Did I Screw Up? And How Do I Fix It?

P

Pat Anderson

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Nov 2, 2003
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C Dory Year
2005
C Dory Model
25 Cruiser
Vessel Name
Daydream
I noticed the steering fluid was quite a way down in the reservoir on the steering column, so I put some fluid in (well, I filled it right to the top), put the cap back on, and proceeded to do (what I thought I needed to do) to bleed the air out, namely, turn the steering wheel back and forth. And now it is all the way over to one side and I cannot turn it back. Help please!
 
Maybe you went past the over pressure stop. IF you turn it just as hard back the other way will it pull free? Or is there something that fell next to the motor that is blocking it from going back? (Like an extension ladder used to get on the boat?)
 
Pat,

Sounds like you have a leak somewhere. Look at the outboard steering cylinder; run your finger under it. Any leaks? Also, check your hose fittings on the back of the steering helm for leaks. Do you have Autopilot? You may have a leak in this system that relates to your steering problem.
 
As you found out, you should not fill to the top. There should be about 3/8" of air space below the opening--you want the fluid just over the valves you can see thru the top plug. Get one of the oil absorb pads and open the top plug. Then see if the wheel will turn. It will "burp out" fluid--thus the pad. If it will still not turn, You will probably have to relieve the pressure at the cylinder.

To bleed the system you have to open the valves at the cylinder in front of the motor. You can slip clear vinyl hose over the little nubbins which are covered with a black plastic cover--I think it was either 1/4" or 5/16" tubing, and I put a small hose clamp around the tube--put the tube into a clean jar to catch the fluid. There may be pressure built up in the system now. So open the these purging valves carefully with tubing on them.

Usually if the fluid is just down a little, then you rock the helm back and forth a turn each way a few times as you fill the helm pump. This will give you an idea of how much fluid to add. You want the pad around the plug. I use a small funnel I keep aboard the boat and a non punctured container of hydraulic fluid. For bleeding I took an container which had oil in it but with the same thread as the hydraulic oil container and cut the bottom off. That way I used it as an open reservoir to fully purge the system after I rebuilt the seals on the motor cylinder.

You may have a slow leak at the seals of the hydraulic cylinder. On outlast trip when I was checking the steering just before launching, there was a visible leak from the cylinder I had to add fluid several times during our trip. I now have rubber blocks to keep the engine centered when trailering. Pushing back against the seals when trailering is a way to damage the cylinder seals. However they will wear with time. Check the cylinder ram arms for any scoring--they say that Powell sand, and dog hairs are both materials which affect the seals (Baxter...!.). :D
 
I often use my vacuum pump to bleed things. If you have one, that is what they are for and they are great. It sounds to me like you need to bleed the helm part of the hydraulic circuit to me, but I'm no expert. You may have air everywhere at this point.
 
Pat Anderson":1qqpshf3 said:
I noticed the steering fluid was quite a way down in the reservoir on the steering column, so I put some fluid in (well, I filled it right to the top), put the cap back on, and proceeded to do (what I thought I needed to do) to bleed the air out, namely, turn the steering wheel back and forth. And now it is all the way over to one side and I cannot turn it back. Help please!
Click to expand...

Probably overfilled it, crack the fill plug slowly with something to catch the extra & try to turn the wheel. Like what DR Bob said.
Or less messy in the cabin crack each bleeder at the cylinder, see if you get a squirt of oil at either, put a piece of clear tubing between them & turn the wheel lock to lock with the filler loose? be sure you close the bleeders before you remove the tubing :wink:
 
I use a small kitchen aid -- a mustard or ketchup dispenser with a fairly sharp pointed tip, to add the oil at the fill hole on the helm.

Careful turning the wheel while that hole is open, it can spout out of there generously.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.thumb.jpg
 
Watch this video on filling and bleeding your hydraulic steering. I installed a brand new Baystar system in our boat and used this system and it was awesome. I was able to fill and bleed it by myself with no problem and did not spill or waste a drop of fluid. My new system came with 2 quarts of that expensive fluid, and I was able to fill the entire system with only one quart since there is no waste. I never cracked the lid on the second quart.
The instructions on my system said to fill it to the top. there should be no air in it when you are done. I keep this bleed kit in my boat now, as it takes up little room. If I or someone I know is haveing a problem I can bleed it myself very easily.
If your steering is locked up now it should free up if you crack the bleed valves on your steering ram.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_EqQmSrHeQ
 
That's really slick. When I do mine I use a vacuum pump and it seriously takes 5 minutes to flush and bleed everything out. It probably wastes some fluid, but I want it flushed out good. Unfortunately, it takes 2 people and some beer.....I don't know why, but the seals on mine don't last any longer then 3-5 years and then they are leaking again. I use the boat a lot, but dang, square cut seals should last longer since they do in other applications - like anything with a hydraulic cylinder.....
 
