Cleaning rust from stainless

Prism Polish
Prism Polish
Metal Polish and Fiberglass Deoxidizer


Prism Polish has been formulated to clean, polish and protect all metals in one easy application. Our protective coating is designed to last 3 to 6 months. Prism Polish contains no harsh acids, caustics or abrasives. it is safe to use on all metals fiberglass, gel-coat, plexiglass and painted surfaces. Prism Polish has been developed for use in the marine, aviation, automotive, motorcycle and maintenance industries. Use Prism Polish on bronze, brass, copper, stainless steel, aluminum, pewter, nickel, sterling silver, silver plate and factory blued guns.It offers the finest protection available for any chrome or stainless surface. It cleans and protects in one easy application. It restores tarnished and dull surfaces and protects against salt corrosion and rusting. Prism Polish is excellent to clean and deoxidize fiberglass, It removes cloudiness from plexiglass, clear vinyl, eisenglass or Lexan. www.prismpolish.com you can purchase on Amazon

This stuff seems popular with the Tugnuts. It's what we have been using for years.
 
hardee":11vttlnq said:
I spent some time with a metal fab shop today. The owner said I need to look into "passivating"

So I found it is a chemical process and not something I can brush on and mask around. Anyone have any practical experience with that? ]
Click to expand...
Harvey, no hands on experience here. However, a skim of this article may illustrate why passivation is never going to be a realistic answer for corrosion protection of railing or other stainless hardware installed on the boat. I think it is really only useful for original parts fresh from machining, with rigorous monitoring of the passivating materials and conditions. Too bad. BTW, I have never seen SS treated for passivation with a shiny, mirror finish. Always matte, always sort of gray. I suspect this is due to the need to avoid contamination of the surface.

http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/how-t ... teel-parts
 
I have had SS exhaust fittings fabricated for several boats. These were always passivated. As Dave describes, the surface is dull, and has a gray color.
 
OK, here's what I know:

Stainless steel is Iron + carbon, iron for the matrix/strength, carbon for more strength and hardness.

Nickel, chromium, and (sometimes like in 316) molybdenum, are added, all for anti-corrosive properties, as well as some other properties they give the alloy.

The oxides of Ni, Cr, and Mo are what actually protect the steel. The surface of stainless must consist of these oxides. These three metals readily form the oxides when exposed to air.

Any iron atoms on the surface can rust (form iron oxide or rust) with oxygen and water in the air.

When hardware is made with stainless, the various forming process of cutting, machining, welding, etc., leave loose carbon atoms on the surface.

Passivation consists of removing these iron atoms on the surface by various means, such as chemically removing them, eg., "pickling" them with citric acid, though several other processes exist, such as electro-polishing.

Some of the chemical processes etch the surface, leaving a dull, matte finish, unlike elecro-polishing.

Some polishing compounds you can buy claim to "re-passivate" stainless, although I doubt they match the industrial processes.

Waxing the stainless helps protect it for a limited time.

One thing I do know is that if you use regular steel wool, a steel brush, or a file or a similar tool on a stainless piece and then re-use the hardware piece, the contact with the regular steel will leave untold billions of iron atoms on the surface (microscopic welds are made between the regular steel and the stainless, then broken), and the hardware piece will then rust like crazy. A stainless wire brush/wheel is much better, but without re-passivation of the surface afterward, rust still shows up fairly quickly .

I learned this from a metallurgist/welding fabrication supervisor in our sailing club that worked at the Marine Division of Westinghouse in Sunnyvale, California.

Sorry about the retired science teacher blackboard drill, but still can't shake the habit! :lol:

Hope this helps!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Joe,

Thats a good summary. The link I posted has more detail for those interested.

Oh, one typo. Your first line describes ordinary steel, aka carbon steel. Not stainless until those other guys get into the act. Then comes the black magic.

That business about steel wool screwing up stainless is worth remembering. I also wonder how someone could repassivate a surface after machining or sanding it. I don't see over the counter polishes as capable of doing that.
 
AstoriaDave":2rhfc3p8 said:
Joe,

Thats a good summary. The link I posted has more detail for those interested.

Oh, one typo. Your first line describes ordinary steel, aka carbon steel. Not stainless until those other guys get into the act. Then comes the black magic.

That business about steel wool screwing up stainless is worth remembering. I also wonder how someone could repassivate a surface after machining or sanding it. I don't see over the counter polishes as capable of doing that.
Click to expand...

Dave- That's what I meant:

Iron plus carbon = steel,

then with the other elements it becomes stainless.

Thanks for the positive comments!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Joe,

No need to apologize for your methods. They worked for years, so must be perfected, and still works here -- at least for me. Thanks for the explanation.

Lesson being learned: It's good to go with the pro's.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
I agree about how to polish the stains out of stainless.. I use Bartenders Friend... acid works really easy too.

some stainless hardly shines at all...

