as a back-up and for more information at the same time. I think both manufactures make good stuff, so it will come down more to a matter of taste. And then there's the question of integrated or separate for the chartplotter, sounder, radar... my vote goes to integrated. Greatly simplifies the information interpretation and saves space. "But, what if...?" And that's why the back-up chartplotter is there, with a separate internal battery if necessary.
HTH
Best wishes,
Jim B.
OK, Charlie. Obviously you're ready to spend some of that ill gotten gain you received from selling that overpriced Annapolis home before the feces hit the fan in the housing market. Good show, by the way.
I've got the C-80 package with the 2kw radome and a 13 ft. custom length radome-to-display cable. Love it, but we rarely deal with rain here and fog is pretty predictable. If you were rigging a C-22 I'd probably say the E80/4kw is boat jewelry. Absolutely necessary? Nope. Discretionary for all but a few (very few) adventurous owners. The TC255? Oh yah, load it cool, Skipper. Just don't discount Garmin or even Lowrance in your quest to fill the helm.
Garmin, IMHO, is the most user friendly of all the mainstream systems. Now that you're older than dirt, remember - if you don't use it you lose it, and remembering all the tricks and submenus in the Raymarine is one giant "grab the book" pain in the arse more often than not. Garmin radars are an outgrowth of many decades of airborne radar experience and I wouldn't shy away at all.
Lowrance is in the midst of launching their newest ethernet marine systems and if I were personally rigging a new C-22, 25, Rousburg or TC255, I'd probably choose it over Raymarine and Garmin. I miss my LCX series system and would still have it had Lowrance released their radome in time.
Furuno is, of course, the benchmark on bigger boats but their conservativism kinda reminds me of old Navy Captains who are slow to embrace new technology. I like techie toys....
OBTW, for those who followed my C80/Lowrance fuel flow meter integration posts, I also discovered the C80 WILL work with the Lowrance NMEA2000 GPS puck so if yer out there and lose the C80 puck, hooking the Lorance puck up via the Seatalk2 bus will have you back in business.
Don
I've got the C-80 package with the 2kw radome and a 13 ft. custom length radome-to-display cable. Love it, but we rarely deal with rain here and fog is pretty predictable. If you were rigging a C-22 I'd probably say the E80/4kw is boat jewelry. Absolutely necessary? Nope. Discretionary for all but a few (very few) adventurous owners. The TC255? Oh yah, load it cool, Skipper. Just don't discount Garmin or even Lowrance in your quest to fill the helm.
Garmin, IMHO, is the most user friendly of all the mainstream systems. Now that you're older than dirt, remember - if you don't use it you lose it, and remembering all the tricks and submenus in the Raymarine is one giant "grab the book" pain in the arse more often than not. Garmin radars are an outgrowth of many decades of airborne radar experience and I wouldn't shy away at all.
Lowrance is in the midst of launching their newest ethernet marine systems and if I were personally rigging a new C-22, 25, Rousburg or TC255, I'd probably choose it over Raymarine and Garmin. I miss my LCX series system and would still have it had Lowrance released their radome in time.
Furuno is, of course, the benchmark on bigger boats but their conservativism kinda reminds me of old Navy Captains who are slow to embrace new technology. I like techie toys....
OBTW, for those who followed my C80/Lowrance fuel flow meter integration posts, I also discovered the C80 WILL work with the Lowrance NMEA2000 GPS puck so if yer out there and lose the C80 puck, hooking the Lorance puck up via the Seatalk2 bus will have you back in business.
Don
Don! Don :roll:
Old Navy captains slow?? Naaaah. Just the east coast ones :wink: :wink: --
When my little half-arsed marine electronics company was trying to keep a positive bottom line, I'll admit a bias toward KISS. Most customers were commercial fisherman who depended on radar to make a living. They would panic if anything went tits-up. Even my own commercial fishing boat lived at LaPush, where pea soup fog was months at a time. I sold more Furuno than any other brand, not that it was any better, but because Furuno had/has a corner on the "big" boat market, and "If the big guys use it, it must be the best." I no longer have access to the mean time between failures (MTBF)data (TG), so really can't recommend RELIABILITY of one over the other. I really like the RayNav system, and have had NO trouble so far in the various boats I've had it installed.
