CD25 weight

slowtrot

New member
I finally got around to putting our CD25 on certified scales. It had around 55 gals of fuel, no water, and an empty black water tank. It was weighed fully rigged including a Honda generator, roof AC,no kicker, all tools, pots, pans and plates and a 150 yamaha main motor. Total weight with alum trailer was right at 6,900 lbs. I am towing with a 2008 toyota tundra rated for 8,400 lbs pull and it pulls and stops the boat with ease except the heartburn of fuel costs.

We also have a 2007 Road Trek 210 class B motor home rated for 7500 lbs and on the flat roads it can pull the boat but that is knocking on the door of the limit.
 
I'll bet by the time you get flu fuel (another 300 lbs) Water (about 200 lbs,) food, clothing etc, it will be in the mid 7000 range.

We also towed our 25 short distances with a Road Trek 1 ton. However, you have to look at the gross combined vehicular weight for the capacity of the Road Trek--not just the tow capacity. This comes from 13,000 to 16,000 lbs depending on model. The interior weight, food, fuel, batteries etc all add up and subtract from the towing capacity. It would be ideal if the Road Trek could tow the 25, but I also thought it was a strain.
 
I have the same situation with my (non-Road Trek) camper van. It's rated to tow 7,500#, but the gross combined (GCWR) keeps me well under that limit -- because it's 13,000# and my van, loaded up for travel, is around 7,400#. So in reality that leaves me about 5,600# for towing. I also only have about 1,000# "left over" for towing on the rear-axle weight rating, so there's another limit I would probably run up against before I ever got to the 7,500# "rated" towing weight.

Good to have actual numbers on your 25 :thup

Sunbeam
 
I don't think that the road trek can really tow a CD 25 adequately. Maybe it could with everything as light as possible, but that is not remotely realistic.

One of the reasons I keep my good old CD 22 is because I can tow it safely with my E-450 chassis, 24 foot, class "C" motorhome. On paper, it could tow the CD 25 as it has a 22500 pound GCVW and scales fully loaded at 13,000 or so pounds - leaving plenty of towing capacity for the 25.

But don't get lost in the numbers. Would I tow a CD 25 with it at all? I am very reluctant which is why I still have the CD 22. Would I tow it across the country? No.

Towing that big of load with the road trek or my E-450 would probable be asking for the tranny to give out, the cooling system to fail, and potentially other happenings that are not going to make one very happy.
 
slowtrot":2ggvu1yv said:
I finally got around to putting our CD25 on certified scales. It had around 55 gals of fuel, no water, and an empty black water tank. It was weighed fully rigged including a Honda generator, roof AC,no kicker, all tools, pots, pans and plates and a 150 yamaha main motor. Total weight with alum trailer was right at 6,900 lbs. I am towing with a 2008 toyota tundra rated for 8,400 lbs pull and it pulls and stops the boat with ease except the heartburn of fuel costs.

We also have a 2007 Road Trek 210 class B motor home rated for 7500 lbs and on the flat roads it can pull the boat but that is knocking on the door of the limit.

Curious as to what type of gas MPG you get with that setup (08 Tundra). I ask as that would likely be our next truck were we to get at CD25 or TC24.
 
I've towed the CD25 with both a Tundra and a Chevy 2500 HD Duramax. The Duramax did a better job and felt more stable doing it. It got about 13-14 mpg. The Tundra doesn't feel quite as solid maybe because it is 1300 lbs lighter. The Tundra gets maybe 10 mpg towing on good days with few hills.

Tom
 
This is a subject about like the single motor or dual motor on a boat or the kind of oil to run in a motorcycle engine. Be nice! There is no one right answer. It depends on--------

I have some practical experience with diesels from military and industry. I still have a diesel kabota tractor and my brother across the creek has my old 96 ford F250 7.3 power stroke.

Generally speaking diesel engines have more low rpm torque than gas engines. In some ways diesels are simpler than gas because they dont have spark plugs. They are heavy engines to get the high compression required for ignition. Diesels do not like cold and they require lots of cold cranking power. In real real cold, diesel fuel turns to jelly and it you shut them down you can play heck getting them started again. Take really good care of your batteries if you have a diesel or you are going to walk.

My old 96 ford power stroke truck with a manual tranny will pull like a john deere tractor and the heavy straight cut transmission gears and big clutch will let me tow any weight load I hook it to. I towed a big portable sawmill with it for several years and towed loads of wet lumber up and down the mountains here. Stopping was the problem not towing. It does not like speeds above 65 The diesel gets out of its grunt zone.

That power stroke is one good engine but with some known electrical problems now sorted out. The early glow plug wires and the glow plug relay drove me nuts. Driving a manual diesel will keep your left leg in shape because you will shift a lot with a low rev engine.

In the usa we run dirty diesel fuel and the new emission requirements have caused all diesel makers expensive problems in the last ten years. Diesels have become more complicated to meet the new standards and mechanics have been pulling their hair out. Ford lost the farm on recalls. Cummings and GM both make good diesels and Ford may have the issues fixed on their newer designs.
Today, probably the older diesels are more reliable than the newer. They are simpler.

Gassers are well, gassers. Start better in cold and have much high rev potential but you pay for that in fuel. Initial cost is less. (Honda motorcycles is now introducing high torque low rev, high mileage gasser engines that pull like diesels and top out at 6,000 rpm but the jury is still out on how they will be accepted)

Diesel or gas, the weak links are the auto transmissions which old guys like me love rather than big heavy manual clutches. Heat and the style of driving are the enemy. The allison auto tranny is probably the best auto of the lot and that is because of their long history of armored vehicle military transmissions. If you drive a heavy load with an auto transmission and rough house it with hard shifts I promise that you will have it in the shop for expensive rebuilds. Smooth and gentle is key. Watch the trans mission temps. If you spike the fluid temp, be sure and change the fluid pronto.

