Did I Screw Up? And How Do I Fix It?

Some of you guys got me thinking about the fill level on the helm and what type of cap should be used on a baystar helm, so I called the teleflex tech support and asked them about it. They said on the baystar helm with balanced ram you can use either a vented or nonvented cap. It makes no difference as to how the system will work and both caps come with the kit. They don't recommend using the vented cap on boats with the helm exposed to the weather and washing as they see contamination to the fluid in these situations. Not an issue with a C-Dory so you can use either or it makes no difference. Ours has the vented cap on it.
The fill level is recommended to be from the bottom of the threads of the fill hole to 1/4" below the fill hole. However he said that it will not hurt anything to have it filled to the top. The only problem it can cause is that on a hot day it can puch out a little fluid if you have the vented cap or when you open it up. It will cause no harm to the system or the seals. If the level gets too low it can introduce air in to the lines and steering ram. I have had ours filled to the top and have had no problems with fluid seeping out the vented cap during the year it has been installed and 140 hours of use. It does not get that terribly hot where we live.
Their tech line can be reached at
six zero four-two four eight-three eight five eight
 
From the techs mouth, but not always right in the application world. I have used the Baystar helm for 15 years & replaced it once 5 years ago.. Started with the venting cap & it would always vent fluid out & make a mess if filled to the top. Switched to the non venting cap about 5 years ago, filled to the top with more messes & blown helm seal. Now using the non vent cap & fill just below the top, then with the cap off, I turn the steering wheel slowly lock to lock, twice with a rag handy to catch the overflow that comes out. That process brings the level down about to about 3/8 to a 1/2 inch from the top with all good there after, until a leak or system change starts the process over.
To each there own, this works for me.

My blown seal with a non vented cap may have just been a coincidence with me not wanting to take a chance of repeating the seal change, but the overflowing if filled to the top with a vented cap is not.

Jay
 
My experience is the same as Jay's. There is a pressure rises and fluid rise in the pump chamber as you turn the helm. If the pump is full, it will burp out.

I also agree that it is more likely to blow the helm seals if too much pressure. I have rebuilt 2 helms, but this ram is the first one I have had to rebuild. Experience is about 17 years of use of these helms. There are other hydraulic helms which require a pressurized system with a reservoir . They are entirely different animals. I have also owned those type of systems. Our systems use relatively low pressure in comparison to some of the much larger boats.
 
There is no substitute for experience, and I come here to learn. My first line of attack is always to do things by the book, and that usually works. Although I have not had any problems with any fluid seeping out of the vented cap, I think I will keep the level a little lower as even the Tech said that is acceptable and has worked from experience. I will also check it often to make sure it stays at that level.
I also have to wonder about what differences there are in the helms they are making now and the ones they were making 10 or 15 years ago. They do have different numbers on them. The one that came on our 2004 boat was not leaking when I replaced it and it had relatively low hours on it. By installing the entire kit at least I know that everything is new and that it all is compatible.

Thanks guys
 
drbridge":2qktkxgh said:
Watch this video on filling and bleeding your hydraulic steering. I installed a brand new Baystar system in our boat and used this system and it was awesome. I was able to fill and bleed it by myself with no problem and did not spill or waste a drop of fluid. My new system came with 2 quarts of that expensive fluid, and I was able to fill the entire system with only one quart since there is no waste. I never cracked the lid on the second quart.
The instructions on my system said to fill it to the top. there should be no air in it when you are done. I keep this bleed kit in my boat now, as it takes up little room. If I or someone I know is haveing a problem I can bleed it myself very easily.
If your steering is locked up now it should free up if you crack the bleed valves on your steering ram.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_EqQmSrHeQ
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Doug I watched the video & was impressed, so have ordered it, but now Benton’s comment about possibly not working with an auto pilot in the system has me concerned. It worked for you, so do you have an auto pilot.
 
