Cool things I saw at the boat show
- Thread starter starcrafttom
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starcrafttom
Active member
Harvey- The system will support up to 4 units linked together. You need 4 for a twin diesel boat.
I post this stuff to discuss what it will do and what it will not do. Is it a good product or a bad product. I DO not post this thread for the " you dont need that because i would not use it and if you think you do you dont boat right" crowd. If that offended you please stop following this Topic or I will just delete the topic and spend my time in more use full pursuits then sharing knowledge and innovation here with grump old men.
Up next is the fridge that I want to put in my boat. If you dont like cold food no need to read further.
I post this stuff to discuss what it will do and what it will not do. Is it a good product or a bad product. I DO not post this thread for the " you dont need that because i would not use it and if you think you do you dont boat right" crowd. If that offended you please stop following this Topic or I will just delete the topic and spend my time in more use full pursuits then sharing knowledge and innovation here with grump old men.
Up next is the fridge that I want to put in my boat. If you dont like cold food no need to read further.
Cindie and I have been searching for New inflatable PFDs with an emphasis on comfort and storage for safety items. Ours have done pretty well for us but at 8 years old, with multiple firings behind them, are beyond my comfort level for a safety item. Other safety items built of like materials generally have 3-5 year service guarantees.
I am sure if you kept one stored away out of light/heat and unused, it may last longer but that is not the case for us.
After looking around the show, we scored two of these with free recharge kits for just over 200 bucks from LFS.
http://www.onyxoutdoor.com/p/a-m-24-del ... kets?pp=24
I was planning to spend much more and we have tried other brands/models, but these fit really uniquely and comfortably and the pockets are really well done.
On the fuel meter topic, more data can be great especially if you can't otherwise "see" the fuel in your tanks with any accuracy. Our boat is so simple that I have a gauge made of tape with markings on one of our tanks so I can accurately "gauge" remaining fuel. It has worked well enough for us so far but I know some of the C-dorys have tanks that are not so visible. That visibility becomes comfort and confidence pretty easily while a bouncing gauge only chips away at those positive feelings.
Too much data can be a problem as well if the data is mis-interpreted or not effectively accessable. Heck I make a good living solving that problem for others.
Greg
I am sure if you kept one stored away out of light/heat and unused, it may last longer but that is not the case for us.
After looking around the show, we scored two of these with free recharge kits for just over 200 bucks from LFS.
http://www.onyxoutdoor.com/p/a-m-24-del ... kets?pp=24
I was planning to spend much more and we have tried other brands/models, but these fit really uniquely and comfortably and the pockets are really well done.
On the fuel meter topic, more data can be great especially if you can't otherwise "see" the fuel in your tanks with any accuracy. Our boat is so simple that I have a gauge made of tape with markings on one of our tanks so I can accurately "gauge" remaining fuel. It has worked well enough for us so far but I know some of the C-dorys have tanks that are not so visible. That visibility becomes comfort and confidence pretty easily while a bouncing gauge only chips away at those positive feelings.
Too much data can be a problem as well if the data is mis-interpreted or not effectively accessable. Heck I make a good living solving that problem for others.
Greg
You apparently do not do long distance cruising, in unpredictable conditions. Don't knock those who do, and use the latest technology to be safe. Seems to me that you were very dependent on a refrigerator only a short time ago. Seems to me that photos if your boat revealed one of those very un-necessary new fangled, expensive chart plotters/sounders.
As for measuring fuel consumption, before the electronics?--in our power boats and some long distance sailboats. , we had calibrated containers, and timed how long it took to run a measured amount. At the least this was inconvenient and tedious.
I would have loved to have had some accurate and reasonably inexpensive way to determine fuel use and tank level Instead, we dipped the tanks with a "calibrated" wooden dowel.
Back when I was sailing in the Columbia and Snake rivers, I didn't have to worry about fuel consumption. There was always current and usually wind sooooo you sail up river until there isn't wind, and then drift back down river to the launch.
