If you have a military club card: Key West Naval air station, Boca Chica marina has slips for .80 a ft. ($25) minimum. Includes water, electric, showers. The launch ramp is still hurricane damaged. Sigsbee housing area marina is closed for rentavation but the launch ramp is available. We launched at Sigsbee marina, stayed at Boca Chica. Took a cab back to get the truck/trailer (about 10 miles) and parked it (free) at Boca Chica marina. Kind of a hassle but the security and price is tuff to beat. We dropped the trailer and used the truck to look around as well.
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Changes in the Keys
- Thread starter Valkyrie
- Start date
C-WEED/Chris.... Man, glad to see you alive and kick'n ! Yes, the military post around the coast do offer some sweet options.
Condos are now just a way of life. Even between two lock and dams on the Cumberland River, Ashland City on the map, there is a very nice condo/marina gig going up. Basically sold out the condos in a 6 month time. You too could have a nice 1,000 sq ft condo and 30' slip for about $300-$350K....on the river, that only has about 60-70 miles of river prior to having to lock thru. Upriver, Nashville, downriver, the true Heartlands and intersections of many of the rivers that converge like a mult-interstate junction in our larger cities. From Cadiz, I think I have about 380 river miles without locks....and that is only the straight down the river channel miles, and none of the back waters, creeks and thousands of sweet junk holes.
But, we still enjoy endless miles of river with nothing on the banks...just sweet nature stuff...
Byrdman
Condos are now just a way of life. Even between two lock and dams on the Cumberland River, Ashland City on the map, there is a very nice condo/marina gig going up. Basically sold out the condos in a 6 month time. You too could have a nice 1,000 sq ft condo and 30' slip for about $300-$350K....on the river, that only has about 60-70 miles of river prior to having to lock thru. Upriver, Nashville, downriver, the true Heartlands and intersections of many of the rivers that converge like a mult-interstate junction in our larger cities. From Cadiz, I think I have about 380 river miles without locks....and that is only the straight down the river channel miles, and none of the back waters, creeks and thousands of sweet junk holes.
But, we still enjoy endless miles of river with nothing on the banks...just sweet nature stuff...
Byrdman
El and Bill
New member
Complaining about condos is like complaining about McDonalds or WalMart -- if they weren't serving a useful purpose for many folks, they would soon disappear -- that's the way the free market works.
For those who don't like such 'intrusions,' one should be vigilant regarding zoning regulations. I was on the planning commission in Vegas for years -we responded to citizen input, and if there was none, the 'business' folks often had the input. Since we generally didn't like govt. intrusion into private use of land, we had a master plan (after extensive public hearings) and tried to adhere to it. If you don't like the way Vegas looks then you know who to blame -- me! (and the other commissioners).
Citizen participation is critical in our system -- with the Keys -- they look as they do because that's what local folks wanted (or didn't exercise their responsibility to prevent).
For those who don't like such 'intrusions,' one should be vigilant regarding zoning regulations. I was on the planning commission in Vegas for years -we responded to citizen input, and if there was none, the 'business' folks often had the input. Since we generally didn't like govt. intrusion into private use of land, we had a master plan (after extensive public hearings) and tried to adhere to it. If you don't like the way Vegas looks then you know who to blame -- me! (and the other commissioners).
Citizen participation is critical in our system -- with the Keys -- they look as they do because that's what local folks wanted (or didn't exercise their responsibility to prevent).
dogon dory
New member
Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
We spent two weeks in the Lower Keys last February. It was our first visit to the area. Key West wasn't really to our liking. We only stayed there one night. It was kind of like Disneyworld, only everyone was either drunk or Goofy. Some great restaurants though.
We rented a house on Ramrod Key and rented a flats boat for a week. Once we got out into the back country flats, the Keys were wonderful. I saw a quote about boating on the flats being the graduate level course in small boating. It really felt that way. I'm used to going around areas less than 6' deep. In the back country, 4-6' is the main channel. I learned that a 1' tidal change really did mean something. I also learned that a flats boat can run in less than 1' of water if up on plane. Slow and cautious required 2 to 2 1/2' of water, or poling.