I just got off the phone with the guy, that did the video & sells the Bubble Purge system. The old one they sold, the Bubble G2 will not work well with an auto pilot, but either the Bubble Purge Pro SC for single cylinder rams & the Bubble Purge Pro DC for double rams will work with an auto pilot. He also explained to me how to quickly purge the system by adding new fluid at the same time, while using the Bubble Pro systems. A great guy to talk to with clear explanations.

Jay
 
We have auto pilot and had no problem using the marine tech version that I posted earlier from amazon. I'm sure the guy knows what he is talking about concerning his product. You would want to make sure that the tubing was securely fastened to the fittings because the pump will send a lot of fluid fast and maybe that is the difference.
The whole concept of this system is a good way to go in my opinion. It allows you to get the job done with no help and sometimes good help is hard to find. Let us know what the process is for the purge and how it works for you.
 
Guys thanks for the information. I will be ordering the Pro. Also saw the short tube is used with filling the motor lift. That makes it a twofer.
Benton :smiled
 
I just got off the phone with the guy, that did the video & sells the Bubble Purge system. The old one they sold, the Bubble G2 will not work well with an auto pilot, but either the Bubble Purge Pro SC for single cylinder rams & the Bubble Purge Pro DC for double rams will work with an auto pilot. He also explained to me how to quickly purge the system by adding new fluid at the same time, while using the Bubble Pro systems. A great guy to talk to with clear explanations.
Click to expand...

Jay, after reading these posts, I decided to order the Pro SC. I've had to re-bleed my system enough times in the past, I could have used it earlier. Hope it works just as good as SeaStar's $900 system. I think I've actually been able to purge all the air out the old fashioned manual way, but gone thru a lot of fluid in the process. At least I'm use the Aeroshell at $32/gal with shipping & tax, so it's not quite as expensive as if I were using the SeaStar stuff. I'm hoping there will be enough line at 20' that I won't need to also order the extra length. I think what I'll really like about this system, is it looks like it's a lot cleaner...not so much opportunity for spills, especially at the helm with the pin hole in the bottle.
Also, good luck with your Raymarine EV150. I had the 100, and was not at all impressed with it. I ended up going with Garmin's expensive Reactor and smart pump. Much better. Colby
 
To bleed the Baystar/Seastar system manually, without the loss of fluid, feed the drain lines at the motor ram into a clean container. That will capture the fluid one has pumped through from the helm pump and can be taken forward and recycled through the helm again.

All the bubble purge system does is replace the container with a plastic tube to transfer the bleed fluid up to the helm. And charge one a couple of hundred bucks.

This assumes that one is putting fluid into the helm pump and pumping it out through the ram; either by pressure or turning the helm.

Boris
 
Colby, for the same reasons you stated, I too ordered the Pro SC. I hope it works as well for us both as was demonstrated in the video.

I’m also hoping the EV 150 with its 1 liter motor instead of the .5 liter pump in the S1000 & EV 100 & much upgraded control system will at least be a lot better than my old S1000. It was adequate for my use until the last couple seasons, when I believe the pump is starting to fail again. I have been aboard & observed the operation of the Garmin auto pilot in both Jody’s Voyager & Bill’s Mystery Girl & believe it superior to the Raymine, but at a cost of another $2000. The cost alone was not the deciding factor in my choice of the EV 150. In the remote area I live, getting new hydraulic lines to match the helm would have been a pain, especially here during the winter with COVID & me wanting to have every thing ready & learned if the Border does open & allow another Alaska trip. The EV 150 was a quick change over to my existing helm hydraulics. The one thing I do think Superior about the EV 150 is the ability to steer the boat with just the little round knob on the 70R controller. Also the use of an auto pilot for me is primarily to have it maintain an accurate temporary heading, until I chose another & occasionally follow a GoTo a waypoint.

I will post what I think of it’s use after getting back on the water & syncing it with the also new Raymaine Axiom 9+ chart.