On the C-Dory, my fuel gauge is the translucent tanks that are visible from the helm.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
On the C-Dory, my fuel gauge is the translucent tanks that are visible from the helm.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
starcrafttom
Active member
One last thing about the fuel flow gauge. I brought it up so that people will see they have a choice. Up until now there have been few choices other then your engine management system. Good on new motors but does not apply to my honda 225 from 2006. Then there is the flow scan. Nice unit . Been around a long time, well built with lots of information but not always in a very useful format. Its great to know your total burn and your current fuel burn (gph) but unless you have a calculator in hand it does you little real good.
This device allows you to see in a quick glance how far you can go. It shows you on a map that at your current speed and fuel remaining you can go this far on a map, it draws a circle. It will do this every time you get on the boat. Example -- I fish or crab out of everett. I do not burn a full tank each time. It would be great that when I come down to the boat I know at a glance whether or not I can get to Point no point and back or if I should go hit the gas dock. Yes I could get out the maps and dividers and make a guess on my fuel burn OR I can KNOW what its going to be. This is why I have a flow scan now but its very limited in its accuracy for this use.
The other use is learning to gauge your best performance at speed and trim. You might say that its not worth the cost but I think it is. So I hover around 2.2 to 2.5 mpg ( yes standard miles because that's how I roll) I know this from taking the flow scan info, analog gauge, and my gps speed over ground and doing the math. The analog gauge is is not very accurate. If I can make accurately trim the boat with this new gauge(I hope) then my current set up what would it save me.??
2.25-2.5=.25 x 100 gallons ( my fuel tanks) is a extra 25 miles or 11 gallons at current price near my house $2.65 is $29.50 x 24 fill ups ( we get at least 2 trips a month on average ) = 699.6 dollars. that is more then twice of the cost of the unit. Could take two years to get that but it does not take a lot of difference in mpg to pay for this unit. And at $299 compared to flow scans 500 to $900 price range I like this unit a lot. it will save my dad about $2000 to equip his twin diesel.
This device allows you to see in a quick glance how far you can go. It shows you on a map that at your current speed and fuel remaining you can go this far on a map, it draws a circle. It will do this every time you get on the boat. Example -- I fish or crab out of everett. I do not burn a full tank each time. It would be great that when I come down to the boat I know at a glance whether or not I can get to Point no point and back or if I should go hit the gas dock. Yes I could get out the maps and dividers and make a guess on my fuel burn OR I can KNOW what its going to be. This is why I have a flow scan now but its very limited in its accuracy for this use.
The other use is learning to gauge your best performance at speed and trim. You might say that its not worth the cost but I think it is. So I hover around 2.2 to 2.5 mpg ( yes standard miles because that's how I roll) I know this from taking the flow scan info, analog gauge, and my gps speed over ground and doing the math. The analog gauge is is not very accurate. If I can make accurately trim the boat with this new gauge(I hope) then my current set up what would it save me.??
2.25-2.5=.25 x 100 gallons ( my fuel tanks) is a extra 25 miles or 11 gallons at current price near my house $2.65 is $29.50 x 24 fill ups ( we get at least 2 trips a month on average ) = 699.6 dollars. that is more then twice of the cost of the unit. Could take two years to get that but it does not take a lot of difference in mpg to pay for this unit. And at $299 compared to flow scans 500 to $900 price range I like this unit a lot. it will save my dad about $2000 to equip his twin diesel.
starcrafttom":uhr9ofum said:
Thanks, Tom, for sharing this. Interesting to know about options. I recall a time on this forum when ideas were shared and there wasn't a need to "pick sides." Use the info, don't use the info, it's all OK. It is possible to not see "Aye to Aye" without being disagreeable.
Nay.
Its interesting to see something like this. It might give a bigger idea to someone else, resulting in a breakthrough nobody thought about.
Starcraft - send the guy a email, ask for evaluation unit that you can show off at FHCBGT. Ask for second unit for a door prize :smiled
Show him this thread
Starcraft - send the guy a email, ask for evaluation unit that you can show off at FHCBGT. Ask for second unit for a door prize :smiled
Show him this thread
Salmon Fisher
Member
Fuel monitoring sounds cool. Would be interested in someone doing a comparison of 25 cruisers with 150 Honda Vtec vs. 200 Yamaha.
