aknelson820
New member
I seem to have a problem with condensation at night when sleeping on the boat. I have tried a fan having the hatch open and there moisture on the walls in the v-berth. any way to fight this. :roll:
condensation
- Thread starter aknelson820
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One of the "side effects" of living in WA. also gluing some foam to the overhead will help. I have used flexable closed cell PvC foam, and back packking paes, then cover with a perferated vinyl covering. Also a small air space and the vinyl. (Put 1/4" battons across, and glue or stape to those. The more air circulation, the less condensation.
journey on
New member
We just got back from Vancouver Isle, etc. and for the first thyme we had condensation in the v-berth and in the cabin area bilge. This only happened when it rained, got cold and the boat was closed up. You haven't lived until you've tried to put on damp (but clean) underwear.
Clearly, the moisture in the air condensed when it met the cold outside hull, deck, and especially the metal of the hatch in the V-berth. Insulation will stop the heat transfer from inside to outside, and hopefully keep the moisture from condensing.
This leads me to the conclusion that it's not only necessary to insulate the overhead as Bob indicated, but it’s even more important to insulate the hull, especially when it’s below the waterline. Compared to other climes, the sea water in Canada is cold.
I have 2 choices: ¼’ cork 12x12 squares, or using the gallon of Mascoat in the garage. I’m choosing the latter. The V-berth is small enough, without using up more space.
Boris
Clearly, the moisture in the air condensed when it met the cold outside hull, deck, and especially the metal of the hatch in the V-berth. Insulation will stop the heat transfer from inside to outside, and hopefully keep the moisture from condensing.
This leads me to the conclusion that it's not only necessary to insulate the overhead as Bob indicated, but it’s even more important to insulate the hull, especially when it’s below the waterline. Compared to other climes, the sea water in Canada is cold.
I have 2 choices: ¼’ cork 12x12 squares, or using the gallon of Mascoat in the garage. I’m choosing the latter. The V-berth is small enough, without using up more space.
Boris
We have rarely had moisture in the V-birth, maybe once. Procedure we use. Center window is always open, at least to the 1" or so where it can be "locked" open. The forward hatch cover is open the same, and the sliding window opposite the dock is open about 4 inches, unless it is raining. (Sure wish that C-dory would extend the roof out about another 2-3". Would make leaving the window open without water running off the roof and into the window possible.) The forward hatch and center window are OK to leave open in the manner posted, unless it is pounding rain.
In the morning, fire up the Wallas and warm the underwear first. The advantage of that is that it will also dry the cabin out :hot by the time the underwear, LJ's or ...... is warm.
Harvey
SleepyC
In the morning, fire up the Wallas and warm the underwear first. The advantage of that is that it will also dry the cabin out :hot by the time the underwear, LJ's or ...... is warm.
Harvey
SleepyC
First I agree with Boris, you have to insulate the hull as far down as you can get. You don't get much condensation, until it is high humidity: rain, cold etc. Also the hatch needs to be covered. We have "shades" over the tatch covers, and can put foam between the windshade and the hatch.
hardee":1lnijq1y said:
Harvey-
I remember B~C making some cover-over / deflectors for the side sliding windows to keep the rain out while leaving them open.
Look through his album and / or PM him to get the photos and find the thread.
On Edit:
Here's the photos:
Joe. :teeth :thup
Attachments
journey on
New member
I hate condensation/water inside the cabin, especially the V-berth. So, a couple of additional comments.
First, when it's raining outside, CLOSE ALL WINDOWS. We/I left a side window open in Lagoon Cove, tied up at the dock. When I got up in the morn to use the head, I stepped on wet carpet. Rain had come in the port side window, run down the side of the hull, through the back of the lazerette and soaked the beer carton, the rug, got the vacuum cleaner, etc. Took a couple of days to dry out.
Of course, closing the windows ensures that it becomes humid inside. .That's better than rain, I guess
Second, getting warm air from the Wallis to the V-berth in a C-25 is not an easy job. The Wallis heater fan blows right across the cabin, not forward. So, I use a heat driven Ecofan on the stove, to blow air towards the V-berth. The problem is to get enough heat into the V-berth and keeping it there long enough to do some good. That's where insulation helps, reducing the heat loss so the V-berth has a chance of keeping warm.
If you're tied up to the dock and connected to shore power, an electric heater sure helps.
I'm willing to stay in bed until the underwear dries, but Judy wants me up before noon. I'd rather keep it dry to begin with.
Boris
First, when it's raining outside, CLOSE ALL WINDOWS. We/I left a side window open in Lagoon Cove, tied up at the dock. When I got up in the morn to use the head, I stepped on wet carpet. Rain had come in the port side window, run down the side of the hull, through the back of the lazerette and soaked the beer carton, the rug, got the vacuum cleaner, etc. Took a couple of days to dry out.