A related question: Does the hydraulic fluid expands and contracts with ambient temperatures? I have a clear tube connecting the steering pump to the filling cap on top of dashboard, it does not come straight down but makes a curve sideways so I can see the fluid. I refilled to the top this fall before Lake Powell and it stayed full, it seems, until temperatures dropped this winter, it is now about 3 inches down in the tube, no leaks anywhere that I can see. just curious
 
Thanks all! I was prepared to use a straw (finger over the top, not sucking!) to remove some of the fluid, but I muscled the steering wheel some more last night, and it finally moved back to the center and freely moves in both directions now. I will check it again today, and I will certainly watch and bookmark the video.
 
alainP":25ghviyj said:
A related question: Does the hydraulic fluid expands and contracts with ambient temperatures? I have a clear tube connecting the steering pump to the filling cap on top of dashboard, it does not come straight down but makes a curve sideways so I can see the fluid. I refilled to the top this fall before Lake Powell and it stayed full, it seems, until temperatures dropped this winter, it is now about 3 inches down in the tube, no leaks anywhere that I can see. just curious
Click to expand...

Hydraulic fluid is specifically formulated for minimum expansion and contraction. If you are seeing the level drop like that during temperature changes there is most likely air in you system. the air will expand and contract due to temperature and also contribute to slop in your steering system. A good bleeding should correct this.
 
T.R. Bauer":11y1osoq said:
That's really slick. When I do mine I use a vacuum pump and it seriously takes 5 minutes to flush and bleed everything out. It probably wastes some fluid, but I want it flushed out good. Unfortunately, it takes 2 people and some beer.....I don't know why, but the seals on mine don't last any longer then 3-5 years and then they are leaking again. I use the boat a lot, but dang, square cut seals should last longer since they do in other applications - like anything with a hydraulic cylinder.....
Click to expand...

In an older steering ram as the internal parts wear it will put more strain on the seals, causing them to wear out sooner.
Our boat had an older steering ram that is now obsolete. there are still seals available, but they are close to 2/3 the cost of a complete new ram. None of the internal parts are available. If I took it apart and it needed anything besides seals I would be out of luck. They did not recommend using the older tubing with the newer style fittings that are on the new ram and I needed longer tubing because the new ram has a different configuration. when you weigh out the cost of buying the individual components and fluid it is actually quite a bit less to go with the new kit that comes with everything. my steering was slipping quite a bit. While that could have been worn internal parts in the ram, it could also have been the helm pump itself slipping. I decided it was worth it to me to go all new and be done with it so I would not loose time on the water. I feel good about it knowing I should not have to worry about it anymore.
On a side note, if you are leaking fluid out of any part of your steering system, you are probably pulling in some air too. I can tell you that with the new system our auto pilot works much better at slower trolling speeds. Most likely because we were pulling in some air as the fluid was leaking out the steering ram seals.
 
Pat, I can’t help you with the frozen steering though the suggestions offered should. The times my old ram system froze up it was due to the design allowing salt water into the movable shaft housing. Replacing to a new different ram solved that. With the Baystar helm pump, I have had the seal fail from over filling the reservoir & have leanrned like others mentioned not to fill to the top. The Seastar may be different as I’ve seen YouTube videos with them topping the Seastar right to the top.

Jay
 
One thing to be aware of is that you can score or damage the ram arms. These need to be checked very carefully when you replace the seals. If there is any damage or scoring of the arms, it will pay to just replace the whole ram as above.
 
I'll just keep changing the seals. It's really not that hard now that I have all the tools to do it. Mine is more like a very slow weep at this point and they are on year 4 or 5 - that's around 500 hours. If it gets worse, I'll be doing it. And, it's going to get worse.....lol....I just hope I'm smart enough to choose to do it on a rainy day and not be forced to do it on the nicest day of the year, which is probably when it will fail knowing my own dumb luck. How much does that 1 man bleed kit cost? I didn't come across it.
 
In the 14 years of my C-dory, I had one seal kit installed. Last summer I had a new ram installed and helm seals replaced.
 
T.R. Bauer":14hlu4zv said:
I'll just keep changing the seals. It's really not that hard now that I have all the tools to do it. Mine is more like a very slow weep at this point and they are on year 4 or 5 - that's around 500 hours. If it gets worse, I'll be doing it. And, it's going to get worse.....lol....I just hope I'm smart enough to choose to do it on a rainy day and not be forced to do it on the nicest day of the year, which is probably when it will fail knowing my own dumb luck. How much does that 1 man bleed kit cost? I didn't come across it.
Click to expand...

This is all you need to do it
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MV ... RWS4&psc=1

This can be used to make hooking up the fluid to the helm a little cleaner and more convenient, but you can get the job done with out it
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SF ... RWS4&psc=1

The same items can be purchased from the marine tech site. They make some other nice tools.
 
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