Choosing Between Various Heaters and Stoves

Charlie-

Nice find on the Wallas instructions from the Dragonfly Forum!

Two or more things really need to be done regarding these heater / stove topics.

1.) A separate forum for Heaters and Stoves needs to be established to separate them from the rest of the Cabin, Interior topics.

2.) The forum needs to be divided into

A. Wallas Stove Topics, with a Documents and Manuals Section. Photo section included.

B. (an) Other Stoves and Heaters section. Photo section included.

I know this might be a lot of work, but finding information on specific stove and heater problems can be difficult.

This A/B division might be complicated or impossible if some of the threads contain discussions of both Wallas and other stoves and heaters, but cutting them out of the rest of the cabin, Interior Forum would be useful itself, including their photos.

Just another crazy idea for $0.02 (minus, of course, a %-age for 700 points off the Dow Jones Industrial Average so far, today)! :sad

Joe. :teeth :thup :thdown :?:
 
Concur Joe. Of course, we don't have to do it. I'd be glad to give it a crack if I had the permissions....

Dow :shock: :shock:

Sure glad I'm gonna work for another 5 years or so and don't need my retirement accounts right away! Maybe they'll be back up by then! :wink

Charlie
 
I'm bringing this topic back up to answer an email that won't transmit for me:

Re: Propane heaters and stoves:


Do you have a photo of the installation for these, or have you shown this
> previously. I do not like my Wallas, I prefer propane.
>
> MikeC



Mike-

The photo story of my installation is in the detail photos that are under the "Cabin, Interior" Forum. My installation starts on the second line of photos and has full details:

See here:

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php

Let me know if you have questons. There is a specific thread about the installation somewhere, but it's hard to find.

Joe.
 
Two thoughts regarding propane: Composite tanks are now available and might be a valid alternative to Alloy.

Also propane contains a lot of moisture that is released as it burns, if used in a non-vented installation you may have condensation issues.
 
Westfield 11":3czbcb5j said:
Two thoughts regarding propane: Composite tanks are now available and might be a valid alternative to Alloy.

Good idea! Although anodized aluminum has also been available for years, I just keep by 5 gallon steel tank painted reasonably well.



Also propane contains a lot of moisture that is released as it burns, if used in a non-vented installation you may have condensation issues.
Click to expand...

Of course, all combustion produces CO2 and H2O, that's why my Force 10 heater is vented and there's a vent over the 3 burner cooktop stove. This vent could be fan powered if necessary, though I haven't seen the need for it yet.


On my other, bigger, boat, I just run a Honda 1000i generator on the back corner of the transom and use an electric heater and microwave. The boat also has an alcohol/electric Kenyon combination cooking stove, but I prefer not to mess with the pressurized alcohol, and the electric heating elements take too much power for the small Honda generator, as do the electric heating elements in the water heater. They all work find on Shore Power, though.

We also have an electric toaster oven, refrigerator, coffee maker, TV, Stereo, electric blanket, etc. The only drawback to the generator is the noise and the occasional refilling of the gas tank. A Coleman propane transom stove also allows outside propane burners as well as a grille and griddle.

If you've got a lot of battery power, an inverter gives you another way to crank up the 120-V options. We have one of these on the 22 as well, and I use the generator on the 22 also.

I also just added a Mr. Buddy heater for use in the enclosed cockpits of either boat, where ventilation is not an issue.

I like the idea of having multiple systems to choose from for adaptability.

How about a towable dinghy with a 4 -6.5 kw generator sealed/enclosed in it and an electric motor for driving around? Add an extension cord and rigid v-bridle, and you could tolerate towing through some moderate chop as well. (On Edit: I know this would be impractical in the open ocean or large, rough bays, but on a relatively calm body of water, it would give you a nice power source removed from the immediate boat for noise control, and give you some added transportation to run around in when anchored or shore/docked. We tow a jet ski around with a v-bridle made of 3" PVC pipe and filled with flotation and elastic and rigid cords that allows comfortable towing and can even accommodate backing up, since the bridle is longer than the towed boat.) Never hurts to explore some new ideas just to see how far you can make them go and perhaps come up with something workable.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
All the Mr. Buddy heater adds say that they last 108 hours. Do they mean that the heating filament or something else will wear out sometime after that so that you have to replace the heater?