Bring on the new refridgerator info. We bought an ARB 50 qt and really like it, but maybe something better is out there.
Bring on the new refridgerator info. We bought an ARB 50 qt and really like it, but maybe something better is out there.
The 1/3 out, 1/3 back, and 1/3 in reserve is a Coast Guard best practice rule.
Even though a modern fuel usage device could cut it closer, the weather could change so that you are slowed down and cannot get back at the same MPG as when you went out. If the wind or seaway builds up, you will use more fuel per mile than if the water is flat, at any speed.
If I was going from fuel dock to fuel dock, I would try to arrive with 1/3 in reserve. If your destination dock is closed or out of fuel, you have to go somewhere else. Or the weather could kick up along the way.
Tom, you are only buying extra fuel if you are not running at the most economical planning speed. Is that what you meant? If so, it would be nice to be able to set the throttle to the RPM for max MPG.
Even though a modern fuel usage device could cut it closer, the weather could change so that you are slowed down and cannot get back at the same MPG as when you went out. If the wind or seaway builds up, you will use more fuel per mile than if the water is flat, at any speed.
If I was going from fuel dock to fuel dock, I would try to arrive with 1/3 in reserve. If your destination dock is closed or out of fuel, you have to go somewhere else. Or the weather could kick up along the way.
Tom, you are only buying extra fuel if you are not running at the most economical planning speed. Is that what you meant? If so, it would be nice to be able to set the throttle to the RPM for max MPG.
I've used fuel flow meters on my 22, 25, and first larger trawler. It's quite revealing in terms of most economical cruise rpm. In my 22 with the first edition of the fuel injected 90 Honda, you could see the steep rise in fuel flow when it exited the lean burn mode. In other words, you either ran below 3500 rpm or ran over 4500 rpm. In between fuel economy was worse. On the 25 with the Yamaha 150, after going past hull speed, the best rpm was above 4800 for best fuel economy while on step.
I saw the Optio last year in its prototype stage and plan to buy two for my current boat (it's a diesel). One thing a fuel flow meter will show is an unusual change in fuel consumption. In addition the fuel totalizer helps when it comes to long range cruising and when refueling. They aren't required but they are useful.
Tom
I saw the Optio last year in its prototype stage and plan to buy two for my current boat (it's a diesel). One thing a fuel flow meter will show is an unusual change in fuel consumption. In addition the fuel totalizer helps when it comes to long range cruising and when refueling. They aren't required but they are useful.
Tom
journey on
New member
Well, this is an interesting thread on fuel flow meters. And best practice on fuel useage.
First, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 for gas tank usage is standard. A calibrated fuel gauge will tell you when you are at each point, if you have a fuel gauge. Or a fuel flow meter that has a totalizer. I would think any fuel flow meter made today would have one. However, I don't need a flow gauge to give an accurate reading of when I'm under 1/2, I've planned my fuel stops.
As for running at the best speed, a fuel flow meter that gives MPG can be used to give the best mileage. For a 25 (monohull) that's easy. Hull speed gives the best mileage and once you're up on plane, you can set the RPM to give you the best cruising speed whether it's 15 knts or 20 knts. That will vary with the boat and load, but it's easy to find. I find that faster requires more fuel, others may not.
So now to the point of this post, it appears that there are many good fuel flow meters. The Optio, discussed here is one that has a wireless output, requiring a smartphone or equivalent. If you don't want to tie up your smartphone, there are others, cheaper, with a NMEA 2000 output that would be displayed on your MFD. I think a quick Internet search of boat fuel flow meters would provide many options.
I have a dedicated fuel flow meter that displays total fuel used, MPG, lbs. per hr, etc. and I monitor it ad nauseam.
Boris
First, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 for gas tank usage is standard. A calibrated fuel gauge will tell you when you are at each point, if you have a fuel gauge. Or a fuel flow meter that has a totalizer. I would think any fuel flow meter made today would have one. However, I don't need a flow gauge to give an accurate reading of when I'm under 1/2, I've planned my fuel stops.