A bigger truck is not always the best solution. Big long wheel based 4 wheel drive trucks take 40 acres to turn and they will be jumping curbs to get around close parking lots. Out west not such a big problem but here big pickups stick out in the parking lanes and in some close quarters you cannot park them where cars park. . So think about the trade offs if you drive your tow vehicle for general use.

The closer you get to the book load limits the better, smoother, gentler driver you need to be with more separation on the road. Instead for the 4 second rule stretch it out to 6 or 8. If you get a big heavy truck and get in the habit of driving with a load like it is not back there someday you are likely to get a real surprise when that load starts to pass you. I think wise driving is much more important than calculated load margin. As a practical matter I would not go beyond the calculated load limits but I am not of the camp that says hugh margins are an absolute requirement. Know where you are in weight and adjust your driving accordingly. My general guess is that folks who buy C Dories are not wild risk takers to begin with and the risk is that others will run into us rather than the other way round.

Get a tow vehicle that you like, that fits you, that will tow the known load and get going. Some will want big margins and they need to be comfortable with that assurance. Others will be just fine with smaller towers.
 
slowtrot":mivg4yow said:
There is no one right answer...
Get a tow vehicle that you like, that fits you, that will tow the known load and get going.

I enjoyed reading your post, slowtrot :thup

Sunbeam :hot
 
Sunbeam":13kgecn7 said:
slowtrot":13kgecn7 said:
There is no one right answer...
Get a tow vehicle that you like, that fits you, that will tow the known load and get going.

I enjoyed reading your post, slowtrot :thup

Sunbeam :hot

Me too, Sunbeam. But don't forget that something that "gets going" also has to stop! :roll:

Charlie
 
Captains Cat":2gs32dkg said:
Sunbeam":2gs32dkg said:
slowtrot":2gs32dkg said:
There is no one right answer...
Get a tow vehicle that you like, that fits you, that will tow the known load and get going.

I enjoyed reading your post, slowtrot :thup

Sunbeam :hot

Me too, Sunbeam. But don't forget that something that "gets going" also has to stop! :roll:

I'm not sure if I'm missing something (entirely possible), but I don't understand your reply to me, and that makes me wonder if I unwittingly "endorsed" something I don't believe in, such as driving a vehicle with inadequate stopping ability. Would you mind clarifying for me?

Edited to add: Oh, maybe it was when slowtrot said "and get going"? I took that to mean "get on out there and use your C-Dory (towing it with a vehicle that you like, that is comfortably adequate, and that suits the rest of your life if it needs to)." Maybe you took it to mean he doesn't care about stopping ability (?)

Sunbeam
 
A few comments on Slowtrot's excellent post. (My experience goes back over 60 years from large gensets, 8D cat, over a dozen boat diesel engines, up to 375 hp, Farm tractors (4 on our farm) and many years ownership of RV's with diesels, plus a couple of light trucks. The very newest of the diesels are lighter due to higher RPM and lightweight materials. However, they are much more complex electrically (electronics). It used to be air and fuel---a diesel would run. Today, you have to have all of the electronics going, and a new part of the equation: UREA (DEF) which is injected in the exhaust to decrease nitrous oxides emissions! For that reason I might tend to steer clear of the most recent diesels. (I currently run a 2007 Cummins ISC (350 hp) in my RV and am so happy as I watch newer owners struggle with the DEF problem) Another caution is to keep the displacement up. You see 5.9 liter engines rated at 500 hp, and 8.3 liter engines rated at 200 hp. The lower rated engine will last longer. Also figure that most on the road tractors go over 500,000 miles before being traded--and many go a million miles before major overhauls.

I think the secret to the cold weather is a good block heater, and even a heater along the fuel system--plus cold weather formulated diesel to prevent the gel factor. Granted we have not lived in the arctic, but we did a lot of "ski camping" where the temp was below zero when we needed to start the diesel--and no problems. The other "secret" is good filters, plus frequent changes. Although it may be "overkill" we use a 2 micron filter after the 30 and 10 micron filters in the fuel lines before the engine filters and inception pump. We tend to fill up at truck stops or Marinas (in boats with diesel) with high volume, and avoid filling when the delivery tanks are low. In boats I used to have a mason jar we put the first bit of fuel into, and if there was clouding/particulate matter, we either went right to a 3 stage baja filter or did not fuel there.

Allison transmissions--sure there are a large variety--but they are made up to drive the heaviest of vehicles, including those with GCVW of over 100,000 lbs. (beyond what is sheet legal). Many of the on the road tractors now run auto transmissions. The 6 speed Allison in our RV is rated for up to 50,000 lbs capacity and over 500 HP. That exhaust brake is really great! Failure is rare.

There are also some good specific truck transmissions, and I really like the one in my GMC Yukon XL (gas)--but it is not a Allison! I do think that a tow haul mode is a great feature--since it not only tends to lock out overdrive, but in some transmissions resets the shift points.

Although you may not recoup the cost in fuel savings with a diesel (especially since diesel is currently more expensive than gasoline--no real reasons why), but that extra torque, and the exhaust brake make a huge difference when towing.

The Scan gauge was also mentioned--there is one available for diesel, and I think that everyone who is towing today should get one on their truck--they are only a little over $100, and give MPG, instant, average, various pressures, and temps; information you will not see on the analogue gauges, and you can supplement those numbers you see on the most modern trucks digital gauges.
 
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