I also learned that I'm not nearly as good a fly fisherman as I thought. I've fly fished for over 30 years for trout and salmon. I found out quickly that casting a size 22 blue winged olive to a trout with a 4 wt rod doesn't prepare you for casting a huge fly with a 10 wt rod to a Cobia that comes and goes in a flash.
Because the back country is so wonderful and different to us, we are going back again this February. We have rented a house on Big Pine Key for a couple of weeks and a flats boat for a couple of weeks.
The rest of the Keys may be crowded, but the back country in the Lower Keys sure wasn't crowded in February.
Lyle
We rented a house on Ramrod Key and rented a flats boat for a week. Once we got out into the back country flats, the Keys were wonderful. I saw a quote about boating on the flats being the graduate level course in small boating. It really felt that way. I'm used to going around areas less than 6' deep. In the back country, 4-6' is the main channel. I learned that a 1' tidal change really did mean something. I also learned that a flats boat can run in less than 1' of water if up on plane. Slow and cautious required 2 to 2 1/2' of water, or poling.
I also learned that I'm not nearly as good a fly fisherman as I thought. I've fly fished for over 30 years for trout and salmon. I found out quickly that casting a size 22 blue winged olive to a trout with a 4 wt rod doesn't prepare you for casting a huge fly with a 10 wt rod to a Cobia that comes and goes in a flash.
Because the back country is so wonderful and different to us, we are going back again this February. We have rented a house on Big Pine Key for a couple of weeks and a flats boat for a couple of weeks.
The rest of the Keys may be crowded, but the back country in the Lower Keys sure wasn't crowded in February.
Lyle
dogon dory
New member
Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
A
Anonymous
Guest
El and Bill":114qsrl7 said:For those who don't like such 'intrusions,' one should be vigilant regarding zoning regulations.
Zoning?! We came to Sequim from Delta County, CO, one of two counties in Colorado without zoning having moved there to escape the Messalopolis (Denver) for our retirement.
While there we joined with a group of our rural neighbors, a few rednecks included, to try to block the conversion of a red-rock sandstone bluff to a gravel quarry a half mile from our home (closer for a number of folks).
In spite of recommendations from citizen advisory planning committees and the county's own Planning Department the commissioners decided to permit a couple of local Good Old Boys and their twentysome year old excavating business to convert ten acres of our rural residential neighborhood to an industrial enterprise, at least for fifteen years or so.
Verla served as treasurer for an organization formed to resist this plan, an organization which included a neighbor who is a retired petroleum geologist who prepared and presented several detailed analyses of the local geology which raised serious questions regarding the safety of ripping and crushing in an area of questionable stability (old underground coal mines lace the neighborhood and a couple of homes sit right at the base of the bluff.) He also identified several outright misstatements on applications to the State minerals development board and challenged claims submitted to the State Department of Health regarding ability to meet noise and dust management requirements. The state took the position that it would be up to the county to monitor the process for compliance with the rules and report any instances of non-compliance.
Other than that, the state declared the question of suitability an issue for the county to decide. It mattered not that the fundamental proposition ran counter to the county's Master Plan, a growth guidance document which the people of Delta County had approved.
The Denver attorney we had retained for counsel and guidance advised us that we could challenge the whole thing in court, but it was likely that such action would simply amount to spending a lot of the group's money to end up exactly where we were.
So we decided to accede to the operation of the quarry and simply monitor as best we could their compliance with the noise and dust rules. And accept the negative impact on the property values of the near neighbors and the addition of heavy tractor trailers full of gravel on our only paved road.
So much for our first real involvement with "citizen participation".
Paul Priest
Sequim
El and Bill
New member
Public participation doesn't mean that results will always be what you want, and that certainly (in our opinion) doesn't negate the importance of making your views known.
Like in most counties, the county commissioners (the elected representatives of the people) have the final vote -- therefore, unless you represented the minority of voters in your county, it is time for citizen participation in the voting process next election time to affect change.
We all know from experience that public participation doesn't always end the way we want -- but with an elective government, it is our responsibility to campaign for, and support by voting for, the folks who most represent our views -- in the long haul, in our wonderful country, we are the government and they are us -- so only be making our views known through public participation does democracy work.
ps -- Today I wrote my US senators three times and the Pres once on issues I believe to be important.
