Engine making oil fix

B

BBlalock

New member
My 2013 Yamaha 200 has made oil for a while. Every 6-7 hrs I was changing the oil. Oil level rose about 1/2" in that time. Seemed to run just fine. 610 hrs.
Had the bleed down test yesterday and was told they could not get any of the cylinders past 90#. Told should be around 200#. We discussed how did it even run with that low of pressure.
The fix appears to be $26k for a new 200. It can be installed by the end of next week.
Does it make good sense to go this route when I'm thinking I would have a boat for 1-2 more years? My son's have boats and they say use theirs.
Or, sell as is and allow for the new owner to repower as they want.
:sad
Benton
 
Could it be due to improper break-in procedure or lots of low rpm operation? I was listening to an outboard podcast where it was recommended if your experiencing that, you may try to redo the break-in procedure to better seat the rings.
 
I had this same problem with a used outboard I ended up with. The fix was to pull apart the motor, have the head re bored, install new piston rings and start the break in procedure over. The age, hours on the motor and cost did not make financial sense.
 
I bought the boat with 285 hrs on it. My dealer felt the break-in may not have been done correctly.
Dealer and I discussed a new powerhead and something else at 25k for the parts to go on an 11 yo motor. Didn't make any sense for that option.
I've never heard of being able to rebrake-in any motors. I have run quite a bit of Ring Free through it too.
 
You will never get back the amount put into the new motor. On the other hand you will never get the value for your boat if selling it "as is" without a running motor!

I probably would (have) pulled the block, stripped it down and taken it to a local reboring shop--as mentioned above. I can no longer do that mechanical type of work due to health, so I hire the head mechanic off hours from a dealership I never use. His rate is $85 an hour privately and he does not pad the bill. If I take the motor to his dealer it is $150 an hour. He makes a little on the parts, since I pay retail and he gets them at wholesale.

Or a re-manufactured block--I see them as little as $5,000.
 
Bob and others,
After reading your responses:
I have made some calls to some independent, certified, Yamaha mechs to see what they might offer. If they don't do machine work they likely 'know a guy'.
 
Here’s my story on my 2016 200 hp Yamaha. I bought the engine new and do my own oil changes. I thought my engine was “making oil” because it would rise over the full oil mark when I’d check it a few days later. How could that happen? Engine still under warranty so I took it to the dealer and asked them to check it out. Oil sample showed no fuel in the oil. He then asked if I tilted the engine up after warming it up. I said no and he started that I may have had some oil lingers in the top end that worked its way down to the sump later.
From then on I tilted the engine for about 15 minutes before draining. We also do not fill to the full mark. More like half way. Over 1,000 hours later I do it the same way and it never goes over the mid mark on the dip stick. I change oil every 100 hours with a new filter.
I broke the engine in by the book I have not done any compression tests as the engine runs perfectly.
Your problem is probably different but it’s something to think about.
 
You are not going to know what is wrong with it until you take it apart. If there is carbon on the oil compression rings, and given your low hours it's probably everywhere else too, at times it just has to be physically removed by disassembly and cleaning. I know that is not what anyone ever wants to hear because labor is so expensive. But while I say that, I completely concede lots of time using chemistry works too. And when combined with spirited operation and the heat that produces, sometimes you get lucky because those compression rings free up, the valve and head surfaces clean up a bit, and your compression is restored.

As far as break in procedures, my personal opinion is people baby stuff way too much. I'm not saying beat the hell out of it, but every engine (but one) I have personally built I have enthusiastically driven after a 100 mile oil change to be sure those rings are set. The one I didn't? Hmmmm....it was an oil burning gutless pig at first and I do not believe it was a coincidence.
 
Thanks for the comments from the group. I can say:
1. My boat is on a lift so I almost never tilt the engine up. The first I knew I had an issue was when I checked the oil and oil ran out the dipstick hole and I extracted about 10 qts out. Apparently I didn't check the oil as I should have.
2. I have run a bunch of Ring Free through on high levels with no change. And also made WOT runs for 45 min straight with no change.
3. My local shop did the compression and bleed down and said 95# in all 4 cyl and 35% bleed down
4. A different independent certified mech doesn't believe those numbers so we are going to retest this week and I will observe.
5. Special thanks to Dr. Bob for the rebuild comment and $. If this proves out I will go in that direction.
Benton
 
BBlalock":1lpt1smv said:
Thanks for the comments from the group. I can say:
1. My boat is on a lift so I almost never tilt the engine up. The first I knew I had an issue was when I checked the oil and oil ran out the dipstick hole and I extracted about 10 qts out. Apparently I didn't check the oil as I should have.
2. I have run a bunch of Ring Free through on high levels with no change. And also made WOT runs for 45 min straight with no change.
3. My local shop did the compression and bleed down and said 95# in all 4 cyl and 35% bleed down
4. A different independent certified mech doesn't believe those numbers so we are going to retest this week and I will observe.
5. Special thanks to Dr. Bob for the rebuild comment and $. If this proves out I will go in that direction.
Benton
Click to expand...

