Do I really need Radar?
- Thread starter grutledge
- Start date
T.R. Bauer
New member
My boat came with radar and while I leave it on sometimes, I think the last time I seriously used it was about 5 years ago. Thank goodness it came with the boat.....
matt_unique
New member
I vote for radar. Even if you never have fog - an electronic set of eyes is a hugely valuable tool day and night.
Use it during the day in good weather so when you are cruising at night or of course in fog you will be familiar with it.
Enjoy!
Use it during the day in good weather so when you are cruising at night or of course in fog you will be familiar with it.
Enjoy!
On our September cruise this year, we hit pea-soup fog leaving Friday Harbor, and it did not clear until we got well into the Rosario Straight. Our radar was so sharp that not only did all the boats around us show up, but also the marker buoys, and even a small sailboat head-on. It gave us plenty of time to spot other boats and alter our course accordingly. It should also be pointed out that the newer radar is so precise that you can even see pilings sticking out of the water. The thing that terrifies my wife and I is other people who travel too quickly in fog because they have radar, and are not aware of maritime rules for traveling in such adverse conditions. We need radar to avoid these people, and we sure feel a lot safer. It should also be noted that AIS is also a very good thing to have as well. Sometimes, when you are close to a very, very large ship, in the fog it can look so large that it almost looks like an echo of an adjacent landmass. So these large AIS targets will be easily detected.
colbysmith
Active member
I don't have a C-dory, YET, and hope to eventually get my SeaRay 268 Sundancer sold so I can get one. I do have radar on my boat, as I use it occassionally on the great lakes. And to be honest, I've used the radar more on our local Madison lakes running at night in a crowd during the big July 4th fireworks event. With or without radar, I would not venture out in the fog. However, if you are out, and the fog rolls in, the radar is a nice safety feature. Also another good piece of navagation equipment. This being said, I would not go without radar on a cruiser!
Dene":klkq8q8e said:
A couple of things:
1. AIS is not a substitute for AIS. Radar can show you a 10 ft kayak or a 12 foot aluminum fishing boat. They are not likely to be running an AIS transponder, will not show up as an AIS target, and will not be on a chart plotter.
2. Radar, if on board, should be run at all times. (I believe DaveS posted at length some time ago regarding USCG regulations about that.)
Now on to my thoughts (worth every cent you pay for them). My boat came with radar. I would probably not have purchased it were I buying new. But, having it on board, and running it every time the boat runs has been first, a learning experience, and second made me, among other things, a safer boater, and a radar addict. I can see better than I can, and in every direction, all the time. Like some others here, I adjust mine out and back depending on what I am seeing, and where I am. Rarely out past 6 miles, and many times down to 2 miles.
My radar is not on an arch, and I wrestled with how to carry an inflatable. Mine is mounted forward on the cabin top, on a short post. I like not having the weight of an arch up there. I often wished I had a tall arch in order to put the inflatable under it. Found another way and it works. Use the boat the way it is for while. Raising the radar another 24 inches will not have any particular advantage in range. Look over the albums, and keep asking. Give yourself some time and keep the research going, you will not be disappointed.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Attachments
In Alaska during our boating season it never really gets dark, and fog is rare; I have not missed radar. Back when I commercial fished in the Gulf of Alaska and tendered around Kodiak Radar was necessary even on clear days because GPS technology was for military use only. We fished the winter months also so radar was essential here also. Loran was a pain, 40 mile radar was way easier to use.
If you plan on going out in fog or navigating as night get the radar, my money is better spent filling the fuel tank.
I also like an unobstructed view so anything between me and the windscreen is counterproductive.
If you plan on going out in fog or navigating as night get the radar, my money is better spent filling the fuel tank.
I also like an unobstructed view so anything between me and the windscreen is counterproductive.
Just a word about the FLIR (thermal night vision)--it is not really a substitute for radar, but in some cases it is far better. For example in seeing logs, (I don't agree about seeing Kayaks on Radar--many small boats are hard to see on radar)--so Kayaks, other small boats, person overboard, shore features, bridge abutments (not well seen on radar often).
I understand that the First Mate (hand held--low resolution screen) is reduced in price to about $1999 for the basic model.
AIS gives the ability to see around corners, and to get the name, as well as course, speed, and direction/rate of turn of larger vessels.
All have their place.
I understand that the First Mate (hand held--low resolution screen) is reduced in price to about $1999 for the basic model.
AIS gives the ability to see around corners, and to get the name, as well as course, speed, and direction/rate of turn of larger vessels.