Like in most counties, the county commissioners (the elected representatives of the people) have the final vote -- therefore, unless you represented the minority of voters in your county, it is time for citizen participation in the voting process next election time to affect change.
We all know from experience that public participation doesn't always end the way we want -- but with an elective government, it is our responsibility to campaign for, and support by voting for, the folks who most represent our views -- in the long haul, in our wonderful country, we are the government and they are us -- so only be making our views known through public participation does democracy work.
ps -- Today I wrote my US senators three times and the Pres once on issues I believe to be important.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I admire Bill's optimism.
However, having written my share of public comment letters, personal letters to members of Congress, letters to editors, and spoken at public gatherings expressing support or concern regarding various issues only to see elected or appointed officials display both lack of concern and interest for opinions presented I find myself inclined toward the view that the glass is half empty - often due, I suspect, to the number of straws drinking therefrom.
Paul Priest
Sequim
However, having written my share of public comment letters, personal letters to members of Congress, letters to editors, and spoken at public gatherings expressing support or concern regarding various issues only to see elected or appointed officials display both lack of concern and interest for opinions presented I find myself inclined toward the view that the glass is half empty - often due, I suspect, to the number of straws drinking therefrom.
Paul Priest
Sequim
The way you'll stop something like this dead in its tracks and hit them in the pocket book takes a little time. But it is worth it! A Quarry operation like that has to have a Clean Water Act NPDES Permit for waste water discharge. NPDES stands for National Pollution Discharge Elimination System permits. There is a STRICT set of water quality parameters that makes permit compliance really tough for the quarry operators. The best part of the compliance end is the quarry operators have to sample, analyze, and submit the compliance report to the state on a routine basis. In most cases it is monthly, otherwise it could be quarterly. The samples are submitted to a regulatory agency approved lab and the operators report the results to the regulatory agency. Typically state regulators let the noncompliance on these CWA NPDES permit requirements slide. This is where the public can intervene.
Under the Freedom of Information Act ANY CITIZEN can request these results on a monthly basis. If the quarry operator is out of compliance on one or more parameters of the permit, a citizen can DEMAND the state, in this case Colorado, take action to enforce compliance or issue an order the cease operation of the quarry. If the state refuses, any citizen can file suit in federal court to enforce immediate compliance. Court outcomes of this type usually are real nasty for the operators.
I used this strategy with my Dad in the 80's on a state permitted sanitary landfill in another state.... same federal law though.
The cost to him was $250.00 filing fee and the lawyers took it on a 30% cut of the judgement. Bottom line... my dad won. A judgement of $1,275,000.00 was rendered by the court. One half went to some environmental fund chosen by my father (for some ducks refuge on an island in the upper Ohio River), the other half went to my dad less the 30% for the lawyers cut.
Bottom line... the landfill was closed. A state CERCLA (Comprehensive Environmental Remediation Compensation Liability Act, a.k.a Superfund) Program is in charge for discharge monitoring and compliance for the next 30 years.
The really bad part about this is... the damage has to be done before you can take action. Good luck and don't give up! Butch
Under the Freedom of Information Act ANY CITIZEN can request these results on a monthly basis. If the quarry operator is out of compliance on one or more parameters of the permit, a citizen can DEMAND the state, in this case Colorado, take action to enforce compliance or issue an order the cease operation of the quarry. If the state refuses, any citizen can file suit in federal court to enforce immediate compliance. Court outcomes of this type usually are real nasty for the operators.
I used this strategy with my Dad in the 80's on a state permitted sanitary landfill in another state.... same federal law though.
The cost to him was $250.00 filing fee and the lawyers took it on a 30% cut of the judgement. Bottom line... my dad won. A judgement of $1,275,000.00 was rendered by the court. One half went to some environmental fund chosen by my father (for some ducks refuge on an island in the upper Ohio River), the other half went to my dad less the 30% for the lawyers cut.
Bottom line... the landfill was closed. A state CERCLA (Comprehensive Environmental Remediation Compensation Liability Act, a.k.a Superfund) Program is in charge for discharge monitoring and compliance for the next 30 years.
The really bad part about this is... the damage has to be done before you can take action. Good luck and don't give up! Butch