cuddy hach leak

J

Jake B

New member
so spent about 4 hours pressure washing off 14 years of grime today on the boat. When I was done I went inside and seen that there was a few water spots on the cuddy cusions. wich confirmed what I thought and that was I had a leaking hatch door. I have checked it before after a rain and not seen any full penetration.

It seems to be worse on one side and the others don't seem so bad. so my question is has anyone dealt with a leak like this and what would be the best way to go about fixing it? I took one picture of the worse spot attached below. thanks for any help. I am hoping someone has done one of those step by step write ups i have seen on other fixes
c-dorystart037.jpg
 
Jake,
Do a search for "leaky hatch". I had the same problem. I found that after slicing the previous bonding material with a sharp utility knife, when I removed the hatch trim, I noticed the factory did not apply enough sealant. I removed all of the wet core material and filled with epoxy filler. This time I put a bunch of 5200 to make sure no more leaks.

Mike
 
Jake
I also had a leaking front hatch. When I removed the hatch I found the core was soaked. I dug out all the wet balsa, let it dry out really well, and filled with thickened epoxy. Sealed the hatch real well when I reinstalled.
Good luck.
Terry
ps: I would be carefull using 5200. You may never get the hatch out again.
 
Many times the cutout is not exact, and this necessitates more caulking that is desirable (the fit should be snug around the frame). Two C Dories I had to actually add a little glass, after I removed core and filled with epoxy.

I would suggest 3M 4000, It is about the same as 4200, but not affected by UV light.

Removed the hatch and all caulking--then remove any wet core, and fill with thickened epoxy, then rebed with the 4000.
 
Thanks Bob, you are right,
I actually did go to West Marine and bought and used a tube of 3M 4000 because it read on the package for sealing hatches.

Sometimes I get my sealants confused :crook

Mike
 
thanks guys and sounds like a pretty simple fix and will move it to the top end of the list to get taken care of.
also i did not know 4200 was uv effected and thats good to know. i will get some 4000.
is there any epoxy that is better than the next? never really worked with it before.

again thanks for the replys on how to fix.
 
I've used a few different brands of "real" marine epoxy and found them all to be satisfactory (System 3, WEST System, etc.). For home mixing, I find I like the ones with a 1:2 ratio as I can use my own cups vs. using (and store) pumps, which one typically uses with 1:5 ratio product, such as WEST System. The latter is a fine epoxy, though, and they have great tech support.

Speaking of which, if you haven't worked with epoxy much (or for a refresher), I recommend checking out WEST and/or Sytem 3's free booklets (available online, but I can't get to the links just now - should be easily found). The advice will apply to most brands.

There are now some special epoxies that come in convenient 1:1 bottles too (G/flex, etc.) Those or the WEST "catsup packet" repair kits are handy to carry along, with a bit of thickener, for projects that may crop up.

I wouldn't use "hardware store"/5-minute type epoxy for your boat/core projects.
 
sunbeam, thanks for the info i will look up the booklets online and read up before I try and tackle it. seeing that the rain season is about over here I will probably wait until august to do as we will have better weather windows at that time.

again thanks everyone for the how to its much appreciated.
 
so after fixing this almost a year ago i noticed it is starting to leak again. due to replacing all the balsa with epoxy My main guess is that the bed of 4200 failed. so I will remove and re bed. Is there anything better than 4200 to use? kind of surprised it failed so soon
 
It is likely not the sealant/adhesive, especially 4200.

I have had "professionals" do sealing work that was horrendous and leaking just days later due to improper cleaning prior to adhesion/assembly. I have since not allowed "professionals" to work on my boat.

Cleanliness is EVERYTHING when you are dealing with this kind of work. EVERY seal will fail with even a small amount of dirt/grit or grease/oil/silicone present at the assembly junction.

Second to cleanliness is making sure that there is sufficient sealant remaining at the joint when it is assembled. Many times folks clamp down on a freshly-bedded assembly so hard that all of the sealant is squeezed out at the joint, leaving only the mating surfaces to provide a watertight seal.

A good general procedure is to do the following:

1) Bevel all through-holes that screws/bolts use with a V-shaped countersink (various web links for this available)
2) Clean all surfaces, clean them a second time, and then clean them once more
3) Apply sealant and snug down, but not too tight
4) After sealant dries, tighten the final amount

JM (non-professional) HO....
 
First I would want to know exactly where the leak was occurring? Is it around the flange of the hatch, or is it actually the hatch plastic as it is embeded in the frame? None of the hatches I have fixed have had recurrence of leakage. (3 C Dories)

In the hatches I repaired, I had to add glass in most of them, because the cutout was too larger. Made it snug, (of course filled the balsa round the cutout with epoxy. Made sure that the screws only went into epoxy--not into the balsa.

