Interesting--there is a thread on "the Hull truth" where some guy is putting two 225 hp outboards on a 23 foot boat--and since he does not have a counter rotating lower unit, is going to put a CR prop and run it in reverse (this will be at WOT or close)--some of the folks think it is probably OK--I didn't. But I doubt that running a short distance would destroy the gears. I would look at the shifter--don't you have electronic controls?
Doryman's Meanderings
- Thread starter Doryman
- Start date
I talked to the Yamaha serv reps at the Miami show they said you should never run the boat in reverse the bearings are not made to take the load Bob you are right The guys at Hull truth better talk to the serv guys at Yamaha
Warren only running a mile or so should be OK I hope it's a linkage problem anyway the serv guys said drain the lower unit oil and make sure there is no metal in the oil .
Warren only running a mile or so should be OK I hope it's a linkage problem anyway the serv guys said drain the lower unit oil and make sure there is no metal in the oil .
journey on
New member
When we were cruising the East Coast, everywhere we went we heard the phrase " this is unusual weather." Unless it was good weather, and that was normal weather. We finally figured out that the East Coast has different, stronger weather than the West Coast. We get storms, certainly, but in general the weather is milder, and gets milder as you go down the West Coast. Those East Coast fronts that came through every other week were gems. Anywhere we went, it was "unusual weather."
Anyway I hope you DON'T get "unusual weather."
Boris
Anyway I hope you DON'T get "unusual weather."
Boris
Joe Btfsplk
We are feeling more and more like Joe Btfsplk is accompanying us on this trip (if you are too young to remember Joe, Google Li'l Abner.)
In my last post to the blog (some of this is redundant to the Brats) I mentioned that I had swapped the props so they were installed on the correct motor. I had started the port motor and it worked correctly, so I thought all was well. Thursday I went out to get the boat ready to go out and fired up the port motor. All was well. I then started the starboard motor, but as soon as the engine started, the boat wanted to take off in forward gear, even though the shifter indicated it was in neutral. Obviously this was not normal, so we called Bulldog Boatwerks and discussed the situation with them. They indicated that I might have damaged the lower end gearcase in some way, but they could not service it on the water -- I would have to bring the boat to them.
After much consideration, I decided to once again enlist the aid of Vessel Assist (Tow Boat US). They dispatched a boat to come the following morning to help us get back to the launch ramp -- and more importantly, on the trailer (now that I have been through the process, I realize I could have loaded the boat on my own using the winch, but at the time I was concerned about getting the boat straight on the trailer without power to both sides.) I certainly have been getting my money's worth from Boat US this year! Hopefully I will not have further need for their services!
Once the boat was on the trailer, we towed it down to Bulldog, but because we arrived on a Friday afternoon, we had to wait until this morning (Monday) to find out the bad news. Unfortunately, it is not a simple linkage problem. It appears that when I ran the starboard motor in reverse, with the wrong prop on it, the force of the prop was directed toward the gearcase (forward), instead of aft. As a result, the propeller shaft became overheated and expanded to the point where it would no longer slide back and forth in the bearing. At least that is my understanding of what the tech told me.
We are now in wait mode until tomorrow to find out when Bulldog can get the part in. The earliest will probably be Thursday, so we packed up the truck and headed east. We are currently in a KOA Kamping Kabin somewhere near the Okeechobee Lake. We will probably visit Fort Lauderdale and some of the other places we didn't get to on the boat.
I want to thank Allen Hitchcock and his cousins Bud and Kathie, visiting housesitters from Connecticut, for letting us use his travel trailer over the weekend while we waited for word from Bulldog. Allen's generosity was in keeping with the highest traditions of the C-Brats.
Warren
We are feeling more and more like Joe Btfsplk is accompanying us on this trip (if you are too young to remember Joe, Google Li'l Abner.)
