Electric Heater

D

Donald Tyson

Member
Some of you were able to break down how long something would run on the batteries I have (two 27 size AGM storage). Is this even possible to run a ceramic heater for more than a couple of hours. Would I be tremendously wiser to take a slip and use shore power for the three nights I'll be there. Kim and I are planning to visit New England during the second week of October...probably the Newport area or Mystic. We don't have a Wallace or similar.
I've heard that a cast Iron Frying pan over the Alcohol burner works well but I can't imagine it to be for any duration to speak of and safety would be questionable. While we could probably just tough-it-up and do without heat for three nights it may be nice to have it as well.
Thoughts?
 
I've used a 'Mr Heater' portable buddy heater. Obviously using ANY sort of heater requires an elevated sense of awareness/safety. This is a good unit with an auto-shutoff on tipover. I set it on the floor on wooden cutting board...with a at least of foot of space around it in all directions. I kept it on a middle to low heat setting. I cracked a window to try and minimize condensation. And it worked it quite well.

https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Mr-Heater ... geBingFlow
 
A 12 volt 300 Watt electric heater needs 25 amps of DC power to work. With an average storage battery, you would be lucky to see an hour of heating before voltage dropped too low to continue functioning. I don't know if a 300 watt heater would make much difference.
 
To run a 120 V AC heater would require at east a 1500 watt inverter (12V DC to 120 V AC). On low these heaters pull 800 to 1000 watts. (80 to 100 amps 12 V DC) At this level, you are looking at about an hour max for two group 27 batteries.

A 12 volt 300 watt heater woud pull somewhere near the 25 amps (as per Flashyfish.). That would last about 4 hours, but would not really give you enough heat.

I don't like the Mr heater or Mr. Buddy. They do have oxygen sensors, but CO remaoins an issue. You can buy expensive CO meters for airplanes or less sensative househod types.

Best are the forced draft/blower type which are used in trucks and RV's. There are boat specific boat units both real Esphar or Chinese/Russian copies.

In AK we used the electric at the dock and the Wallas stovetop when on the hook. It took the chill off, but not "warm".

I have pronoucned dead all too many who have used CO producing heaters in boats and RV's....Each was a tragedy in itsef.
 
As mentioned by others, two 12 V batteries will not provide enough power to heat the cabin overnight in October in Massachusetts. In my 22' cruiser I have found that I need about 500 watts to keep the cabin temperature above 65 degrees when the outside temp fall to the low 50's. Even with electric heating I still need to keep some windows open to keep the carbon dioxide levels from our breathing below 800 ppm. Carbon dioxide levels above that can lead to headaches. Any combustion based heaters without adequate ventilation will raise CO2 to toxic levels within minutes. FYI the CO2 levels we breathe out is about 40,000 ppm. Two of us in our cabin with everything closed will raise the CO2 levels to 1500 ppm in less than hour (actually measured).

Since I don't like the noise of heater fans running I am using a convection heater with a thermostat and two settings 700 and 1500 watts.

My 48 V battery bank for propulsion holds 20kWh or energy, and I do have a 48V to 120V inverter. Even with that I probably could not heat the cabin for more than a day or so. But in colder weather we do plan our cruising from marina to marina with shore power.
 
Though it varies, your body will produce about 100 watts of heat sleeping, or about 800 watt-hours through the night. Add a partner, and you have twice that, or more energy than a 100 amp 12 volt battery LiFePO4 battery will provide in that same time, and you don't need to recharge the heater. You can sleep warmly if you add insulation, and a mummy-style sleeping bag works fine for me. I have two that zip together, and we've been relatively comfortable in -30F winter Alberta. Add a couple of dogs, and you're golden. You really need to be careful with buddy-type heaters, which I do use, but only with great ventilation in the cockpit of my boat and in deer blinds. I also am extremely cautious about propane, which is heavier than air and can fill you cabin and cockpit if it leaks. Propane emissions produce both CO2 and water vapor, and the water vapor condenses on cold surfaces. It is best to put combustion air outside of your cabin, and to guard against the possibility of CO poisoning which Bob mentions. Webasto diesel heaters are a gold standard and well worth the investment if you use your boat in colder areas and/or places. I just took a trip south from Prince Rupert, BC, Canada, and it was always a joy to step back into a warm, dry cabin after fishing outside in the cold rain.
 
Install a Webasto heater! I had one in my 22, and now in my 25. Safe and efficient. At least as well as can be expected for an uninsulated C-Dory! 8) Colby
 
Hi Don from Kennebunkport, Maine aboard American Patriot.

If you’re like us (but of course you’re not), we looked for an anchoring out option power alternative that would satisfy these needs:

Cook skillet meals (we can do without a toaster oven or toaster after learning how to toast bread on the skillet) inside the cabin with ventilation or (almost always) outside in the cockpit

Make a hot, hot pot of coffee on cold mornings

Heat water for a basin bath before bed (in the percolator)

Take the chill off the air while awake in the morning

Not requiring a lot of space, a lot of energy, or a lot of expense for something we use so rarely (only three nights over six weeks on the Great Lakes Buffalo to Paducah, KY Adventure).