All have their place.
starcrafttom
Active member
Really?? I do it all the time. You will not see them or a 20 or even 6 mile setting but you will see them on a 1/8 mile setting and turn the gain up.
Don't just turn it on and think its doing its job. Play with the manual settings and learn how to use it. I know bob has been on the water far longer then me and around the world but if you don't think you can see small close craft on modern radar you just are not playing with it enough.
And if you have broad band radar you don't have to play with it at all it just shows everything. I got to play with one in a bayliner at the dock and I could clearly see all the pilings of the dock I was on starting at 20 ft from me. They are really great units.
potter water
New member
My C80 spotted a little object floating about a quarter mile ahead on Lake Powell. Water was clam. It was a nice, brand new 6 inch fender when I got up to it. So I'd be surprised...real surprised if I couldn't see a canoe or kayak in time to respond appropriately. And I didn't do tweaking of the settings.
Agree, that you should never use a Radar on its "Auto" settings. This is something which I have advocated in the past. Many of our boats do not have broad band radars--and units such as the excellent Furuno 16XX and 17XX series will not pick up small craft--including Pangas, rowboats Kayaks etc.
The reason I mention this is that one cannot assume that radar will pick up floats, wood, kayaks etc.
Tom, 1/8 mile is just not a practical range to be running a radar, except when entering a harbor, or in very close quarter conditions.
We usually the run the Radar at 6 miles and then down to 3 miles. If you are running at 1/8 mile or less, then you can easily be run over by a larger and faster boat.
There is a good reason that larger yachts and commercial ships have two radars--one run at longer range, and one at short range.
Although the broad band are getting better at longer ranges, the earlier units were not as good a conventional radar over 6 miles. Granted that some of the new broad band radars are spectacular at short ranges.
The other issue is to define the HD (such as the multi function Furuno Sitex, and Garmin, vs the true broad band, which have been mostly Navico products.
Another issue is sea clutter vs small craft--and it does not take much sea clutter to obscure small craft. One cannot assume that there will not be significant sea state during fog or decreased visibility.
Many times you will see a consistent echo from a small craft, but not on each sweep. You have to then concentrate on that echo, and sort it out from the sea clutter.
You may remember that "EarthRace" ran over a Panga off Guatemala, killing at least one fisherman. If you go to the Kayak forums there are several stories of kayaks being run over by powerboats which had radar on.
For Kayaks, small craft, floating objects etc, the FLIR imaging is better than Radar. But one always has to be on the look out!
The reason I mention this is that one cannot assume that radar will pick up floats, wood, kayaks etc.
Tom, 1/8 mile is just not a practical range to be running a radar, except when entering a harbor, or in very close quarter conditions.
We usually the run the Radar at 6 miles and then down to 3 miles. If you are running at 1/8 mile or less, then you can easily be run over by a larger and faster boat.
There is a good reason that larger yachts and commercial ships have two radars--one run at longer range, and one at short range.
Although the broad band are getting better at longer ranges, the earlier units were not as good a conventional radar over 6 miles. Granted that some of the new broad band radars are spectacular at short ranges.
The other issue is to define the HD (such as the multi function Furuno Sitex, and Garmin, vs the true broad band, which have been mostly Navico products.
Another issue is sea clutter vs small craft--and it does not take much sea clutter to obscure small craft. One cannot assume that there will not be significant sea state during fog or decreased visibility.
Many times you will see a consistent echo from a small craft, but not on each sweep. You have to then concentrate on that echo, and sort it out from the sea clutter.
You may remember that "EarthRace" ran over a Panga off Guatemala, killing at least one fisherman. If you go to the Kayak forums there are several stories of kayaks being run over by powerboats which had radar on.
For Kayaks, small craft, floating objects etc, the FLIR imaging is better than Radar. But one always has to be on the look out!
I agree with Bob that although we have all these nice features such as RADAR, AIS, MARPA, and etc., this does not mean that we will necessarily detect all objects in our path. When I'm in dense fog, I travel at slow no wake speeds, and blow the horn for one prolonged blast every two minutes. I'm petrified of inexperienced or complacent boaters who travel at high speeds in dense fog and don't follow maritime law. Radar, while not perfect, should help us to stay clear of these people.
Another point I would like to make is that if a person operates a boat in an area that is relatively free of fog, that does not mean to say that it will always remain that way. In our old CD 16, we operated the boat for more than two years without encountering heavy fog. Then on a warm, sunny, summer afternoon, the wind changed, and blew a heavy fog bank from Block Island Sound into Long Island Sound. Suddenly, we were in zero visibility. To make matters worse, we were right near the mouth of the Thames River, which was frequented by large ferry boats. All around us, we heard people traveling at a high rate of speed in low visibility, presumably because they had radar. We were petrified. This is why we put radar on our new boat.