In my last post to the blog (some of this is redundant to the Brats) I mentioned that I had swapped the props so they were installed on the correct motor. I had started the port motor and it worked correctly, so I thought all was well. Thursday I went out to get the boat ready to go out and fired up the port motor. All was well. I then started the starboard motor, but as soon as the engine started, the boat wanted to take off in forward gear, even though the shifter indicated it was in neutral. Obviously this was not normal, so we called Bulldog Boatwerks and discussed the situation with them. They indicated that I might have damaged the lower end gearcase in some way, but they could not service it on the water -- I would have to bring the boat to them.
After much consideration, I decided to once again enlist the aid of Vessel Assist (Tow Boat US). They dispatched a boat to come the following morning to help us get back to the launch ramp -- and more importantly, on the trailer (now that I have been through the process, I realize I could have loaded the boat on my own using the winch, but at the time I was concerned about getting the boat straight on the trailer without power to both sides.) I certainly have been getting my money's worth from Boat US this year! Hopefully I will not have further need for their services!
Once the boat was on the trailer, we towed it down to Bulldog, but because we arrived on a Friday afternoon, we had to wait until this morning (Monday) to find out the bad news. Unfortunately, it is not a simple linkage problem. It appears that when I ran the starboard motor in reverse, with the wrong prop on it, the force of the prop was directed toward the gearcase (forward), instead of aft. As a result, the propeller shaft became overheated and expanded to the point where it would no longer slide back and forth in the bearing. At least that is my understanding of what the tech told me.
We are now in wait mode until tomorrow to find out when Bulldog can get the part in. The earliest will probably be Thursday, so we packed up the truck and headed east. We are currently in a KOA Kamping Kabin somewhere near the Okeechobee Lake. We will probably visit Fort Lauderdale and some of the other places we didn't get to on the boat.
I want to thank Allen Hitchcock and his cousins Bud and Kathie, visiting housesitters from Connecticut, for letting us use his travel trailer over the weekend while we waited for word from Bulldog. Allen's generosity was in keeping with the highest traditions of the C-Brats.
Warren
Good News, Bad News
While waiting for news from Bulldog on the repairs to my outboards, we took a day trip to Ft. Lauderdale's RiverWalk area. While there, feeling quite boatless, we opted to take a 1.5 hour tour boat trip of the area (I can just see Jim B. at the helm of this boat.) Boats, boats, boats everywhere! The majority seem to be gold-platers but a variety of smaller boats as well -- but we did not see any C-Dories.
Here is a link to the first of some photos taken from the tour boat. Note particularly the very retro or art deco or Buck Rogers boat we saw twice, the second time under tow by two mini-tugs. Apparently it is cheaper to pay these tugs $1000 to tow you on the river than to risk the liability of a collision -- and it is crowded and narrow enough that is a real possibility!
Yesterday we drove around Lake Okeechobee. For the most part, very boring!
The bad news from Bulldog: Not only did the shaft and gears of the starboard motor expand, at a potential cost of $2200, but they also found that I bent the shaft of the port motor at a cost of $600. The good news: the starboard motor is covered under warranty! The not-so-good news: $882 is owed to Bulldog. Ouch! The good news: we pick up the boat tomorrow (Friday) morning!
We're headed up to St. Petersburg and then after a few days there to Apalachicola.
While waiting for news from Bulldog on the repairs to my outboards, we took a day trip to Ft. Lauderdale's RiverWalk area. While there, feeling quite boatless, we opted to take a 1.5 hour tour boat trip of the area (I can just see Jim B. at the helm of this boat.) Boats, boats, boats everywhere! The majority seem to be gold-platers but a variety of smaller boats as well -- but we did not see any C-Dories.
Here is a link to the first of some photos taken from the tour boat. Note particularly the very retro or art deco or Buck Rogers boat we saw twice, the second time under tow by two mini-tugs. Apparently it is cheaper to pay these tugs $1000 to tow you on the river than to risk the liability of a collision -- and it is crowded and narrow enough that is a real possibility!
