After being called away to the hurricanes last year my c-dory sat in its slip unused for 5 1/2 months. With fear of freezing water my first priority was to my boat second was to see the wife (don't tell her that). So I drove 21 hours straight to the island straight to the marina. There she was still floating, still tied just as I left her in the spring. I had gotten only one short day trip all year and now time to pull the boat for the winter. No way! So I planed a 4 day trip out in the back yard ( Apostle Islands ) I would have 2 days to winterize the cabin and outfit the boat for the trip. The plan was for Kara my wife to drive up friday after work and I would pick her up on the mainland around 9pm. Come hell or high water I was going to spend some time on board before the ice. Well hell and high water was just what I got. 4-6 foot waves, 28 temp, Rain snow mix and fog. But I could not let go of this last chance to spend time on the boat. Crossing north channel was slow going but not a big deal Kara was late due to the Rain/snow. 10:30pm we pulled out to find a calm spot for the night. Some how by the grace of god and alot of help from radar/CP we pulled into a calm dock on an outer island. It was cold and we had no heat so I closed up the boat and we went to bed. As I said I had not seen my boat or my wife in 5 1/2 months so we said our formal hello and drifted off to sleep. 5am I woke abruptly thinking some one was running on the dock, jumped up and no one was there just icicles on the bow rale. But now I was awake so I thought I would make so eggs so I grabbed the lighter and tried to light the stove but the lighter would not light. No big deal we keep a small propane torch on board for lighting camp fires. It won't light either....... I don't know why but with a bic lighter in one hand I cracked the door extended out my arm and the lighter lit as I pulled it into the cabin it went out. #*&^%! Get up a yelled to kara! We sat on the dock for a hour in shock. Then the headache lasting for two days and my last trip of the year cut short. I new my c-dory was well built but I didn't think she was air tight. I hope that from sharing this story I might save some one a headache or worse!
Death by Dory?
- Thread starter Tony
- Start date
Captains Cat
New member
Wow! Glad you and Kara are OK Tony. Hard to believe it's airtight for me too but I guess with a lot of heavy breathing, you could use up a lot of oxygen. 
If you ever figure out what happened (with the air), let us all know...
Again, glad you're OK!!
Charlie
If you ever figure out what happened (with the air), let us all know...
Again, glad you're OK!!
Charlie
Cutty Sark
New member
I wonder if the rain, snow, and freezing temps could have been a factor? Maybe the boat was iced up on the outside a bit, and that contributed to sealing it airtight. Has anyone else had that type of experience? Do most people crack a window on overnight trips? And on a side note how many leave the wallas on all night? Glad you woke up, could have been really bad.
Sark
Sark
Tony-
Glad you're OK!!!
Sark-
I think your explanation of the ice sealing up the seams that ordinarily provide air exchange is 100% correct.
Behoves al of us to remember to crack a window a bit, expecially in freezing weather!
A note to this effect should be in the Owner's Manual if it isn't already.
Joe.
Glad you're OK!!!
Sark-
I think your explanation of the ice sealing up the seams that ordinarily provide air exchange is 100% correct.
Behoves al of us to remember to crack a window a bit, expecially in freezing weather!
A note to this effect should be in the Owner's Manual if it isn't already.
Joe.
You didn't happen to have a cooler with dry ice inside the cabin did you? That would also displace the air from the bottom up. If not, it's truly scary that the boat was sealed up so tight. Probably something to think about if you ever have a desire to sleep in a car on a cold day too...
Captains Cat
New member
Roger good thinking but why in the world would someone in below freezing weather have dry ice on board... :shock:
Think about it. Could happen though, I guess... :crook
Charile
Think about it. Could happen though, I guess... :crook
Charile
Hi all,
Scarry story!!
We sleep with the front hatch open on the first 'click'( where the latches lock into the first groove).
We also leave the side windows open 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so, unless there is heavy rain.
I haven't slept on the boat without heat in those freezing conditions, though.
Scarry story!!
We sleep with the front hatch open on the first 'click'( where the latches lock into the first groove).