Allan
 
Jeanie P":jrtk5fzx said:
All the Mr. Buddy heater adds say that they last 108 hours. Do they mean that the heating filament or something else will wear out sometime after that so that you have to replace the heater?

Allan
Click to expand...

Allan-

I think they're talking about the running time on a 20 lb (5 gallon) external tank.

The heater will run 3-6 hours on a 1 lb. propane disposable cyclinder (3 hrs on high, 6 hrs on low.)

It will burn 110 hrs on the 20 lb external tank with the adapter hose.

From their WEBSITE:

"Specifications:
• Model No. MH9B
• Stock No. F273400
• Output: 4,000 - 9,000 BTU/HR.
• Gas: Propane
• Operating Position: Vertical
• Valve Position: Pilot, Lo and Hi
• 1 lb. Cylinder: 3 - 6 Hours
• 20 lb. Cylinder: 48 - 110 Hours
• Overall Dimensions (LxWxH): 14 in. x 7 in. x 14 in.
• Shipping Weight: 8 lbs."

If you want to buy one, I'd recommend you use Amazon or some similar shopping service to find the cheapest source, since the price can vary from about $80-$110, plus shipping and/or tax. Free shipping and no tax (out of state), will also help save $$$.

You can also get one at Wal-Mart for $79.97. Shipping may be free from store to store, but you will pay your state tax.

or

Northern Toll and Equipment for $74.95 plus shipping, and tax if they have a store in your state.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
We are also considering adding another heater other than the Wallas cooktop. I am looking for advise/experience on the mounting location for a Webasto or Espar in our Tomcat 2007 and any pictures. The goal is to add heat/defrost to the windows as well as overall cabin heat.

Fred

Alli Cat
 
Concerning any issues involving Wallas stoves, ovens or furnaces, please use only current, authorized reference materials. These can be found at one of two sites:

www.scanmarineusa.com Go to Tech Talk and look for the papers in .pdf.

or

www.wallas.fi Click the "English" option unless you are a Finn.

Current materials are very important. Changes and improvements to Wallas products are ongoing. Important features can be absent from outdated reference guides.

Finally, please contact us at Scan Marine for troubleshooting. We can help in most cases, M-F, 9-5.

Thanks for using Wallas!
 
Hey macmac, thanks for being a part of this forum. As you can see, many of us have your products, many love them and many, well lets say, don't. You can help with that last part, an interactive factory rep means a lot to us.

Keep in touch. BTW, I love my Wallas!

Charlie
 
1TUBERIDER":2bzazrn9 said:
Hey Joe

What heater would work on the jet ski? javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Click to expand...

1TUBERIDER:

It depends on where you are and how cold it is:

Moderately Cold- 3/16" Neoprene wet suit with boots, gloves and hood.

Very Cold- Dry suit with gloves, boots, goggles, Ben Gay on your backside, and a couple of Jon-e hand warmers under your armpits.

Extremely Cold-Just buy an airline ticket to somewhere in the Caribbean and take a very friendly warm woman with you!


Cheers!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
For your reference, here is a photo of the secondary heater in Sea Skipper. It is Taylor’s pressurized kerosene heater, no electric power required - utilizes 1” flue. Fan mounted aft of flue can be aimed to direct a warm blast of air clear across the forward windows for demisting.

Kerosene_Heater_1.jpg
 
I love my Wallas. Surprisingly, even on somewhat cold nights (about 15 degrees) it stays pretty darn warm in my CD22, but a half ways decent sleeping bag is a must. Actually, come to think of it, I've spent a few of them sleeping in it when it is that cold out in the early and late shoulder season. I have tented it before in those temperatures and I would say that the Wallas keeps the cabin in the low 60s. If there is any sun at all, it will even actually get uncomfortably warm in the boat with it running wide open if all the windows are closed and it is in the 20s-30s like it has been for the Homer King Salmon Derby. If the temps are in the high 40s and 50s the stove is normally only on the medium low setting. When it is in the 20s and 30s for winter king fishing I run it wide open or just below while we troll for winter kings. If it is too much colder than the teens, go to the bar and drink something warm :)
 
Here are some cheaper options for heat.