As for running at the best speed, a fuel flow meter that gives MPG can be used to give the best mileage. For a 25 (monohull) that's easy. Hull speed gives the best mileage and once you're up on plane, you can set the RPM to give you the best cruising speed whether it's 15 knts or 20 knts. That will vary with the boat and load, but it's easy to find. I find that faster requires more fuel, others may not.
So now to the point of this post, it appears that there are many good fuel flow meters. The Optio, discussed here is one that has a wireless output, requiring a smartphone or equivalent. If you don't want to tie up your smartphone, there are others, cheaper, with a NMEA 2000 output that would be displayed on your MFD. I think a quick Internet search of boat fuel flow meters would provide many options.
I have a dedicated fuel flow meter that displays total fuel used, MPG, lbs. per hr, etc. and I monitor it ad nauseam.
Boris
starcrafttom
Active member
Boris to your point. I have not been able to find a flow meter with the same options at ANY price. Also to the repeated " tye up your smart phone" I guess you don't know how to use one. You can run multiple apps at the same time and take phone calls. So that is not a concern. My business requires that I run up to 5 apps at once.
starcrafttom
Active member
oh and for the 1/3 rules. Yes great rule. I have to know when I have reached 1/3. I can not see my tanks on the 27 at all. The tank gauges are suggestions at best when the boat is under way and only good to about 5 gallons when at dock. I have flow scan ans it is NOT very accurate in my use. Most boats ( non c-dory) can not see their tanks. I think we run afoul of thinking about our selves and our boats and not about boating in general on this site.
another thought on the app wifi topic. I have three to four wireless devices on the boat at any one time. two phones, tablet, and a lap top. so for use geeks its not a problem.
another thought on the app wifi topic. I have three to four wireless devices on the boat at any one time. two phones, tablet, and a lap top. so for use geeks its not a problem.
i honestly don't understand what the 1/3 rule has to do with a fuel gauge.
One is simply a wise practice and one is a device that tells you your fuel usage at the moment, which can educate you on the most efficient ranges in which to operate your outboard.
Sure, I understand that you can look at your tank and determine that it's time to head back, but how does that help you in planning a route before you go? You can rely on published reports of what others are getting in MPG, or you could get a gauge and find out for yourself.
One is simply a wise practice and one is a device that tells you your fuel usage at the moment, which can educate you on the most efficient ranges in which to operate your outboard.
Sure, I understand that you can look at your tank and determine that it's time to head back, but how does that help you in planning a route before you go? You can rely on published reports of what others are getting in MPG, or you could get a gauge and find out for yourself.
I agree with Foggy's notion that devices and gadgets should be vetted against the risk of their over-proliferation replacing the tactile act of boating. I am not by nature a "gadget" person, preferring the KISS principle where possible. But I'm not constitutionally resistant to useful technology, particularly safety-enhancing technology. I do like fuel flow and fuel management information. I have the NMEA 2000 system installed, interfaced with my Garmin 740 chartplotter. Using it adds no additional distraction and helps me in a number of ways: trimming to optimal fuel use, monitoring fuel remaining, etc. It supplements my fairly inaccurate fuel gauge. Don't know if an additional system with APP would add much. I plan to fish for tuna off the Washington coast 20-30 miles offshore, which is pushing the rule of thirds for my boat, so trimming and running with tides (also a feature of the Garmin) will be a fairly important safety measure, TGW weather info., communication/signaling, buddy-boats, first aid proficiency, spare gas cans on board, etc. I do know that fuel issues generally account for a very high percent of on-water small boat emergencies. Be safe out there, with or without your APPS! Mike
I agree with both BillE and Westward!
The 1/3 rule is basic. However in my income bracket I have to be extra carefully with my $. A flow meter would help me optimize my speed and fuel useage and save a few pennies. If I save a few pennies everyday by the end of the year I could maybe save enough to pay off a flow meter! Worry about the pennies and the $'s add up. That's basic too.
The 1/3 rule is basic. However in my income bracket I have to be extra carefully with my $. A flow meter would help me optimize my speed and fuel useage and save a few pennies. If I save a few pennies everyday by the end of the year I could maybe save enough to pay off a flow meter! Worry about the pennies and the $'s add up. That's basic too.