CD 25 Generator Box

M

mclaughlinrk

New member
I would really like to be able to safely run my eu2000i while underway and at rest. Has anyone added a second swim platform and built a fiberglass enclosure on top of it for one?

We are going to add a marine air conditioning unit and in the winter run an electric heater. Right now I have a temporary stand in the splash well that holds the generator for the heat. Since we want air conditioning I opted to buy a eu2000i instead of a diesel heater. What is the largest marine air that can run on the eu2000i? I do not want to get a rooftop unit and plan to add a sunpad on the roof for my wife. (moved from a sea ray and that's how I sold her on the boat)

As always your responses are greatly appreciated.
 
We had a Coleman 9500 btu rooftop ac unit. Our Honda 2000 ran it ok but by about 5 am it would need a refuel to keep going. You can do a search as there have been a couple different threads on how to go about getting the extended run fuel needed by pulling gas from another source. I don't know about a 25' C-Dory but on our 23' we put a stainless steel mount of sort in the motor well. In relatively calm conditions we left it there while underway. We used a marine shore power cord with a 20 amp adapter running from the generator to the boat's shore power connection. Pic's in our album.
D.D.
 
The CD-25 has room for a Honda 2000 in the transom area if you build a star board rack. I found a few different ones by doing a search. I use a inexpensive Walmart 5000 btu in the front window. The Honda 2000 will run all night with the smaller unit. I find I do not need air underway but need it at night.
Have fun. Tom
 
I have the 9500 btu rooftop air, Honda eu2000 on a bracket in the splash well, and a 3 gallon moeller tank with an extended run cap/ kit off of eBay for about $75. It will run the AC all night for 3 nights without refilling.
23 Venture.
 
A 10,000 BTU marine unit will usually run off the EU 2000, but you may need the domestic "smart start" unit, to decrease the start current (3x the run current).

We use a milk crate strapped on the swim step, and then a board with foot holes for the EU 2000, plus a bungee over it. Be sure that no exhaust gets in the cockpit. Have a current! CO monitor.

Sun pad on the roof? Not my favorite idea. Some of the 25's have a soft center of the roof. (that is only fiberglass not cored) on the center of the roof.) The weight aloft is not good if any chop, or roll. Yes, it can be done--and you may want to distribute weight to the cored part. You may loose part of the roof taken up by radar, GPS, Radio antennas etc... Also it can be slippery getting up on the roof.

BE SAFE!
 
It seems like a 10,000btu would be perfect for the c-dory 25, does anyone have solid confirmation the dometic smart start 10,000btu model will work with the eu2000i? I read on this site somewhere that an eu2000i was connected to an additional fuel supply off of the water separator for continuous run. That seems like a great idea combined with a quick release fuel connection.
I was hoping to have a fiberglass shop make me a box that the generator can run in with a power fan and a lid for semi-permanent mounting. There are aluminum ones people use for rvs all the time but they would not look great mounted on a swim step. Any thoughts on that design?

Thataway- I am picturing a less official sunpad. One for her to carry a towel to the roof for sunning while at anchor. She is 115lbs and at 170lbs I did not feel the roof flexing so I thought it would be safe. It is the only flat enough surface for her to lay out in the sun. Do you think it would be a bad idea?

Thanks,

Kyle
 
Kyle
If you look up photos for the CD-25 "Blues Cruiser" you will see some photos of the sun deck that John put it for his wife. Seems to work well.
Tom
 
FWIW- I just installed the new Coleman Mach 8 low profile 9200 BTU on my 2007 Tomcat. I installed it near the front for defrosting the front windows, and the added strength of being near a corner. I was very impressed with the factory layup of the roof. Top layer was an honest 1/4 inch glass throughout. The core was 9/16 and the lower glass was 1/8. I also added the Coleman 'spring pad' option. Even with the 14 inch hole the roof did not flex with my weight, so I drilled the four corners and lined the opening and filled the four corners with epoxy. Had I placed the hole more towards the center I think I would have reinforced the roof like Dr. Bob's Thataway album pictures depict . Time will tell ;-)

If you have a Blue Sea power panel you can also purchase an exact fit circuit breaker to add to an empty slot in your shore panel from Amazon for $12.

