Ok, I know that moving about the marina with twins on our TC24 is much easier. It's a blast to be able to spin the boat, but I'm still not comfortable with bringing the boat to the dock. I guess that I had simply adjusted fully to the single engine maneuvers. The twins add a lot of possibilities, but I'm still in the learning curve. I practiced at the slip today and made multiple errors deciding which engine to engage and when. Nothing fatal but an 'interesting' process. Any thoughts or tips?
docking blues with twins
- Thread starter c-ness
- Start date
To really get a feel for what the maneuvering is with twins, practice steering without using the steering wheel. As you're going forward, if you want to turn left, you do so by decreasing left throttle or increasing right throttle. You already know how to rotate by using opposite throttle and forward/reverse, so all your maneuvering is based on that.
Coming into the dock can be done similar as with a single, but instead of using both throttles, you can use the throttle away from the dock with that engine in reverse to pull the boat in. Use the throttle closest to the dock to help with the forward/reverse motion of the boat (applied less than the outside throttle).
It's a learned skill. On a boat like the TomCat, with the motors widely spaced, it is a great help in slow speed maneuvering.
Toss a floating cushion out when in open water and practice bringing the boat to the cushion... bow, stern, and either side of the boat. It soon becomes second nature.
Have fun and keep us posted.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Coming into the dock can be done similar as with a single, but instead of using both throttles, you can use the throttle away from the dock with that engine in reverse to pull the boat in. Use the throttle closest to the dock to help with the forward/reverse motion of the boat (applied less than the outside throttle).
It's a learned skill. On a boat like the TomCat, with the motors widely spaced, it is a great help in slow speed maneuvering.
Toss a floating cushion out when in open water and practice bringing the boat to the cushion... bow, stern, and either side of the boat. It soon becomes second nature.
Have fun and keep us posted.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
starcrafttom
Active member
I would practice with just the forward and reverse without touching the throttles. when we got the 27 last year I was not use to the two level set ups. one throttle and one gear selection. I go the two mixed up more then once and almost pulled poor Susan off the dock. I went back to basics and only used the gear at the dock and just let the engine idle. this makes you think and plan a lot more and at the end of the day a better driver.
matt_unique
New member
The most significant difference I learned docking Napoleon was the fact that the bow walks at precisely the same velocity as the stern while reversing. With a monohull you approach the dock at an angle because the stern walks a greater distance compared to the bow when reversing. For example - with a monohull if you approach the dock and reverse engines with your bow 2' away and the stern 4' away both will arrive at the dock at the same time. If you try this with your Tomcat the bow will contact the dock long before the stern because the sponsons act like keels.
I approach the dock perfectly parallel, and then reverse both engines while turning into the dock. I turn my engines in the opposite direction once I get good 'walk' velocity going to null the movement, make a soft landing, and to get my props away from pylons for example. I think you will find good results if you give this a try.
We all know the many factors and vectors involved with current, wind, available real-estate to make a parallel approach, etc. Forget about that for now (if you can). I will counter steer with my props as I'm approaching the dock if I have to make a tight turn to get into parallel position but forget about this for now. You can make a perfect landing in your Tomcat with nothing but both forward, both reverse, and helm corrections.
Good luck - nothing like the feeling of a great docking!
I approach the dock perfectly parallel, and then reverse both engines while turning into the dock. I turn my engines in the opposite direction once I get good 'walk' velocity going to null the movement, make a soft landing, and to get my props away from pylons for example. I think you will find good results if you give this a try.
We all know the many factors and vectors involved with current, wind, available real-estate to make a parallel approach, etc. Forget about that for now (if you can). I will counter steer with my props as I'm approaching the dock if I have to make a tight turn to get into parallel position but forget about this for now. You can make a perfect landing in your Tomcat with nothing but both forward, both reverse, and helm corrections.
Good luck - nothing like the feeling of a great docking!
starcrafttom
Active member
Matt makes a good point. treat it like a single running both engines the same way. also do you have a steering whell knob? if not get one. best thing in the world for docking.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Here's tip- you'll look weird doing it, but it may help.
Hang you arms straight down at your side. Now, bedn at the elbow until your hands are in fron t of you. Keep your elbows against your side.
Now turn left. Your right hand goes forward, and the left back. Turn right and the opposit happens. That hand movement is what you're doing with the clutches when docking. Thing of how you want the boat to pivot, and move your hands accordingly.
Now the advanced- Want the pivot to be slower, use just one engine. If you want the pivot to be more forward, use just the engine that will push forward in the direction you want.
Want the pivot to slow the boat down, use just the engine that will be in reverse.
And as you've been doing- practice, practice, practice.
Hang you arms straight down at your side. Now, bedn at the elbow until your hands are in fron t of you. Keep your elbows against your side.
Now turn left. Your right hand goes forward, and the left back. Turn right and the opposit happens. That hand movement is what you're doing with the clutches when docking. Thing of how you want the boat to pivot, and move your hands accordingly.