Where you plan to use the radar is a huge factor. We have an unusual situation here at Deception because it seems to have a fog magnet!! CAVU everywhere else and socked in here in the pass. And of course the kayaks love to play in the pass current, foggy or not. High power, narrow beam width helps a lot -- and of course when the fish are in there are hundreds of boats -- many wood, using oars -- that look like someone threw a handful of rice on the radar screen. It's always foggy when the fish are in. :evil: :evil:
So be nice, okay? You sub guys are hard to deal with :cry
Dusty
Old Navy captains slow?? Naaaah. Just the east coast ones :wink: :wink: --
When my little half-arsed marine electronics company was trying to keep a positive bottom line, I'll admit a bias toward KISS. Most customers were commercial fisherman who depended on radar to make a living. They would panic if anything went tits-up. Even my own commercial fishing boat lived at LaPush, where pea soup fog was months at a time. I sold more Furuno than any other brand, not that it was any better, but because Furuno had/has a corner on the "big" boat market, and "If the big guys use it, it must be the best." I no longer have access to the mean time between failures (MTBF)data (TG), so really can't recommend RELIABILITY of one over the other. I really like the RayNav system, and have had NO trouble so far in the various boats I've had it installed.
Where you plan to use the radar is a huge factor. We have an unusual situation here at Deception because it seems to have a fog magnet!! CAVU everywhere else and socked in here in the pass. And of course the kayaks love to play in the pass current, foggy or not. High power, narrow beam width helps a lot -- and of course when the fish are in there are hundreds of boats -- many wood, using oars -- that look like someone threw a handful of rice on the radar screen. It's always foggy when the fish are in. :evil: :evil:
So be nice, okay? You sub guys are hard to deal with :cry
Dusty
Captains Cat
New member
Sawdust":190sp79o said:
Dusty, I think it's a lack of oxygen! They won't let him on board any more because of his tendency to sleep with the windows open!! :disgust I tolerate him pretty well though!
I think I'm going Raymarine. Too much of a track record there and I'm a little nerdish so I tend not to use the instruction book anyway.
We sure did miss you and Les at the show or at least at the hotel. I didn't spend long at the show, just long enough to look at the new CDs and visit Garmin and Raymarine. We had already shopped for all morning, Sally at her Bead Store in Lacey and me at Cabella's. That's a great store if you've never been there in person. I've always just looked at catalogs but this one is humongous!
Take care, keep your powder dry!
Charlie
Captains Cat
New member
OK, dithering is over. I just bought an E80 System Pack on e-bay for $2987 which, I'm told is below dealer cost. Two others had sold at $3150 in the past two weeks so I feel pretty good. New unit, 2 yr warranty. Now, I need the 4KW radar!
Don, the house wasn't in Annapolis, if it had been, I'd probably still be there. It was in No. Va. between Quantico and Fredricksburg.... As for the "gains", they're long gone into this new house.
Charlie
Don, the house wasn't in Annapolis, if it had been, I'd probably still be there. It was in No. Va. between Quantico and Fredricksburg.... As for the "gains", they're long gone into this new house.
Charlie
http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thre ... 68&start=1
Is the link to the problem with buying RayMarine on E-Bay. Please read it and take any precautions NOW to avoid problems in the future, if you can.
This is an individual who purchased an expensive RayMarine unit on E-bay, thought he had registered it properly by sending in the cards etc. Now RayMarine is basically denying his warantee. You have to read most of the 18 pages of posts to get the full story. (About 350 posts in the thread)
Also be sure that you put in the latest version of the software. You are probably aware that the RayMarine units were one of the only GPS which did not accept the transfer of the WAAS satellites.