We had an Origo pressurized alcohol stove and didn’t like it. We eventually settled on the portable one-pound propane bottle solution to run a $29 Coleman two burner SS camp stove in the cockpit to make percolator coffee in a high-quality SS model, a skillet that can be used on either the NuWave Gold induction plate or gas (use icons are stamped on the bottom). And a Little Buddy chill-chaser we use only while awake with good ventilation and a quality CO detector with two cheaper back-ups. Never use any while underway.

Study Bob’s comments carefully, if you go this route make a 4” sewer PVC bottle holder kept hanging OVERBOARD at all times and replace the plastic caps with screw-on bronze caps. Never refill bottles and never McGyver if it won’t light. Grand Total investment under $100 for heat, coffee, meals, bathing: stows in a small out of the way cabinet. Links to these items are elsewhere on this site. The problem with cheap CO detectors is not that they don’t work, but that they alarm too easily, which is annoying. Get UL Marine approved. If you end up anchoring out frequently, other options mentioned are safer and may work better. A portable 2,000 watt generator is another option with its own dangers and space hog concerns. We agree that if cabin heat is your only desire that the diesel heater solutions are safest and best.

Enjoy and learn from the debate; there are multiple ways to skin that cat.
John
 
I’m sitting on the C-Otter this chilly morning in Canada toasty warm with our Webasto diesel heater. If you plan on boating in colder weather this is the way to go. Colby turned me on to this a couple years ago. Warm is good!
 
GulfcoastJohn, I'm Jealous. I'd like to be anywhere from there to Bass harbor (Acadia) right now. They are my favorite areas for dead-of-summer vacation. We currently perk our coffee and we love our Origo alcohol stove. 1lb Propane has its benefits but the gas kind of scares me.

I had wanted the classic Barge heater, the Dickinson Diesel heater or similar, as I had the desire to sit in front of a radiating style of heat. There is no place to mount it. Tom and others thanks for breaking the numbers down for me on how long a heater would last on the available batteries. We would be wise to plan our fall trips around marina stays I guess.

Robhwa, to support your advice I guess I'd have to pay 12 human heaters to lay around the cabin in order to keep it warm for us. Sleeping bag sounds like a good solution. As a kid on the farm we had 120 cows in the barn and even during zero degree weather their heat kept the air above 45-50 degrees.

diy887, I have a nice piece of 5/8 plato stand on or place a potty or heater on. nice to have a level spot.

Colby, Ya done it again. You raised the bar so high making it necessary for me to dig deeper into my pocket for more retirement money. Makes sense to get it right but it will be on next yrs budget.

Avidmagnum12 Canada is a long way from Hontoon. Hope you make it back in time.
 
I have used the Little Buddy heater on my 22.

It is an infrared heater, so it heats things that absorb IR, but not really the cabin air. Since it is a combustion heater it needs fresh air. The air in the cabin can get unpleasant if the heater is used without sufficient fresh air.

Used correctly, the Little Buddy heater can be useful. However, there are better solutions.
 
For a short time fix I love my little buddy heaters. they have a low oxygen sensor that shuts it off if need be. But for a better long term solution I put in a diesel heater. and Now they are very cheap to buy off amazon. They even have self contained heaters that you can move and store if you dont want to install one as I have. Just saw one for $105 bucks. Thats cheaper then a Little buddy. heater This one is 97 dollars
 
Just be aware that almost all the of 8Kw heaters are not really 8Kw. They are just relabeled 4Kw heaters. (HLN makes a real 8Kw heater and it is about 2x bigger than a 4Kw unit.)

Unless you are in the very cold a 2Kw heater is likely sufficient for a cd 22 or 25. FWIW, I heat my two car garage with a HLN 4Kw heater when I need to do work there in the late fall and early spring.
 
ssobol said:
Just be aware that almost all the of 8Kw heaters are not really 8Kw. They are just relabeled 4Kw heaters. (HLN makes a real 8Kw heater and it is about 2x bigger than a 4Kw unit.)

Unless you are in the very cold a 2Kw heater is likely sufficient for a cd 22 or 25. FWIW, I heat my two car garage with a HLN 4Kw heater when I need to do work there in the late fall and early spring.
Click to expand...
This is my experience too. I have 3 Chinese diesel heaters labeled 2 to 8 Kw. They all produce about the same amount of heat at high, but even then, it is a lot of heat, and I use them for my camper and yurt where I can put them outside and direct the heat inside. I don't trust them in a boat. I have had no real problems except for one where the display became very dim. For comparison, the 8 Kw Webasto costs about $8,000, but you can get a 4Kw Webasto for about $1000. I don't understand the price difference. You might cover your windows with insulation if it gets extremely cold in your C-Dory as I do in my pickup camper (down to -30F). Beware the China site TEMU, though I have also used it successfully. I bought some 20 volt "DeWalt" 6 Ah batteries direct from China through Temu. They were extremely light and produced about 0.5 Ah. The charge indicator never got above 1 bar. I did send them back for a refund, but do beware that things you receive aren't always as advertised. I have had better but some bad experiences with Amazon, in fairness. Fortunately, except in one case (chocolates from Germany) they took back for refunds. Good luck heating your C-Dory!
 
Back
Top