It is the Chrome content that really sets the properties of Stainless Steel...a low grade (soft) stainless can have as low as 2% Chrome content, while a very hard, highly bright (ease to polish),very corrosion resistant stainless will have up to 17% Chrome content.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I would love to know more about Chrome....did you know that up until the early 1950's Chrome ore was mined in Tehama County (Northern California)
I don't even know what the ore looks like but it sure changes the properties of steel... years ago I played with trying to chrome plate plastic, sure wish I had kept up at it.... I could afford "the big boat"

Joel
SEA3PO
 
smckean (Tosca)":32m27sjt said:
Sorry about the retired science teacher blackboard drill.....
Click to expand...
Joe, personally I love it, thanks. I saved your explanations.

Do you know (or anyone else) what the actual chemical process is that has oxalic acid "disappear" rust?
Click to expand...

Acids are widely used in cleaning process, especially industrially, as they react easily with various chemicals and can be used to remove unwanted chemicals them from manufactured objects when needed. Indeed, "Acid Bath" is a common industrial process.

As far as the oxalic acid in Bar Keeper's Friend removing rust, here's a quote from Wikipedia:

"Oxalic acid's main applications include cleaning or bleaching, especially for the removal of rust (iron complexing agent). Bar Keepers Friend is an example of a household cleaner containing oxalic acid. Its utility in rust removal agents is due to its forming a stable, water soluble salt with ferric iron, ferrioxalate ion." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid#Cleaning

So it reacts with the rust to form a compound that dissolves in water and washes away.

More questions? Ask Dave, our Resident Chemist Emeritus, who's way ahead of a Retired High School Science Teacher :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
The acid dissolves the rust, putting the iron into solution as Fe+3, which complexes with the oxalate ion, C2O4-2, forming ferric oxalate, or a soluble variant. Oxalate or oxalic acid is an efficient iron complexer, to the extent that foods high in it such as rhubarb are not recommended for folks who are iron deficient. But, it does do a job on rust.

I have heard of the use of a paste made of water and oxalic acid to scrub rust off stainless brightwork. Anybody use that?
 
When cruising in the sailboats, we kept at least a pound of powdered oxalic acid aboard. At times we used that as a paste to clean SS, as well as stains on the teak decks. Be sure and handle the powdered oxalic acid with nitrile or latex glovers on! I used a paste last night to remove some stains in the bowel of our bathroom sink yesterday.

On the C Dory I find the Barkeeper's Friend to be an excellent product to keep aboard for many reasons--including getting blood stains off the fiberglass, as well as removing the waterway "smile".
 
So here is a new twist.

The basics: The bars are 304 Stainless, with welded seams and some loops of the same material welded onto them. They have been polished to a "brushed - not quite matte, finished. One week of use, on salt water, and one day of really good salt water dousing and the rust is showing up.

An option: We have a powder coating facility here in town, "Dog House powder coating" with a pretty good reputation. Talking with the owner there, he offered this: A clear coat powder coating. Do it over the polished stainless 304 and call it good. Service for some pieces that he has done that way for the Coast Guard is going on 10 years -- he says.

My Thoughts and Questions: Could that really work? Doesn't stainless need access to air to NOT RUST? This is not a piece that would be getting metal dings and chips, and if it works like he says it could be a cure. What am I missing? Would it need the pacification done first?

Thoughts appreciated.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
We had a stainless cover over the boats shore power outlet. The only place rust showed up was under a clear plastic sticker. Remove sticker polish and the rust is gone not to reappear as yet. The polish I previously recommended has a protectant built in. Fresh water rinsing can't hurt. Powder coating would be a disaster I think as the rust would lift the coating. I don't know if I have ever seen powder coated stainless. There are two types of powder coating one has the metal hot and it is dipped into a dry air bath with the color. The other the metal is cold and the coating is hot. That normally does not work as well. Should have sprung for 316. Is this for your radar pedestal?
D.D.
 
Harvey, as I understand the process, to get good adhesion on SS you are going to have to bead blast, sand blast, and or etch (phosphate), which is going to change the nature of the surface. It is also desirable to passivate the stainless (different way of "calming" it down.. :)

When I see SS oxidizing badly, it makes me wonder about the quality of the alloy.

I would find out exactly what process the coater uses, to prep the SS, and then ask to see the SS which was treated on the CG vessel, before investing.

Powder coating can be very durable, but it can also chip, and degrade with time.
 
I am bringing this post back because of a product I found that worked really well on our boat.
In early spring I spent a lot of time buffing waxing and detailing our boat. I wanted to use good quality products and since many of you have recommended Collinite wax, that is what I went with. I was very happy with how it worked. While ordering the wax from their site. I saw that they make a Metal Wax No. 850 "Removes Corrosion & Prevents Rust". I decided to try some. I was amazed at how well it cleaned up the light rust and salt deposits on the stainless steel railings, Radar arch, rocket launchers, rod holders and cleats. They all were starting to look pretty shabby. This stuff took it off with almost no effort. Just wipe it on let dry to a haze and wipe off. I was very happy with how it turned out and after a month off fishing and being moored up at Sekiu none of the rust has returned and it cleaned up very well.
I would imagine that it does have Oxalic acid in it and who knows what else.
I have not seen it mentioned on the site before, so I just thought I would recommend it to anyone looking for a good stainless cleaning wax.
 
Back
Top