If you are going to do overlay, you will most likely want a gyrorated compass, unless this was included.
Good luck.
Is the link to the problem with buying RayMarine on E-Bay. Please read it and take any precautions NOW to avoid problems in the future, if you can.
This is an individual who purchased an expensive RayMarine unit on E-bay, thought he had registered it properly by sending in the cards etc. Now RayMarine is basically denying his warantee. You have to read most of the 18 pages of posts to get the full story. (About 350 posts in the thread)
Also be sure that you put in the latest version of the software. You are probably aware that the RayMarine units were one of the only GPS which did not accept the transfer of the WAAS satellites.
If you are going to do overlay, you will most likely want a gyrorated compass, unless this was included.
Good luck.
TimOb":27k8vmwc said:
Tim - do your links like this.
Code:
[url=http://madmariner.com/features/RAYMARINE_1_070207_EE.php]description[/url]You can see the coding difference between the two.
Code:
[url=http://madmariner.com/features/RAYMARINE_1_070207_EE.php]description[/url]
[url]http://madmariner.com/features/RAYMARINE_1_070207_EE.php[/url]And here is how they look in a post.
description
http://madmariner.com/features/RAYMARINE_1_070207_EE.php
Both will take you to the same link.
________
Dave
Captains Cat":l0aiykcq said:
Ahh but the gains were there, Oh Ancient Mariner. You slid out just in time.
I'm surprised you went Internet source without getting a matching price from the nearest West Marine. When I bought my Raymarine package I brought the competing price into West Marine and was surprised. They not only matched the price - they matched the NET prices less shipping. In other words, Defender (my source) had the no tax price plus shipping and WM matched it less shipping but including tax.
Not only that, I got a big batch of those West Marine bonus $$$ coupons a few weeks later....
Then again us sneaky submariner types live to make life miserable for you guys that drive those big old targets. Ya hear me, Dusty?
Ahh yes, Dusty. Proof positive that short people are loved too....
Don
Captains Cat
New member
Ah well, as the old saying goes, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
I was investigating Dr Bob's (thataway) warranty stuff, copied the latest post and was prepared to send it the seller and ask the question. I had gotten an "invoice" to pay already. They wanted cashiers check or money order, would not take paypal. When I attempted to contact them, I found that the transaction had disappeared and I subsequently (almost immediately) got this note from E-Bay. Edited for brevity:
"The following is a notice from eBay Trust & Safety regarding:
Item Number - 110219219023
Item Title - RAYMARINE E80 SYSTEM PACK!
Our records show that you were a bidder or buyer of one or more of this seller's items. We recently removed this seller's active listings and suspended the seller's trading privileges. Due to privacy concerns we cannot share further details about this seller.
If the seller asks you to complete this transaction outside of eBay, we strongly recommend that you do not proceed with the transaction. Transactions for items listed on eBay but then completed off of the eBay platform are not covered by buyer protection programs offered by eBay and can be highly indicative of fraud. For more information on Offers to Buy or Sell Outside of eBay, copy and past the following Help Page link into your browser: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe ... -sale.html.
If you have already paid for this item but have not received it, you should take all possible steps to receive reimbursement. "
I have bought and sold several expensive things on E-Bay and have always had a positive result. Needless to say, I did not move further with the transaction. Very curious since the seller has been a member for a few years, had 100% positive feedback, including the sale of two similar items with positive feedback within the past 30 days. Except for the warranty issue and the refusal of paypal, I still felt comfortable.
I will now go elsewhere, I have dealt extensively with WM and have also gotten good deals from them. I will also go to another C-Brat who is a dealer.
The best laid plans.....etc, etc. Feel like I dodged a little bullet today!
More to come, probably. Caveat Emptor!
Charlie
I was investigating Dr Bob's (thataway) warranty stuff, copied the latest post and was prepared to send it the seller and ask the question. I had gotten an "invoice" to pay already. They wanted cashiers check or money order, would not take paypal. When I attempted to contact them, I found that the transaction had disappeared and I subsequently (almost immediately) got this note from E-Bay. Edited for brevity:
"The following is a notice from eBay Trust & Safety regarding:
Item Number - 110219219023
Item Title - RAYMARINE E80 SYSTEM PACK!