Of course, closing the windows ensures that it becomes humid inside. .That's better than rain, I guess
Second, getting warm air from the Wallis to the V-berth in a C-25 is not an easy job. The Wallis heater fan blows right across the cabin, not forward. So, I use a heat driven Ecofan on the stove, to blow air towards the V-berth. The problem is to get enough heat into the V-berth and keeping it there long enough to do some good. That's where insulation helps, reducing the heat loss so the V-berth has a chance of keeping warm.
If you're tied up to the dock and connected to shore power, an electric heater sure helps.
I'm willing to stay in bed until the underwear dries, but Judy wants me up before noon. I'd rather keep it dry to begin with.
Boris
Boris-
Please keep your powder dry! Your shorts, too!
A computer fan and a 3" corrugated tube can be used to route warm air form the heater vicinity to the v-berth or to wherever you want, but I'm not sure if your wife will think it kosher if it's hooked up to your shorts!
Joe. (It's Saturday night, OK?) :teeth :thup
Please keep your powder dry! Your shorts, too!
A computer fan and a 3" corrugated tube can be used to route warm air form the heater vicinity to the v-berth or to wherever you want, but I'm not sure if your wife will think it kosher if it's hooked up to your shorts!
Joe. (It's Saturday night, OK?) :teeth :thup
Joe, Thanks for the tip on the window covers (B~C style). They do look good, and looks like they would certainly help. I will do some looking into his methods.
I didn't think about the difference in acreage between the 22 and 25. We do not have an Ecofan, but have considered them and if we find the right deal may go ahead with one. I know there are 2 types, 2 and 3 bladed. Most seem to have the 2, just wondering if it is the expense of the 3 or that it just does not do that much more for the extra expense.
Thanks Joe, this is truly a wonderful site, and you are an extra special asset here.
Harvey
SleepyC
I didn't think about the difference in acreage between the 22 and 25. We do not have an Ecofan, but have considered them and if we find the right deal may go ahead with one. I know there are 2 types, 2 and 3 bladed. Most seem to have the 2, just wondering if it is the expense of the 3 or that it just does not do that much more for the extra expense.
Thanks Joe, this is truly a wonderful site, and you are an extra special asset here.
Harvey
SleepyC
We have tried the ECO fan vs just the Wallas fan. Generally we don't leave the Wallas on after we go to bed. But to heat the foreward cabin on the 25 (or any of the bunch) we use the "cheap O2 fan $11 from WalMart a couple of years ago, or the "endless breeze" higher end fan. that way you can really move some air in all parts of the boat.
Agree with Boris, that electric heat is great. We use the ceramic heater on low (can be powered with the EU 1000 Honda Generator if you wish). We used that to dry out some clothes on one really nasty day we had in AK this summer.
Agree with Boris, that electric heat is great. We use the ceramic heater on low (can be powered with the EU 1000 Honda Generator if you wish). We used that to dry out some clothes on one really nasty day we had in AK this summer.
amy and karl
New member
We installed an Airtronic D2 by Espar about six months ago and are very pleased with the results. We wanted an alternative heat source should we have problems with our Wallas. We now only use the Wallas to cook with.
We took a two week trip up the discovery coast this summer and were very glad we had the Espar furnace. We had three days of straight rain and were able to dry our raincoats and other wet clothes fairly quickly. As far as condensation in the berth, we are able to turn the register so the hot air goes directly into the berth eliminating the condensation buildup.
Our register is located in the helm footlocker. From there with a rotating register you can heat the cabin or the berth. A gallon of diesel lasts about three days for us with nearly continuous use. We only wish this would have been an option when we ordered the boat.
Happy boating,
karl on C-Daisy
We took a two week trip up the discovery coast this summer and were very glad we had the Espar furnace. We had three days of straight rain and were able to dry our raincoats and other wet clothes fairly quickly. As far as condensation in the berth, we are able to turn the register so the hot air goes directly into the berth eliminating the condensation buildup.
Our register is located in the helm footlocker. From there with a rotating register you can heat the cabin or the berth. A gallon of diesel lasts about three days for us with nearly continuous use. We only wish this would have been an option when we ordered the boat.
Happy boating,
karl on C-Daisy
aknelson820
New member
thanks guys, I now have some more ideas to try. we are going to Cornet Bay on sept 11 for 3 days so I will know then.
Karl,
Nice hot idea and sounds really good. Do you have other photos of the Airtronic D2 by Espar and the installation? Curious how much space it is taking. Any chance the Wallas and Espar can use a common fuel tank? Have a link to previous discussion.
Maybe we can see it when you come up to Sequim (?) for the CBGT in a couple weeks.
Nice work and travel safe,
Harvey
SleepyC
Nice hot idea and sounds really good. Do you have other photos of the Airtronic D2 by Espar and the installation? Curious how much space it is taking. Any chance the Wallas and Espar can use a common fuel tank? Have a link to previous discussion.
Maybe we can see it when you come up to Sequim (?) for the CBGT in a couple weeks.
Nice work and travel safe,
Harvey
SleepyC
amy and karl
New member
Hi Harvey,
there are other pics in our album. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Weather permitting we will be at the Sequim Bay gathering so you can look at it then.