Last weekend, I spent the night on my 22' boat, awakening to 35 degrees Sunday morning. I was quite comfortable with my newly purchased $12 12v electric blanket. When I awoke, I used the Coleman ProCat to warm the cabin while I searched the town for coffee. When I got back, the cabin was quite toasty.

I've also used this heater with success while underway. The only problem is that it's wet heat, which is why I'm testing a $30 400/800 watt quartz infared heater on my next outing, using it in conjunction with my new 1500 watt inverter.

Back to the 12v electric blanket. Our trawler has a Aspar diesel heater and a West Marine ceramic heater (if on shore power). The problem with these two systems is the cycling on and off through the night. Staying warm with an electric blanket allows us to enjoy the sweet sound of stillness through the night. I prefer that to a warm cabin. First one up, turns the cabin heat on.

-Greg
 
I have to caution about using unvented space heaters (even catalytic) in enclosed spaces. Consumer Product safety commission (US government agency) has done a good study on the 3000 BTU catalytic heater. They cite at least one death attributed to this heater.

Basically if the area does not have 150% turn over of the volume of air in the space during each hour, there is risk of CO poisoning. Their studies were done on 100 cu feet enclosure and regular sampling. The CO almost immediately went to 68 PPM (Parts per million). The Oxygen was depleated from 20.9% to 8.8% over the 6.5 hour life of the propane bottle. This means that the CO problem is compoiunded by low oxygen, and there is increased risk of brain damage.

One has to have an adequate CO detector (we use two--one by the head of the skipper and one by the bunk). A good alternative is the Kiddie nighthawk 900-0146 (3 AA batteries with an LCD readout, which begins at 30 PPM). The best is the Aero medix 1070 or most recent model, which reads and alarms at 10 ppm. Any of these need to be replaced on a regular basis--2 to 5 years is the life span. There are test kits available to check the sensitivity.

At 50 PPM this is the maximum level allowed by OSHA for continous work in a marine environment. Household requrements are evacuation of the level is chronicallya above 69 PPM. The carbon monoxide will continue to build up in the blood, and disassociates from the hemoblobin very poorly--it takes many hours. When there are high levels of CO in the hemoglobin, the oxygen levels are lowered.

If (and I wound use any catalytic or open flame heater) you use one, you need to have adequate ventillation; this means that the air is replaced 1.5 x in each our. These heaters are made for tents or shacks which have ventillation--not for enclosed boats--even though they are used there.

Be very careful!

Previous discussions are at: http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=8306
 
Well said Bob. I have a CO sniffer which went off while I was gone. I vented the cabin and never had a problem again. I'm not worried while underway. There is plenty of unintentional ventilation. Also, we've only used it for short bursts.

Nonetheless, it's one more reason why I'm anxious to try out the 400 watt quartz, quiet heater.

-Greg
 
The "silent killer" correct, Bob? I've been to only one case in the field and that was due to the homeowner using charcoal to heat a house. :shock: But I've heard of other cases where normal home heating systems malfunctioned, killing the resident(s). Spooky. I've used a catalytic heater in our VW camper, but I made sure our screen vents on the poptop were open. We also used it on my brother's sailboat too, but made sure we had adequate ventilation to replace the air.
 
If i were going to use a catalytic propane heater in an enclosed cain boat, I'd add two small 12 volt computer fans placed so that the ambient wind outside could not defeat their purpose.

One would be an entry port fan, the other an exit port fan.

You can calculate 1.) the cabin volume and, 2.) the air moved by the fans, to be sure you're in the safe volume/replacement ratio or %age, which are mentioned in the referenced thread by Bob.

Also, of course, the carbon monoxide monitor(s) woud be a must.

The small computer fans take negligible current (.15-.25 amps, or 1.5-2.5 Ah over a 10 hour period), so battery drain would be insignificant.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
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