Our records show that you were a bidder or buyer of one or more of this seller's items. We recently removed this seller's active listings and suspended the seller's trading privileges. Due to privacy concerns we cannot share further details about this seller.
If the seller asks you to complete this transaction outside of eBay, we strongly recommend that you do not proceed with the transaction. Transactions for items listed on eBay but then completed off of the eBay platform are not covered by buyer protection programs offered by eBay and can be highly indicative of fraud. For more information on Offers to Buy or Sell Outside of eBay, copy and past the following Help Page link into your browser: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe ... -sale.html.
If you have already paid for this item but have not received it, you should take all possible steps to receive reimbursement. "
I have bought and sold several expensive things on E-Bay and have always had a positive result. Needless to say, I did not move further with the transaction. Very curious since the seller has been a member for a few years, had 100% positive feedback, including the sale of two similar items with positive feedback within the past 30 days. Except for the warranty issue and the refusal of paypal, I still felt comfortable.
I will now go elsewhere, I have dealt extensively with WM and have also gotten good deals from them. I will also go to another C-Brat who is a dealer.
The best laid plans.....etc, etc. Feel like I dodged a little bullet today!
More to come, probably. Caveat Emptor!
Charlie
matt_unique
New member
For all things legal, I like to go to the source:
http://www.raymarine.com/default.aspx?s ... Parent=379
Notice the 6th bullet from the bottom of their exclusions section:
"replacement of missing components from the package of any product purchased through an Internet online auction site;"
They will not cover missing parts if an item was purchased through an online auction site. Makes sense to me.
There is nothing in here that says you have to buy from one of their 10 authorized companies in order to get warranty coverage. It reads that products are covered for 2 years (less time for VHF's) as long as you have a receipt, original packaging, and visible serial number.
The real proof would be in trying to get a claim paid, but I read nothing in their warranty that would indicate they will not honor a warranty.
http://www.raymarine.com/default.aspx?s ... Parent=379
Notice the 6th bullet from the bottom of their exclusions section:
"replacement of missing components from the package of any product purchased through an Internet online auction site;"
They will not cover missing parts if an item was purchased through an online auction site. Makes sense to me.
There is nothing in here that says you have to buy from one of their 10 authorized companies in order to get warranty coverage. It reads that products are covered for 2 years (less time for VHF's) as long as you have a receipt, original packaging, and visible serial number.
The real proof would be in trying to get a claim paid, but I read nothing in their warranty that would indicate they will not honor a warranty.
Charlie, Glad you dodged the bullet. One of the things to watch out for on E-bay is thieft of the seller's name and site. In this case, that he only would deal with cashier's check (which is not really safe) or money order could have been a clue. Unfortunately these postings on THT have a lot of material to wade thru.
Matt, one of the problems with the warantee I linked to on THT was there there was no receipt--and often on E-bay there is not. This is the rub. You have to have a sales invoice or receipt. The purchaser had properly registered the warantee electronically and RayMarine had created an "insiders" account for his use ref problems. He thought that he was covered.
However you have to go a bit further in the warantee link to find the key words in the link: It is recommended that Raymarine products are installed and/or commissioned by a Raymarine certified installer. Installation and/or commissioning by persons other than a Raymarine certified installer may invalidate this warranty.
Standard warranty
“Date of first purchase” means the date on which the product was purchased by the first retail customer or where the product was installed and/or commissioned on a new vessel by a Raymarine certified original equipment manufacturer, the date on which the vessel was purchased by the first retail customer. For products installed by a Raymarine certified installer on a vessel already in the customer’s possession, the Warranty Period will begin on the date of product installation or commissioning.
“Raymarine certified original equipment manufacturer”; “Raymarine National Distributor”; “Raymarine certified installer” and “Raymarine certified service agent” are certifications given by Raymarine. .