Jay
 
Although the bubble purge pro may work very well, I can tell you from experience that the simple jumper between both bleed valves works very well. It does the same thing as far as I can see as the bubble pro, except you are using your existing steering line to return the fluid to the helm. As far as the auto pilot bleed, you center your motor and then engage the pilot. Then you trigger the pump to come on by asking the pilot to go 1 degree starboard until it purges the air and then the same to port. go back and fourth a couple of times until you see no more air coming out of the helm to the bottle. I did this on ours and it worked like a charm. all you need is the 10 inch jumper hose with the quick connect fittings to the bleed valves. It cost twenty dollars and it can easily be kept on board as it takes up little room. It is a clean and efficient method with no down side that I can see.
It could also be used to purge the system by inserting the provided Male fitting in to the female quick connector and then run that in to a catch vessels for the old fluid while you pump in new fluid. This would be done one side at a time of course. When finished purging you would reconnect the bleed valves with the jumper and open them both to bleed the system.
 
Boris and Doug I agree with both of you. Actually I do also save my fluid and reuse it. To a extent. But it doesn’t hurt to change it out and there’s always a chance to reintroduce contaminants. I think the same thing about the cost but I don’t just see the vinyl tubing but all the brass fittings that make the process easier and cleaner! The one problem I do have about just putting a tube between the two ram bleeder valves is expecting all the air to rise at the helm without being pumped back thru the system. Even in the bubble purge system video he was still getting air after stating he had purged the system earlier. So it may not be a quick system, but still an improvement over the old way!

Jay the extra size of the pump will probably help greatly. The half liter definitely didn’t cut it.
 
journey on":2hkc4b61 said:
To bleed the Baystar/Seastar system manually, without the loss of fluid, feed the drain lines at the motor ram into a clean container. That will capture the fluid one has pumped through from the helm pump and can be taken forward and recycled through the helm again.

All the bubble purge system does is replace the container with a plastic tube to transfer the bleed fluid up to the helm. And charge one a couple of hundred bucks.

This assumes that one is putting fluid into the helm pump and pumping it out through the ram; either by pressure or turning the helm.

Boris
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Boris, yes that capturing & recycling of fluid can work, but in my doing, it cost me the contamination of my complete hydraulic system in trying to save a few dollars of oil cost.

The couple hundred dollars or much less using Doug’s method to me is well worth it. I’ve bled the system many times with usually much frustration, oil loss & having to have another’s help. If this works as advertised with me doing it, then I will be a very satisfied customer.

Jay
 
colbysmith":2lfq2yxp said:
Boris and Doug I agree with both of you. Actually I do also save my fluid and reuse it. To a extent. But it doesn’t hurt to change it out and there’s always a chance to reintroduce contaminants. I think the same thing about the cost but I don’t just see the vinyl tubing but all the brass fittings that make the process easier and cleaner! The one problem I do have about just putting a tube between the two ram bleeder valves is expecting all the air to rise at the helm without being pumped back thru the system. Even in the bubble purge system video he was still getting air after stating he had purged the system earlier. So it may not be a quick system, but still an improvement over the old way!

Jay the extra size of the pump will probably help greatly. The half liter definitely didn’t cut it.
Click to expand...

I would guess that the bubble pro is a bit more efficient at sending the air to the bottle, But the air does go from the helm to the bottle. you do have to go back and fourth a few times until you see no more air. Maybe more times with just the jumper than with the bubble pro. The air will take the path of least resistance and that path is up. Air goes up, out of the helm and in to the bottle. As Stated their is no need to poke a hole in the bottle. Again, this is from direct experience. You can add the quick connect fittings to the line from the helm to the bottle to make it even more convenient. I had ordered those parts, but they did not come soon enough, so I got impatient and did the job without them and to my surprise, there was still very little spill at the helm when disconnecting. I will use that quick connect the next time I bleed the system.
 
What I should have stated in my previous post, is that in an "open reservoir" air goes up. Under pressure it can be forced up, down or sideways. The helm when hooked to the bottle is an open reservoir and when the air enters it goes up to the bottle. The air can not move from the system downstream of the reservoir in to the reservoir on it's own because the spring loaded check valves in the helm make that a closed system. That is why you have to push it in to the open reservoir with pressure from the helm pump or the auto pilot pump.
 
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