I'm still considering where and how to mount my Honda EU2000i. The 2000 has no problem running the a/c compressor but it is a little loud when powering the 1600 watt heat strip I added. I'm still considering adding a hush box
 
Avidmagnum12":21up35mb said:
Kyle
If you look up photos for the CD-25 "Blues Cruiser" you will see some photos of the sun deck that John put it for his wife. Seems to work well.
Tom
Click to expand...
Here's a couple of images of that boat and it's sun deck.
2013_01_06_14_25_04.jpg

2013_01_06_14_25_20.jpg
 
Hi - I have the 2000 and use it to run the 110 on my HiLo travel trailer. I would not suggest a 10K AC, get the low power set up Polar from Coleman, it is designed to start and run on the HP that the Honda can put out. The easy start kits need to recharge and cycling will cause an shut down sooner or latter.
Here is the link to the best of the extended run suppliers:
http://stores.ebay.com/brucejonh?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
If it was me, I wold add a dedicated fuel line from the main boat tank or split the motor feed line and add a manifold with two or more valves. With a full tank and the small side tank and fee line that John sells you will have plenty of fuel for a long night and then some.
Heat strips are not efficient but who cars? You would be perhaps better off running 110 around the boast and using a high quality portable heater/fan or a wall/ceiling mount radiant heater. You need to use AC to get the drool off windows and heat to get ice off the glass - that is why your car runs both on some cars when you call fro defrost.
I have never seen anyone run a mini-split on a boat but it looks a lot better than a Sears wall unit handing out of the window. I know that Jim of Wild blue fame used a window AC but only once in a while. In a place like Florida where the humidity is high, they make a lot of condensate and some must be dead level or they leak to the inside.
I have over 1/2 million tons of HVAC that I baby sit - before I size up conditioning a suite, I think how to cut down the heat load. Get rid of internal heat sources, paint with Mascot? or add foam insulation, tint the windows, use over sized insulated window/door coverings, use an infrared sensing gun to check heat leaks from both sides of the space, and ventilate long before your cool (maxi fan from Camping World).
On the high desert lakes, lots of houseboats have an evaporative cooler as the gen set noise and cost are a hassle. Always wondered if you could rig up a keel cooled HVAC unit!
Good luck to you, gotta love the C-Brats for willingness to tell others what we think!
Bob Jarrard
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies.

Where does the condensation run on rooftop units? I like the simplicity of rooftop not requiring cycling water and the ability to boaterhome but would really prefer to keep the roof clear if at all possible. Are you able to run the heat feature of a rooftop unit with a 2000i?

Thanks again for all of the opinions and support.

I will let everyone know the price I get back on a fiberglass generator box if anyone is interested. A glass shop that makes dock boxes in interested in the project and the construction would be of a very similar style. I imagine the 2000i would be very quiet all the way back on the swim step in a box with power ventilation like a motorcycle radiator fan.
 
I have a 1000i that I use to run my window AC. Works fine. An enclosed and lockable box on the swim step would be nice, but I would want the box to be removable for when we don't need the generator (we don't use it all that often).

The pieces I use to hold up the AC in the window allow it to be tilted a bit to get the water to drain properly. It is usually only a problem when the boat is parked on the street in front of my house due to the crowing of the road.
 