We also leave the side windows open 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so, unless there is heavy rain.
I haven't slept on the boat without heat in those freezing conditions, though.
starcrafttom
Active member
I would say the ice and freezing rain was the killer on that night. we always leave the front hatch open a little. I hate sleeping with out a lillte fresh air, even old air. glad you made it.
Glad you are Okay!
This is a very scary story. We have slept in our boat many nights in the rain in upper 40s lower 50s and had everything closed. The only opening being the hole were the wires come into the cabin from the cockpit.
I am wondering if a CO alarm would be any good in this situation?
Steve
This is a very scary story. We have slept in our boat many nights in the rain in upper 40s lower 50s and had everything closed. The only opening being the hole were the wires come into the cabin from the cockpit.
I am wondering if a CO alarm would be any good in this situation?
Steve
seabran":vyc3yzdr said:
Probably not since what woud be building up inside the boat would be CO2 and not CO. CO2 at high enough concentrations can be an asphyxiant even when O2 levels are not that low. Here's a link on an Australian govt site that warns mariners of the dangers of CO2 asphyxiation. I'm poking around looking for CO2 alarms right now.
AstoriaDave
New member
Two aspects of this story puzzle me:
1. When the CO2 level in the air you breathe rises, it induces a fierce "I gotta breathe" reaction in a person. They apparently did not experience that. It is the rise in CO2 within your blood that makes you feel like you need to breathe when you swim a long ways underwater. You actually have quite a bit of O2 within your tissues, to sustain the cells -- one reason it is possible to survive near drowning without any brain damage if ventilation is begun promptly after the near-drowner is pulled from the water.
2. The total volume of the space they were in has a lot of O2 in it, such that it would take a very long time for them to deplete it to dangerous levels. Unless they were drugged or drunk, they should wake up from apnea or something similar long before the O2 level would get so low that a butane lighter would not operate. I've slept overnight at 11,000 feet many times, and I notice some apnea (funny breathing), but have never had any trouble getting a lighter to work.
I don't have an explanation for their story at all, but I am puzzled why their story does not jive with what I know about O2-depleted breathing situations. Maybe somebody with better knowledge can fill us in.
1. When the CO2 level in the air you breathe rises, it induces a fierce "I gotta breathe" reaction in a person. They apparently did not experience that. It is the rise in CO2 within your blood that makes you feel like you need to breathe when you swim a long ways underwater. You actually have quite a bit of O2 within your tissues, to sustain the cells -- one reason it is possible to survive near drowning without any brain damage if ventilation is begun promptly after the near-drowner is pulled from the water.
2. The total volume of the space they were in has a lot of O2 in it, such that it would take a very long time for them to deplete it to dangerous levels. Unless they were drugged or drunk, they should wake up from apnea or something similar long before the O2 level would get so low that a butane lighter would not operate. I've slept overnight at 11,000 feet many times, and I notice some apnea (funny breathing), but have never had any trouble getting a lighter to work.
I don't have an explanation for their story at all, but I am puzzled why their story does not jive with what I know about O2-depleted breathing situations. Maybe somebody with better knowledge can fill us in.
Interesting reading, serious possibly. Within the first 2 months of bringing home my CD-25 over 3 yrs ago I cut a 2 1/2 - 3" hole in my roof and installed a fixed vent the type I used to have on my sailboats that sheds water but ventilates ...and I hate holes in roofs and hulls. I felt the cabin was too airtight, might make a mistake with the stove or something. Half-jokingly I've looked at that vent and wondered what possessed me to do it, now I guess I have a reason...
Steve
Steve
Chris Bulovsky
New member
That could have been very ugly. Its a good story....and not just the "formal hello" bit. :lol:
Hope to see ya on the water this summer.
Stay safe
Christopher Bulovsky
Washburn Wi
Hope to see ya on the water this summer.
Stay safe
Christopher Bulovsky
Washburn Wi
Thanks for all the "glad you are oks" folks! I do not know if it was to little O2 or too much CO2 or CO....... I know two things to be fact. #1 butane and propane lighters would not light. #2 I had a vary bad headache for two full days and Kara's hung on for almost 4 days.