I have not found it necessary to tighten further on the urethane sealants. If you have some reason to use silicone sealants, then a further slight tightening might be of value. Remember when you turn the screws, you will break the seal on the screws, and perhaps increase the chance of a leak there.
 
I agree with Ray's advice on cleanliness and preparation, and also chamfering fastener holes. I don't follow the tighten/let cure/re-tighten philosophy; rather I like to bed generously, tighten fully, and clean up (if possible only moving the inside fasteners and not the outside heads). I don't disturb the caulk after that. This would be with a "gushy" compound such as polyurethane, polysulfide, etc.

On something like the hatch I would probably use a good (i.e. very stretchy) butyl tape, but I would also expect success with polyurethane, polysulfide or polyether.

Were you really generous with the caulking? I mean, did lots smoosh out everywhere? Or were you more parsimonious and "tidy" with it? Just a small gap or hole will cause a leak. Without being able to see it, or knowing exactly what you did, that would be my first guess (but for all I know you used a whole tube).

Sunbeam
 
I used a liberal amount of seal when I did it. i did tighten all the way the first time and although I never had a problem with doing it that way it makes sense that there would be little left. it looks to be leaking from the starboard side right near the corner closest to the bow. all i saw was where water had leaked onto cuddy and seen a faint line from there to a rain drop on the ceiling. I don't believe its the hatch itself leaking but more the seal( i will confirm this tomorrow when cleaning boat). I also do know that it is a new leak when i first fixed it i soaked the hatch for a good while to see if i could get it to leak.
the only thing that may have done it too. is my mother in law and wife were hanging out up there when we were out shrimping on sat?
 
If it's the glass in the frame leaking, I think I posted links to new glass/seal parts (if you have the same hatch) in an earlier thread. Maybe if you searched on "Pompanette," as I think I mentioned them in my post (I have limited Internet at the moment so can't search it).

So maybe your bedding job was already just fine. I've never had an issue with "oversqueezout" when tightening down in one step, myself. I mean, there has always been enough caulking left to do the job.

Vexing when you did it all "right," isn't it? *cry
Sunbeam
 
I am very reluctant to use butyl tape, unless thru bolted, especially on hatches which are on the deck.

I do avoid stepping or sitting on the hatch, but they do seem to be up to it. I have been using this type of hatch since 1971, and yet to have one fail.

I do have to emphaisze that you want the cut out to be snug around the hatch bevel. If it is not, then fill the areas where it is not with glass tape and epoxy, epoxy with filler.

The aluminum has to be very clean--especially if someone by mistake used silicone on it at one time. (there are some structural silicones, but these are not what you find at West Marine or Home Depot). The urethane adhesives remain the best to use, but adhesion to aluminum is less in shear than it is to fiberglass. (See the brochures by 3 M for details). before you fit the hatch with sealant, put masking tape around the edges to make clean up of extra sealant easier. When you put the sealant in, use plenty, and especially at the "L" of the frame from the horizontal to the vertical bevel. You want this entire area full of sealant. It will squeeze out--so you need to have plastic taped under the hatch.
 
thataway":3c3r7yx2 said:
I do have to emphaisze that you want the cut out to be snug around the hatch bevel. If it is not, then fill the areas where it is not with glass tape and epoxy, epoxy with filler.
Click to expand...

Re-reading this thread this morning, I see this and it's definitely a good point. I have not removed/replaced the forehatch, but when I took out my old lazarette hatches to put in new ones, some of the cut-out was really sloppy/wide as compared to the hatch flange. That left very little contact between the flange and the boat in those areas. Contrary to what one sometimes sees (caulk globbed up around the outside of a hatch/port/etc.), the caulk that is doing the job is that which is between the flange and the deck - so if you don't have much flange/deck interface, you don't have much sealant doing the job.

If I had just reinstalled my original lazarette hatches, I probably still would have added glass in a few places where they were "generous" with the cut-out (as it turned out the new hatches were slightly smaller, and so I added glass, but I just mean that even the original ones were a "barely" fit in some areas due to over-large cutouts).

Do you remember if you had any areas like this?

Sunbeam

PS: Since I have not removed my forehatch, I wasn't thinking about how it is fastened to the deck (and don't actually know even now). If it's just "sitting there," then I would not use butyl either. Butyl is a great, sticky, bedding compound that lasts seemingly forever while staying stretchy/sticky and thus does a great job keeping water out; but it is not a super-duper adhesive, so I wouldn't use it on anything where the sealant was doing the "fastening" to the boat.
 
The aluminum frame is screwed into the outer layer of the gel coat, and into the balsa--it is not into the inner layer of glass. This is a fairly thin layer of glass--I have not measured it, but maybe 1/8"... There should be no sealant visable around the outside of the hatch frame (masking tape allows good clean up). The most of the seal is back by the "L". of the frame. There the sealant is thicker.
 
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