It was pointed out by those "online" sellers who advertise on THT that they have "brick and motor" stores, and have on retainer certified RayMarine techs--for installation and use questions. This seems to fulfill the warantee requirements of RayMarine. I suspect that RayMarine does this to protect their dealers. Do you know that people you buy from on the internet have this protection?
I don't know how much "dumping" of material on E-bay goes on--or where this E-Bay merchandise comes from.
I just checked on E-bay--there are 195 RayMarine items--the first which comes up is "re-manufactured"--in very small print, and listed as "Navman" in one place, "RayMarine" in several other places. Some sites have what seem to be display or demo, as well as the usual used stuff.
I would not buy my electronics from someone who is also sellling dog blankets or tailgating supplies. Probably a bit better is E-bay express--storefronts, where there are 35 items. But I would rather spend a few more dollars and buy thru one of the certified manufactured sellers--may of whom are well known on various forums and have good reputations. If West Marine will match their prices, so much the better!
Matt, one of the problems with the warantee I linked to on THT was there there was no receipt--and often on E-bay there is not. This is the rub. You have to have a sales invoice or receipt. The purchaser had properly registered the warantee electronically and RayMarine had created an "insiders" account for his use ref problems. He thought that he was covered.
However you have to go a bit further in the warantee link to find the key words in the link: It is recommended that Raymarine products are installed and/or commissioned by a Raymarine certified installer. Installation and/or commissioning by persons other than a Raymarine certified installer may invalidate this warranty.
Standard warranty
“Date of first purchase” means the date on which the product was purchased by the first retail customer or where the product was installed and/or commissioned on a new vessel by a Raymarine certified original equipment manufacturer, the date on which the vessel was purchased by the first retail customer. For products installed by a Raymarine certified installer on a vessel already in the customer’s possession, the Warranty Period will begin on the date of product installation or commissioning.
“Raymarine certified original equipment manufacturer”; “Raymarine National Distributor”; “Raymarine certified installer” and “Raymarine certified service agent” are certifications given by Raymarine. .
It was pointed out by those "online" sellers who advertise on THT that they have "brick and motor" stores, and have on retainer certified RayMarine techs--for installation and use questions. This seems to fulfill the warantee requirements of RayMarine. I suspect that RayMarine does this to protect their dealers. Do you know that people you buy from on the internet have this protection?
I don't know how much "dumping" of material on E-bay goes on--or where this E-Bay merchandise comes from.
I just checked on E-bay--there are 195 RayMarine items--the first which comes up is "re-manufactured"--in very small print, and listed as "Navman" in one place, "RayMarine" in several other places. Some sites have what seem to be display or demo, as well as the usual used stuff.
I would not buy my electronics from someone who is also sellling dog blankets or tailgating supplies. Probably a bit better is E-bay express--storefronts, where there are 35 items. But I would rather spend a few more dollars and buy thru one of the certified manufactured sellers--may of whom are well known on various forums and have good reputations. If West Marine will match their prices, so much the better!
My dealings with West Marine matching internet prices has been they will match the price only if it is a legitimate and known company. That almost always excludes eBay and auction prices. Besides I like to buy local whenever I can and I don't mind paying a few dollars more to do so.thataway":34zhawhs said:
________
Dave
Captains Cat
New member
I guess we'll never know about warranty unless we don't install it using a "certified installer" and buy it from an "authorized dealer". Think I'll go with WM and be trouble free (although I'll install it myself, so maybe not) or with my C-Brat Buddy and take all the risks.
More to follow. :note Nobody knows the troubles I sees!! :note :disgust
Darn, glass is empty, Sally is sleeping, time for Bed!! :moon :thup
Maybe it's time to go back to Garmin?
charlie
More to follow. :note Nobody knows the troubles I sees!! :note :disgust
Darn, glass is empty, Sally is sleeping, time for Bed!! :moon :thup
Maybe it's time to go back to Garmin?
charlie