I now have two solar 24 hr 3" vents one in the front hatch and one in the roof of the cabin.
We are hoping to not have any repeat overnights this summer.
I now have two solar 24 hr 3" vents one in the front hatch and one in the roof of the cabin.
We are hoping to not have any repeat overnights this summer.
AstoriaDave
New member
Really glad you two survived. The headache suggests CO poisoning ... if you had not woken up when you did, you'd both be toast!Tony":33u3birx said:
El and Bill
New member
Some thoughts from Emergency Med magazine:
Patients exposed to high levels of CO2 in the environment ... may experience immediate hypoxia or anoxia in response to the displacement of ambient oxygen. At any given temperature and pressure, a liter of air can contain only a certain number of particles. In this case, the ... CO2 gas displaced the other components of ambient air, the most important of which was oxygen.
The displacement of breathable oxygen by another gas produces asphyxiation, impaired pulmonary gas exchange culminating in hypoxemia. Asphyxiation may be caused by a physical mechanism, such as choking, or by the reduction of the oxygen content in breathable air. A person who has suffocated in a plastic bag, for example, has actually asphyxiated from the selective depletion of oxygen caused by rebreathing into the bag. Fire may deplete ambient oxygen and produce asphyxiation independently of the effects of smoke inhalation or carbon monoxide poisoning.
Unfortunately, this mechanism is assuming increased clinical importance with the resurgence of volatile hydrocarbon abuse. Users inhale concentrated hydrocarbon vapors from butane lighters, for example, or breathe in the propellant from spray paint cans, and the reduced partial pressure of the inhaled oxygen leads to hypoxemia.
The "toxicity" of simple asphyxiants does not involve any deleterious effect from the gases themselves; rather, the clinical findings are largely proportional to the reduction in the fraction of inspired oxygen (FIO2). In experimental models of acute CO2 poisoning, however, central nervous system and respiratory status deteriorated within seconds when FIO2 was maintained at normal levels, which suggests that CO2 is not just a simple asphyxiant but also has acute systemic effects. In 1986, Lake Nyos, a carbonated lake in Cameroon, released a massive cloud of CO2 gas into the local community, killing thousands of people.
Occupational exposure to CO2 is widespread. The gas is used in carbonation of soft drinks and as a shielding gas for welding. Carbon dioxide is produced when organic material decomposes or ferments, and asphyxiation from CO2 exposure has occurred in workers entering grain elevators, the holds of cargo ships, and brewery vats. In the past, miners would lower candles or mice into caves before entering, to guard against the "black damp"--oxidation of carbonaceous material to CO2, a process that both requires and depletes environmental oxygen.
Compressed CO2 gas is widely used as a fire extinguisher because of its ability to safely displace oxygen from the atmosphere surrounding a fire. When the gas is used in a closed space such as an airplane, however, that property may prove lethal. Dry ice is often used to generate artificial smoke for stage productions and is widely used in the biomedical and transportation industries. Storage of dry ice in closed spaces, such as submarines and automobiles.
I'm still researching to see if 'sealing' a C-Dory from rain overnight could be a serious hazard to occupants -- we have done this, and I'm sure others have as well. Seems like a function of interior volume relative to volume of exhaled C02 from sleepers.
As Astoria Dave says, seems there might be another source of asphyxiants -- leaking fire extinguisher, mold, fermentation ... Could there possibly have been anything else, Tony? Your close call is a siren call to all of us who routinely have shut out bad weather while overnighting on our boats...
For sure, we'll be leaving the cabin door open from now on ... but, we have purposely not done this due to hydrocarbon vapors from the gas tanks (in our cockpit covered by canvas). Anyone have more thoughts on this safety topic?
Patients exposed to high levels of CO2 in the environment ... may experience immediate hypoxia or anoxia in response to the displacement of ambient oxygen. At any given temperature and pressure, a liter of air can contain only a certain number of particles. In this case, the ... CO2 gas displaced the other components of ambient air, the most important of which was oxygen.