Now the advanced- Want the pivot to be slower, use just one engine. If you want the pivot to be more forward, use just the engine that will push forward in the direction you want.
Want the pivot to slow the boat down, use just the engine that will be in reverse.
And as you've been doing- practice, practice, practice.
matt_unique
New member
I don't know Matt, this sounds an awful lot like directions to do the Robot. Are you sure you're talking about boats? :lol:
One of the issues that you will have to learn to deal with is that, unlike an automobile, the steering does not return to center of its own volition. I find that I frequently need to look back to see if the motors are straight, otherwise my throttle steering will be messed up. Most of the time I maneuver solely with the two throttles, but at the very end I often try to kick the stern over with my spinner knob. If I have to use the throttles after that, leaving the motors at an angle can produce undesirable behavior!
Warren
Warren
One other item to be aware of with the Tom Cat, is how your engines are set up. Many cats are set up opposite to the"normal" of twin screw boats, and thus the prop walk is opposite. Some of the Tom Cats have only right rotation engines, and not counter rotating. So check what set up you have. I normally dock with only one engine, but that is because it is shoal near my seawall/dock, so I use only the outside engine. Works fine--but I also dock very slowly--and basically use the engines as rudders until the very last moment when I pull the stern in toward the dock.
As Matt noted, the Cat hulls act as keels.
As Matt noted, the Cat hulls act as keels.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
matt_unique":2c04iwte said:
Well, I believe in using my skills in as many areas as possible... :lol:
Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the advice. I've learned much. Matt, I too have learned the hard way that rotating the stern to the dock yields a different result in the tomcat. I'll keep practicing and hope to master the ability to spin parallel to the dock in the tight slip where I'm moored so that I can dock parallel. In the meantime, I'll try to master the 'robot' move. Penny will be amazed that I'm dancing again...
Matt Gurnsey":xmat13uw said:
c-ness,
Matt just gave you the best advice so far for someone new to twins. Here's the next best. Once you enter the harbor, make sure the OB's are pointed straight down the center. Then, like a guy told me when I was first starting with the twins, "KEEP YOU HANDS OFF THAT WHEEL, SONNY, Or somebody's gonna have to come over there and break 'em for you"
Do the "robot" if that's what it takes. That makes it easy to remember.
Here's my approach. Come into the dock planning on an arc approaching, close (3-4 feet is close enough) and then turn away, continuing the arc. After the boat is pointing away from the dock, bring both engines into reverse, backing toward the dock, minimal momentum. at about 1 foot from the aft corner touching the dock, put the outboard (engine on the side away from the dock), into forward. Hold the dock side engine in reverse and your boat will twist right up to the dock. Make's it look like you have a bow thruster. :thup :thup
Take heart, it comes easy with some practice, but works smooth as glass after a while just don't forget "KEEP YOU HANDS OFF THAT WHEEL, SONNY, Or somebody's gonna have to come over there and break 'em for you"
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Took the TC24 out today for a little practice in docking. I discovered that I can spin while moving in reverse, spin while moving forward, spin in ways that I never thought I could spin. I wanted to spin in place,however. But it was practice! Beautiful day. Had to shut down a bit early because the starboard engine suddenly quit. Drat! We had to limp home on the port engine [glad we had two!!!]. I wonder what this will cost. Just as I was getting used to twins, I had to dock with a single. It wasn't pretty, but it worked. We came back to the boat later in the day and enjoyed an adult beverage as the sun moved lower in the sky.
T.R. Bauer
New member
The best advice came from a dredge captain I know well and what he says applies to both single engine boats and twins. His wise advice is to never come into the dock any faster than you can afford. I live by it.....
Warren asked:
"Harvey, how do you adapt this for entering a slip from a fairway?"
It is easy. Since the stern is where the OB's are and that is where the control is coming from that is the portion of the boat that moves laterally, when the OB's are turned. Reversing the propulsion of one engine will twist the boat, but you want to contact the dock first and not have too much twist. AND for sure there isn't room to do the "half arc" approach in a slip, usually.
SO.... BACK IN. Approach your slip. Using the throttles and F-R gearing, rotate the boat to point away from your slip, THEN gently back into the slip, with a slight twist towards where you want to contact it. 6" to a foot from that point, the far side (NO not the cartoon :roll
the opposite side of the boat from the dock OB needs to go into Forward with just a slight power bump to overcome the rearward inertia, and then twist the bow towards the doc.
An alternative to the forward power bump and twist might be to put a stern line onto a cleat, and then put that farside :wink: engine into forward at idle and it will bring the boat over to the dock and hold it there. :shock: just want to make real sure that stern line and cleat are up to that.
I have used that only a very few times when there is an off dock wind or current. It is quick to get the stern line on, ( a loop over the dock cleat and then a twist and tie on the boat cleat), and then bring the boat to the dock and stabilize before disembarking to do the bow line. Takes longer to write it out here than to do it.