Yesterday we drove around Lake Okeechobee. For the most part, very boring!
The bad news from Bulldog: Not only did the shaft and gears of the starboard motor expand, at a potential cost of $2200, but they also found that I bent the shaft of the port motor at a cost of $600. The good news: the starboard motor is covered under warranty! The not-so-good news: $882 is owed to Bulldog. Ouch! The good news: we pick up the boat tomorrow (Friday) morning!
We're headed up to St. Petersburg and then after a few days there to Apalachicola.
Hi Warren,
Was that the Jungle Queen you toured on? One of my favorite rides through Ft. Lauderdale.
They also do a run down to the Tamiami Marina in Miami once or twice a week... tour the ICW and let someone else do the driving. :wink:
Sorry to hear about the repairs, but good that Bulldog was able to get it done in an expeditious manner. Hope the rest of your cruising in the "Sunshine" (???) State is smooth sailing... no point in pushing that UNLIMITED towing coverage.
We enjoyed the run from the east to the west across the Okeechobee by boat, but the lake itself was the least interesting part. Plenty to see on the waterway on either side.
Best wishes,
Jim
Was that the Jungle Queen you toured on? One of my favorite rides through Ft. Lauderdale.
They also do a run down to the Tamiami Marina in Miami once or twice a week... tour the ICW and let someone else do the driving. :wink: Sorry to hear about the repairs, but good that Bulldog was able to get it done in an expeditious manner. Hope the rest of your cruising in the "Sunshine" (???) State is smooth sailing... no point in pushing that UNLIMITED towing coverage.
We enjoyed the run from the east to the west across the Okeechobee by boat, but the lake itself was the least interesting part. Plenty to see on the waterway on either side.
Best wishes,
Jim
Jim, I don't think it was a Jungle Queen boat. The only boat that I saw that matched that description was a little water taxi. This boat was like the ones that Argosy runs from Seattle's Alaskan Way (maybe a bit smaller.)
Is that retro boat a production boat or a one-off? Anyone know?
Warren
Is that retro boat a production boat or a one-off? Anyone know?
Warren
Sorry to hear of your problems with the lower units!
I suspect that the "buck rogers" boat is a one off. Never seen another like it--although there are other Art Deco boats.
Most boats under tow in that area are being taken to yards for work etc. There are lots of yards up the various canals and parts of the river. Some of the really large boats may require a real tug. Many of the super yachts not only have twin screws, but both bow and stern thrusters. I agree that it is unusual to tow stern first--and especially this way!
I was on the Board of Directors of Seven Seas Cruising Association for 3 years and went to Fort Lauderdale for board meetings 4 times a year--Since one of the board members lived on the New River, we got frequent tours of the area. I am glad I live in Pensacola....!
I suspect that the "buck rogers" boat is a one off. Never seen another like it--although there are other Art Deco boats.
Most boats under tow in that area are being taken to yards for work etc. There are lots of yards up the various canals and parts of the river. Some of the really large boats may require a real tug. Many of the super yachts not only have twin screws, but both bow and stern thrusters. I agree that it is unusual to tow stern first--and especially this way!
I was on the Board of Directors of Seven Seas Cruising Association for 3 years and went to Fort Lauderdale for board meetings 4 times a year--Since one of the board members lived on the New River, we got frequent tours of the area. I am glad I live in Pensacola....!
Discovery":2yk8v1k8 said:
No, it was Naples Prop, and I am still trying to decide what to do about it. I may send them a letter and hope they do the right thing, but keep in mind that Yamaha says the problems with my starboard engine were covered by warranty, which implies that putting the wrong prop on that motor was not the cause of the damage. And the damage to the port motor was definitely operator-caused, which is why I had to pay for the new shaft on that motor.
Warren
Putting a set of props on backwards and running for a short period should not make anything break . I have seen a lower unit that an unscrupulous dealer flopped the gears in [order to change rotation] run for months before failure on a charter boat . The reverse gear is not made for continual running , although it is certainly able to handle short duty cycles.