The displacement of breathable oxygen by another gas produces asphyxiation, impaired pulmonary gas exchange culminating in hypoxemia. Asphyxiation may be caused by a physical mechanism, such as choking, or by the reduction of the oxygen content in breathable air. A person who has suffocated in a plastic bag, for example, has actually asphyxiated from the selective depletion of oxygen caused by rebreathing into the bag. Fire may deplete ambient oxygen and produce asphyxiation independently of the effects of smoke inhalation or carbon monoxide poisoning.
Unfortunately, this mechanism is assuming increased clinical importance with the resurgence of volatile hydrocarbon abuse. Users inhale concentrated hydrocarbon vapors from butane lighters, for example, or breathe in the propellant from spray paint cans, and the reduced partial pressure of the inhaled oxygen leads to hypoxemia.
The "toxicity" of simple asphyxiants does not involve any deleterious effect from the gases themselves; rather, the clinical findings are largely proportional to the reduction in the fraction of inspired oxygen (FIO2). In experimental models of acute CO2 poisoning, however, central nervous system and respiratory status deteriorated within seconds when FIO2 was maintained at normal levels, which suggests that CO2 is not just a simple asphyxiant but also has acute systemic effects. In 1986, Lake Nyos, a carbonated lake in Cameroon, released a massive cloud of CO2 gas into the local community, killing thousands of people.
Occupational exposure to CO2 is widespread. The gas is used in carbonation of soft drinks and as a shielding gas for welding. Carbon dioxide is produced when organic material decomposes or ferments, and asphyxiation from CO2 exposure has occurred in workers entering grain elevators, the holds of cargo ships, and brewery vats. In the past, miners would lower candles or mice into caves before entering, to guard against the "black damp"--oxidation of carbonaceous material to CO2, a process that both requires and depletes environmental oxygen.
Compressed CO2 gas is widely used as a fire extinguisher because of its ability to safely displace oxygen from the atmosphere surrounding a fire. When the gas is used in a closed space such as an airplane, however, that property may prove lethal. Dry ice is often used to generate artificial smoke for stage productions and is widely used in the biomedical and transportation industries. Storage of dry ice in closed spaces, such as submarines and automobiles.
I'm still researching to see if 'sealing' a C-Dory from rain overnight could be a serious hazard to occupants -- we have done this, and I'm sure others have as well. Seems like a function of interior volume relative to volume of exhaled C02 from sleepers.
As Astoria Dave says, seems there might be another source of asphyxiants -- leaking fire extinguisher, mold, fermentation ... Could there possibly have been anything else, Tony? Your close call is a siren call to all of us who routinely have shut out bad weather while overnighting on our boats...
For sure, we'll be leaving the cabin door open from now on ... but, we have purposely not done this due to hydrocarbon vapors from the gas tanks (in our cockpit covered by canvas). Anyone have more thoughts on this safety topic?
I honestly can't think of any thing other than too much heavy breathing....
It had been a long time so honestly there was not that much heavy breathing. Not quite a marathon more like a sprint.. ... No dry ice, fire extinguisher is still showing green now. I had some mildew on a few stored life jackets but no mold growth when I striped the boat for storage. We hope that the powered vents will be the fix.
In hind sight it would not have been that bad of a way to go. Sleeping on an outer Island with the love of my life. Hell my Wife was there too.
It had been a long time so honestly there was not that much heavy breathing. Not quite a marathon more like a sprint..
... No dry ice, fire extinguisher is still showing green now. I had some mildew on a few stored life jackets but no mold growth when I striped the boat for storage. We hope that the powered vents will be the fix. In hind sight it would not have been that bad of a way to go. Sleeping on an outer Island with the love of my life. Hell my Wife was there too.
Tony, let me add my happiness with the fact that you didn't croak on your boat. You have some real talent in the humor department, and I like laughing. What took you so long to get here??
And thanks for sharing the serious stuff, too. It really made me stop and think about it. Now that we have a couple of kids with us on board, I pay a lot closer attention to messages like yours.
Don't be so scarce from now on, OK?