Those numbers could very well not be accurate if this engine runs strong. Does it? Most engines I have seen with weak compression and leak down test results are not strong runners and produce clouds of smoke on hard acceleration. Does that describe yours? I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around getting 10 quarts of "oil" out. Wow, that is a lot of fluid in there! Where in the heck is it coming from? What do the spark plugs look like? It's possible you have a bad head gasket and a crack somewhere letting water in. Was this engine overheated?

Bob is right, it's probably easier and way cheaper to find a replacement powerhead. And I agree you could save some money by finding a "guy" that does that stuff on the side, but I have never had good luck with that and it's turned out bad for me. Maybe your luck is better. I hope you get to the bottom of it and it doesn't cost a fortune.
 
Benton
According to the Yamaha manual the engine holds 4.76 quarts of oil with a filter. 10 quarts wow! Did someone not drain the oil before filling it up or did you have 5 quarts of gas mixed in with the oil? There may be another explanation but I can’t think of one. Have you ever done an oil analysis? Running an engine that over full is certainly not healthy. I assume that you have the 4 cylinder F200.
Keep us informed of your progress.

Tom on the C-Otter
 
As follow up to the responses, there has never been any water in the engine. The oil was black and no brown look or cream look.
My first thought was on the 10 qt that the dealer serviced and someone filled it twice. That was wrong.
I have put marks on the dip stick at 1/4" spacing to see how much was going in. It tends to gain about 1/2" in 6-7 hrs running. So I have been changing the oil every 6-8 hrs.
I changed the spark plugs recently and the plugs looked just fine.
I feel the engine runs fine with no smoke or hesitation. No odd noises. I often see 3.2 mpg indicated.
Benton
 
Benton,
Not sure that I saw this comment, but is the engine running at the correct temperature? I have seen a few outboards running cold due to bad thermostats and they have all had excess blow-by.
 
Steve,
The thermostat was the first thing I checked and it had totally failed. I never noticed it running cold however. After replacing, the temp is dead center on the gage.
I just got the appt to run the compression and bleed down tomorrow afternoon.
We'll see if the first numbers are confirmed or not. 1st time they were compression 95# in 3 cyl and bleed down 35%
Benton
 
95 is pretty low as you are aware. I don't see how the low compression could cause the extra oil concern you are having. I can see how the bad thermostat would eventually. And maybe when they changed it they put a bit too much in as well. Pure speculation there though.

I am having a hard time believing that you'd have good power and not be blowing clouds of blue with that 95 number. You also have good looking plugs. Honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense. All of the engines I have worked on or owned having low compression fouled plugs, burn oil, leaked oil, and when worked hard, poured out a good amount of smoke. They also required pulling the plugs periodically as they would become fouled. I'll be curious what the new numbers are. I'd be very tempted to run the thing until it dies, which might take a really long time. I'd also maybe check the oil a bit more often :-)
 
Well here is a twist to my making oil issue. My new tech ran compression and bleed down with me present.
The reason my engine runs good is....I have a perfect engine. Compression 220# on 3 and 210 on the other. Leak down was 100% on all 4.
This tech has felt the computer could be the issue but wanted to find one on a running engine and swap it to see if the issue went away. He didn't want me to spend $1,100 if he could just borrow one. When he put his computer on my engine the rpm said 17,000 at idle and no water temp was showing. After 3 years of dealing with this I am ready to have the operation.
Hopefully the computer I bought will be in tomorrow and installed. We feel there isn't anything else to eliminate making oil.
I will update after running 6+ hrs. on the replacement computer.
Benton :smiled
 
If your Motor has a fuel pump which runs off a cam shaft, there is likely a seal/diaphram between the fuel pump and crankcase. This is a fairly common source of "making oil"--IF you have a fuel pump off something in the crankshaft.
 
Dr. Bob
Both the low and high pressure electric pumps are outside the engine. Also, if the VST float level is incorrectly set and it overflows, that goes up to the canister and then overboard through the lower cowell.
The tech has felt the computer is keeping one or more of the jets open. There is nothing on the engine that will allow raw gas into the crankcase.
Benton
 
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