Marc
Marc
Wefings":2yn7qu0e said:
If that is the case, then it sounds like there was a defect in the starboard motor gears which running in reverse exacerbated and caused premature failure?
We are in the St. Petersburg KOA. We are going to wait for the cold front to pass over before we launch for a few days of exploring. We have come to the realization that this trip is more boat camping than cruising, but we have grown to accept that and are now comfortable with it. We're hoping for some nice weather for the remainder of our stay in Florida!
Warren
For what it's worth, it is very common for the Yamahas in Pennekamp's rental fleet to lose their lower unit. I watched them change two out during our stay. The perception of the dockmaster and the mechanic is that Yamaha had a recognized problem. I do not know anything about the vintage or any other details, and I'm sure I'm sticking my nose in where I know diddley squat. 
Greg
Greg
We are now enjoying the Florida sunshine and warmth -- finally! We trailered to Fort DeSoto Park, which was recommended to us by Roger (flrockytop). Here is a lonk to a satellite view of the park. It is the finest launch facility I have ever seen in Florida, and in some ways is better than the new Everett facility, which is pretty darn good.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll= ... 3&t=h&z=18
From there we drove, following the well-marked channels, to theTierra Verde Resort Marina, which you can see in this satellite view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... &z=12&om=1
This marina was purchased by a group of investors who bought out all the leaseholders with the intent of tearing it down and rebuilding -- but then the economy tanked. So the facility has old wood docks, two vacant, condemned condo/motel buildings and a dry storage. I hope the investors can hang on until the economy improves -- it must be extremely expensive to carry all this nonproductive waterfront real estate.
That aside, we love St. Petersburg, particularly some of the older areas like Pass-a-Grille. We both have been dealing with feeling a bit under the weather but hopefully soon we will get out and do some exploring. Currently the weather has been slightly cloudy and a bit breezy, with temperatures of 74/60.
We're staying here until Monday when we head north to Apalachicola and Pensacola again.
Warren
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll= ... 3&t=h&z=18
From there we drove, following the well-marked channels, to theTierra Verde Resort Marina, which you can see in this satellite view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... &z=12&om=1
This marina was purchased by a group of investors who bought out all the leaseholders with the intent of tearing it down and rebuilding -- but then the economy tanked. So the facility has old wood docks, two vacant, condemned condo/motel buildings and a dry storage. I hope the investors can hang on until the economy improves -- it must be extremely expensive to carry all this nonproductive waterfront real estate.
That aside, we love St. Petersburg, particularly some of the older areas like Pass-a-Grille. We both have been dealing with feeling a bit under the weather but hopefully soon we will get out and do some exploring. Currently the weather has been slightly cloudy and a bit breezy, with temperatures of 74/60.
We're staying here until Monday when we head north to Apalachicola and Pensacola again.
Warren
I was wondering about prop rotation so I took a look at some of the twin eng. boats at the Miami boat show . Some of them were rotating outward and some were rotating inward like on your tomcat255. I would assume that's where the problem came to be . naples prop assumed the outward position .
I guess Warren we should have run the boat in Naples bay as I had suggested and then we could have alleviated the problems . We could have changed the props and no big deal . You still might of had the problems because your skeg was bent and your props were buggered up and Naples prop did take you right away at 10am and had you out by 2pm So he took you in right away.and maybe that was the problem I guess you should have looked at the props to see that they were on right engine . Just my opinion .
I guess Warren we should have run the boat in Naples bay as I had suggested and then we could have alleviated the problems . We could have changed the props and no big deal . You still might of had the problems because your skeg was bent and your props were buggered up and Naples prop did take you right away at 10am and had you out by 2pm So he took you in right away.and maybe that was the problem I guess you should have looked at the props to see that they were on right engine . Just my opinion .