Glacier bay had a fiberglass box for the EU 2000 on the 26 foot cat models, as a factory option. If you can get a look at one of those it would give you an idea.
2272215_6_thumb.jpg

Running a blower would take some of the power- that is necessary for the 10,000 BTU units. The 9200 Coleman works fine on the Tom Cat. The Tom Cat roof may be different than the C Dory 25. My C Dory 25, had a center roof which would flex under my weight. Those who have made "platforms" support them on the rails. I don't know what the construction of you 25 room is as it varies from year to year and from model to model


Dometic smart start, is different than the extra capacitors which are often added to the AC units. I am not aware of them failing. If Bob Jarrard would review this product, and see if it is the same as what he claims fails. See:

http://www.dometic.com/QBankFiles3/EPiS ... _20043.pdf

http://www2.dometic.com/cbcde79f-6594-4 ... c982.fodoc

Yes, the EU 1000 will run the 5,000 BTU window type of air conditioning unit. I have had two boats where i have used them, and no issue with the condensate.

The roof AC condensate drains off the top, and no issue. There is a bit more to putting an air conditioner on the roof of a C Dory beyond the cutting a 14" cutout. You want flat surfaces for the gaskets to compress on. The C Dory roof is curved. When you tighten up the bolts on the AC mounting unit, you compress and flatten the roof. Thus the reason for the fiberglass and wood work:




Thataway_airconditioner_hatch021.sized.jpg
 
Thataway thanks for the information.

What are the steps involved to property flatten an area for the roof ac? Is there a thread on it? The polar unit seems like the cheapest solution.

Is the heater on the polar unit any better than just running an electric space heater? That is what we do now since we already have a eu2000i and the diesel heater options are pricey. I built a small stand out of left over trex decking left over from a job for the generator to test the best options.
 
Look at my thataway photo album for some information. Basically I cut oak to fit the curve of the under part of the cabin roof, then laid up fiberglass strips and epoxy to give the flat surface on top.

We find that the cube heaters are plenty of heat for most conditions. My recollection is that they put out about 6,000 BTU. Again, both air conditioning and heating are more efficient if you have good window coverings (such as reflective foil/insulation), and some foam lining the hull when accessible.

Heat pumps do not work well in temps below 40 degrees. Any resistance type of heater will provide the same heat/wattage. But the heat strips in the AC units are in the ceiling--the heater cubes can be near the floor, and take advantage of heat rising.

Also the ECO fan on top of the Wallas stove gives a good heating option. None as as good as the diesel heaters, especially in arctic conditions in the winter. We found that cubes and the Wallas were fine for the summer in AK.
 
I have not used the Domestic Smart Start - it may have the ability to kick over an AC unit as it cycles, I have used capacitors and that's what I feel is not a good choice for keeping a HVAC unit going when the voltage drops on start up. I have run real world tests on my Honda 2000 with an amp probe and seen it start and hold up to the rated amps, it will keep about 14.4 going no hassle but if you use the econo mode on the throttle setting, it does not always make the grade and without using that setting, you are forced to listen to higher RPM's on a constant basis. I would be interested if anyone has used a Domestic Smart Start on a Polar Cub running from a Honda 2000 with the econo mode turned on!!
I think the hard start capacitor route is in the $10-20 range but the Smart Start is more like $150 but you may find it cheaper.
If I had it to do again, I would buy the Yamaha 2400 and just skip all the rest. I have two Hondas, a 5000 Watt with 220/110 and the 2000 and find them to be great units.
I looked at the small diesel gen sets but they are costly and noisy - best if you run a water maker, cold plate and maybe an alternator all at the same time at a full load speed. I crewed on a boat that did that and it was very nice, they also could run a SCUBA compressor off the same unit. use a jack shaft and you have an in-board kicker for get home purposes.
Bob Jarrard
PS: Good thought on the Domestic, I was only mentioning in my first pass the use of a hard start kit as we put them on lots of roof top HVAC units where we are either having low voltage issues or the unit is getting a bit tired - most of these are three phase and start much easier than a single phase 110 motor. We also put time delays on the units to stop short cycling and if the voltage issue is ours from panel load, we add in a phased start array that keep more than one or two units from calling for start up at any one time.
Bob Jarrard
 