Rich
Another point I would like to make is that if a person operates a boat in an area that is relatively free of fog, that does not mean to say that it will always remain that way. In our old CD 16, we operated the boat for more than two years without encountering heavy fog. Then on a warm, sunny, summer afternoon, the wind changed, and blew a heavy fog bank from Block Island Sound into Long Island Sound. Suddenly, we were in zero visibility. To make matters worse, we were right near the mouth of the Thames River, which was frequented by large ferry boats. All around us, we heard people traveling at a high rate of speed in low visibility, presumably because they had radar. We were petrified. This is why we put radar on our new boat.
Rich
So here's my radar story. The first Sunday morning of October, we were coming back from Sucia Island to Anacortes. There was a little fog when we left Sucia but by the time we reached Lawrence Point on Orcas it turned into zero visibility. Because we were creeping along at about 5-6 knots, the tide rips were knocking us around and it was really hard to keep a straight course across Rosario Strait.
That day I was glad that I had GPS, radar, AIS and an old fashioned compass at the helm. Our radar is overlaid onto the GPS chart. Shelley had her eyes glued to the water directly in front of our bow watching for logs (or kayaks). I was following the way points, scrolling in and out on the radar and using the physical compass to try and maintain a direct course. When we neared the pass between Sinclair Island and Cypress Island we could see a boat on the radar coming rapidly through the pass directly at us. We were blowing our horn and moving to starboard to get out of their way. They never acknowledged us or blew their horn, they just kept coming at us. We got as close to the rocks as we felt we safely could and passed over their wake just after they passed us. We never made visual contact. I'll never know if they had any idea that we were there, but we had to go 90 degrees to starboard to get out of their path. That one experience made me glad that we had radar and that I had practiced with it when there was visibility.
Lyle
That day I was glad that I had GPS, radar, AIS and an old fashioned compass at the helm. Our radar is overlaid onto the GPS chart. Shelley had her eyes glued to the water directly in front of our bow watching for logs (or kayaks). I was following the way points, scrolling in and out on the radar and using the physical compass to try and maintain a direct course. When we neared the pass between Sinclair Island and Cypress Island we could see a boat on the radar coming rapidly through the pass directly at us. We were blowing our horn and moving to starboard to get out of their way. They never acknowledged us or blew their horn, they just kept coming at us. We got as close to the rocks as we felt we safely could and passed over their wake just after they passed us. We never made visual contact. I'll never know if they had any idea that we were there, but we had to go 90 degrees to starboard to get out of their path. That one experience made me glad that we had radar and that I had practiced with it when there was visibility.
Lyle
One other application I have found to add to the "glad I have RADAR" idea is tracking the WX fronts starting with on the long range settings and working your way through the rain squals by adjusting the gain, range and turning off the rain filter on the C80/4KW RADAR setup. Those squal lines come pretty fast on the lower Ches. Bay. NOAA WX radio may not catch and send an alert for the front where you are located.
RADAR targets can be hidden in the squal lines, but you will get a jump on where any may be and their track before the squal line hits.
Art
RADAR targets can be hidden in the squal lines, but you will get a jump on where any may be and their track before the squal line hits.
Art
starcrafttom
Active member
It also comes in hand when trolling at 2 knots in heavy fog close to the beach with a bunch of kayak parties paddling in and out of the same tide rips we (10 to 20 boats) are fishing. In the sound we are very rarely 6 miles from the beach. It goes back to judging the usefulness of a item or action based on just your usage. when the Broad band radars first hit the market the reviews where bad based on one user groups needs. Off shore east coast fishing tournaments are all based on fishing. How do you find fish? you find bait. How do you find bait? you find birds. How do you find birds? with a open array 40 mile radar that better dam well work because you have spent upward of 50 to 100k to fish with your buddies all week. And that is the user group that is driving a lot of the tech that trickles down to our boats so they get a big say in what gets developed and what does not.
Now I fish for salmon and I don't need a 40 mile radar, or even a 10 mile radar for that matter. I need a radar that will keep me off the beach and the kayaks while I fish and also allow me to run across vast stretches of open water, you know 6 mile maybe? Its all about your use.
I also never run the boat faster then I can see ahead. So far I have never had a close call when I had radar on. I have had several close calls before radar. Mostly other boats going to fast with radar of their own.