Love My Twins, "Port and Starbird"
Harvey
SleepyC :moon :moon
"Harvey, how do you adapt this for entering a slip from a fairway?"
It is easy. Since the stern is where the OB's are and that is where the control is coming from that is the portion of the boat that moves laterally, when the OB's are turned. Reversing the propulsion of one engine will twist the boat, but you want to contact the dock first and not have too much twist. AND for sure there isn't room to do the "half arc" approach in a slip, usually.
SO.... BACK IN. Approach your slip. Using the throttles and F-R gearing, rotate the boat to point away from your slip, THEN gently back into the slip, with a slight twist towards where you want to contact it. 6" to a foot from that point, the far side (NO not the cartoon :roll
the opposite side of the boat from the dock OB needs to go into Forward with just a slight power bump to overcome the rearward inertia, and then twist the bow towards the doc. An alternative to the forward power bump and twist might be to put a stern line onto a cleat, and then put that farside :wink: engine into forward at idle and it will bring the boat over to the dock and hold it there. :shock: just want to make real sure that stern line and cleat are up to that.
I have used that only a very few times when there is an off dock wind or current. It is quick to get the stern line on, ( a loop over the dock cleat and then a twist and tie on the boat cleat), and then bring the boat to the dock and stabilize before disembarking to do the bow line. Takes longer to write it out here than to do it.
Love My Twins, "Port and Starbird"
Harvey
SleepyC :moon :moon
At the marina where Sea Angel is kept we have floating finger piers that reach out from a bulkhead abt 35' long. These piers are 90 degrees to the tidal flow and face south.
The preferred method I have to use here is, center the helm, use the throttles, BACK INTO the CURRENT to swing the CD onto the current side of the pier. This is done so the fork lifts can pull the boats out in a safe manner. It does get very interesting when the wind is opposite the current with all the sail area of the CD25 and the shallow draft.
SO, SLOW in rev, 90 degrees to the dock's end, at this point I start my approach to start the swing, 4-6' from the pier end and abt midships. I use the outboard eng in rev.; the inboard from idle to fwd to control the rate of turn. I try to keep far enough away fro the dock to allow recovery from wind gusts as they come down the Creek. When I am positioned between the docks, usually abt 2'-3' from it, I take the engines out of gear and let the current bring me to the dock. All this is done only with the throttles. I will make minor adjustment to have the CD land parallel. This must work... No 'dings', so far.
I must admit that the worst time I had it took 10 tries because of wind conditions and no space on the current side of the dock.. I ended up tying off at the end of the dock and pivoting in. This is what happens when there is but one open dock with boats occupying both sides of each unit. Trying to thread the needle without hitting another boat can be fun, at times like this.
Bottom line- PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and MORE PRACTICE; as it was suggested before; in open waters and at your home dock with various conditions. Remember, speed is an ingredient for much trouble.
Art
The preferred method I have to use here is, center the helm, use the throttles, BACK INTO the CURRENT to swing the CD onto the current side of the pier. This is done so the fork lifts can pull the boats out in a safe manner. It does get very interesting when the wind is opposite the current with all the sail area of the CD25 and the shallow draft.
SO, SLOW in rev, 90 degrees to the dock's end, at this point I start my approach to start the swing, 4-6' from the pier end and abt midships. I use the outboard eng in rev.; the inboard from idle to fwd to control the rate of turn. I try to keep far enough away fro the dock to allow recovery from wind gusts as they come down the Creek. When I am positioned between the docks, usually abt 2'-3' from it, I take the engines out of gear and let the current bring me to the dock. All this is done only with the throttles. I will make minor adjustment to have the CD land parallel. This must work... No 'dings', so far.
I must admit that the worst time I had it took 10 tries because of wind conditions and no space on the current side of the dock.. I ended up tying off at the end of the dock and pivoting in. This is what happens when there is but one open dock with boats occupying both sides of each unit. Trying to thread the needle without hitting another boat can be fun, at times like this.
Bottom line- PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and MORE PRACTICE; as it was suggested before; in open waters and at your home dock with various conditions. Remember, speed is an ingredient for much trouble.
Art
smittypaddler
New member
My neighbor Jeff in the slip next to mine is a professional captain who lives on his boat when not working. His boat draws 3.5 feet, and that's about how deep it is in his slip, and he's about 20 feet from shore. A single screw and no side thrusters, yet he maneuvers his big boat better than I do with twin outboards. I'm envious. There are photos of him maneuvering out of his slip here:
http://smittypaddler.com/cds/cdc/fl11/d110326p.htm
http://smittypaddler.com/cds/cdc/fl11/d110326p.htm
matt_unique
New member
smittypaddler":jofl6bb2 said:
Ha ha - one of the best fringe benefits of working as a captain.