Karl
P.S. Yes we run both units off the stock Wallas tank.
there are other pics in our album. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Weather permitting we will be at the Sequim Bay gathering so you can look at it then.
Karl
P.S. Yes we run both units off the stock Wallas tank.
I'm with you Harvey. This is very interesting and more info would be appreciated. The Wallas is less than effecient at heating up the cabin (at least in my limited experience with it). Meredith does not like to be cold, so anything I can do to make the cabin warm would be a huge plus.
I believe those heaters are German made? I'm a little familiar with old Eberspacher gas heaters that were used in VWs back in the late 60's/early 70's. I've even seen them restored and one buddy I know has one that is thermostatically controlled WITH a timer. He says that thing will roast him out of his car in the dead of winter if he cranks it up full.
I believe those heaters are German made? I'm a little familiar with old Eberspacher gas heaters that were used in VWs back in the late 60's/early 70's. I've even seen them restored and one buddy I know has one that is thermostatically controlled WITH a timer. He says that thing will roast him out of his car in the dead of winter if he cranks it up full.
Wallas makes a diesel forced air heater just like the Espar one. We have one on Kingfisher II which has more volume than a CD25 due to the high roofline.
We regularly leave it on Low on cold nights with a couple of windows cracked and TWO CO detectors running just in case.
It uses a single hole inlet exhaust, runs on the same fuel as the Wallas cooktop, is pretty quiet on low settings and is less temperamental than the cooktop although it does need good battery power to start.
Turn it up to full first thing in the morning and it even dries out the condensation caused by the propane stove.
Has up to 3 adjustable ducts.
We like it in spite of our PITA experience with the Wallas cooktop.
Merv & Kathy
We regularly leave it on Low on cold nights with a couple of windows cracked and TWO CO detectors running just in case.
It uses a single hole inlet exhaust, runs on the same fuel as the Wallas cooktop, is pretty quiet on low settings and is less temperamental than the cooktop although it does need good battery power to start.
Turn it up to full first thing in the morning and it even dries out the condensation caused by the propane stove.
Has up to 3 adjustable ducts.
We like it in spite of our PITA experience with the Wallas cooktop.
Merv & Kathy
To my knowledge, Espar and Webasto make similar forced air diesel heaters, and they can be used in boats like ours, of course, but their smallest models can overheat a smaller boat like the 22, or even the 25 in more moderate climates. In smaller boats and more moderate settings, they can cycle on and off a lot, keeping folks awake. These are both German makes of heaters.
Toyotomi, (Japanese, of course) also makes forced air diesel heaters with the same basic characteristics, but if I'm correct, the firing method is more wick-like in the Toyotomi, whereas in the former two the diesel is sprayed into the combustion chamber more like a shop style space heater, although the exhaust goes outside, and the heat is absorbed in a heat exchanger fanned by the forced air circulation.
The reason I'm unsure about their internal functioning is that the information you can get on their sites is limited, sometimes only amounting to a few claims and diagrams, and not anything like a full technical write up. They must think we're a bunch of dummies, no???
The real questions I'd have to ask myself before choosing one of these heaters are these:
1. Do I need that much heat? (BTU's)
2. Is the heater too large for my boat, forcing it to cycle on and off all night, keeping me awake? (assuming a thermostat, these units don't work on high, medium, and low, or infinitely adjustable settings. They're ON or OFF!)
3. Can I afford the space to install it, the ducting, and it's fuel tank?
4. Is the heater worth the cost, which is usually $2000-$3000 when installed?
5. Would another alternative like a propane heater (such as the Dickinson Propane Fireplace @ ~$1000) or a generator (Honda 2000i=$900) and an electric heater ($60) work just as well for me?
Not trying to stir up a controversy, just food for thought!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Toyotomi, (Japanese, of course) also makes forced air diesel heaters with the same basic characteristics, but if I'm correct, the firing method is more wick-like in the Toyotomi, whereas in the former two the diesel is sprayed into the combustion chamber more like a shop style space heater, although the exhaust goes outside, and the heat is absorbed in a heat exchanger fanned by the forced air circulation.
The reason I'm unsure about their internal functioning is that the information you can get on their sites is limited, sometimes only amounting to a few claims and diagrams, and not anything like a full technical write up. They must think we're a bunch of dummies, no???
The real questions I'd have to ask myself before choosing one of these heaters are these:
1. Do I need that much heat? (BTU's)
2. Is the heater too large for my boat, forcing it to cycle on and off all night, keeping me awake? (assuming a thermostat, these units don't work on high, medium, and low, or infinitely adjustable settings. They're ON or OFF!)
3. Can I afford the space to install it, the ducting, and it's fuel tank?
4. Is the heater worth the cost, which is usually $2000-$3000 when installed?
5. Would another alternative like a propane heater (such as the Dickinson Propane Fireplace @ ~$1000) or a generator (Honda 2000i=$900) and an electric heater ($60) work just as well for me?
Not trying to stir up a controversy, just food for thought!
Joe. :teeth :thup