Well, here are some more links - I will now have to think all this over before I get too opinionated!
A site about panel mount soft starts:
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Motor_Controls/AC_Motor_Soft_Starters?gclid=CjwKEAiA7_OzBRDA8OfT3orp51oSJACVqslIDBvBKXHpiJW-DPRxocuqmLjYPa5OpR0louXP2Jl0PxoCTMrw_wcB
Domestic Marine's Input to the Sailnet forum:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/62158-honda-eu2000i-air-conditioning-3.html
Supco's way to skin the cat:
http://www.supco.com/eclass.htm
Seems that the Honda 2000 will not start some AC units in the Econo mode, for sure it will not start my full sized Coleman.
And for good measure - the link to the Domestic Home page for cost on the Smart Start II which has a list of $515.00!!!
http://www.suremarineservice.com/SmartS ... arter.aspx
Good thing we do not use paper, this would have killed a tree!
Bob
 
Bob'a link to the Dometic Smart Start and use with eco mode and a 16,000 BTU Marine AC unit describes the situation very well:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-main ... ing-3.html

The SmartStart uses a microprocessor to provide real-time control of the applied voltage and current to the Start winding and Run winding independently. The voltage applied to the start winding is also shifted in phase by an internal start capacitor. The application of voltage is so precise that each half alternation of the applied AC power is individually handled by the microprocessor. Then, using back EMF detection, the SmartStart determines when the motor’s rotor actually begins to rotate. The SmartStart then accelerates the rotor until it has achieved full speed. Then, at a very precise moment when the current waveform passes through zero, the SmartStart seamlessly bypasses its internal control devices with relays to connect the Run winding directly with L2 and disconnecting from the Start winding.

The SmartStart’s intelligence then even goes beyond this. Using the information it gathers from each start, it actually “learns” from what happened during one startup to determine what to use on its next startup. So, immediately after installing and using it on for the very first time, the SmartStart may take up to 10 startups for it to optimize itself to the absolute lowest possible starting current. After that, it continues to fine tune its startup behavior from start to start, up or down, depending on age of the compressor, environmental conditions, and voltage.

The result of this microprocessor-controlled automation and recursive learning is the absolutely lowest possible startup current required for each individual compressor and SmartStart combination. For all models of the SmartStart, the average start-up current reduction achieved is 65%.
Click to expand...

There was also the conclusion that the Honda EU 2000 would not run the 16,000 BTU AC unit on the eco mode, even with the Dometic Smart Start.

Yes, the Smart start is expensive! T I have occasionally seen it for sale at the $375, price point, but usually closer to $450. But less than a second generator--the Yamaha 2400 is an excellent unit, but I suspect it would also struggle or not work went a 16,000 BTU unit when on an eco mode.

Sometimes I run my EU 1000 at close to capacity for battery charging, and it does far better on non eco for the first few minutes of bulk charging. Then when the load is less, you can switch to eco mode. The generator engine just cannot spool up fast enough to provide the amperage needed. The clamp on ammeter is not a good tool, since the start up high voltage is measured in about 300 to 400 microseconds, and the clamp on, averages per second. (best is an in line meter).
 
Bob is right that an amp probe is not the for start up amps but I have also used a Watt Miser and can get a bit of feel for what is going on. The small mach III Ac is just a bit off 10,000 BTU's and FLA running is only 11.2 - start up is softer than others n the line or so they claim, it will start in environmental conditions that will not allow some other units to kick over, I have seen this in the local mountains and while desert camping. I don't think any of the C-dorys except a CAT would ever need 16,000 BTU's. I like the very small window units and a Honda 1000 myself, the 1000 is really easy to pick up, the 2000 is getting up there for me to just horse around.
As they say, two flavors of ice cream so that we can have a choice.
Bob Jarrard
 
Hello Bob and Bob,

You are correct that a standard clamp on meter will not adequately measure "start-up" current.

There ARE clamp on meters that WILL measure "start up" (or inrush) current. The FLUKE 375 is an example of such a meter. These meters are designed to give readings that reflect the actual loads seen by the overcurrent protection in the circuit. For sure, they are expensive, but much simpler than trying to install something inline.

Happy Christmas!

dave
 
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