Engine run problem

That-a-way:
I compromised so as not to over do my original thoughts. Plus my contact at auto store, a lady from an auto garage family background, who is more knowlegeable on general auto engines than anyone I have ever met. She said no more than 2-3 oz of Sea Foam/gal or I could start to damage seals, etc. So I put 2.5 oz into 1 gal, drained carbs, pumped mixture through carbs, closed drain plugs and filled carbs with mixture. After standing 1/2 hr I started engine and let it run @ 1/2 hr burning the 2 oz/1gal mixture. Then reconnected to boat's tanks and ran engine @ 1/2hr on clean fuel only. Had to reset Idle, it had increased 200-300 rpm. I think I have solved my problem.
 
Roy

Sorry about adding side bar stories to your message

Bob
In regards to fuel additives, a better approach would be knowing additional gasoline (blended, alcohol free, regional blends) information, then make an informed decision of using an additive.

Here is WIKI article on fuel detergents

The majority of the dozen or so fuel experts and auto mechanics publicly commenting on Top Tier gasoline recommend it. A 2007 USA Today article quoted three critics who say it has little or no benefit, but the same article quoted three endorsers of the new standard.[18] Tom Magliozzi, co-host of NPR's weekly radio show, Car Talk, said that using top tier detergent gasoline is only critical on high-end vehicles. For other vehicles, he and another source said periodic use of a concentrated engine cleaner is effective in removing carbon buildup. Magliozzi said use of such a cleaner every 100,000 miles will "often" clean out the deposits.

However, General Motors fuels engineer Andrew Buczynsky says the various engine-cleaning additives available at auto-parts stores should be used with caution. He said some work but most don't, and that care must be taken when using these additives because some may contaminate the catalytic converter. Also, if too much is used, the additive may cling to valve stems and cause them to hang open.[15]

Most mechanics agree that consistent use of a fuel with adequate cleaning ability is best. Magliozzi's co-host, Ray Magliozzi, said that in order to be sure of preventing buildup of fuel injectors and valves, motorists should use Top Tier gasoline "at least most of the time."[23][24] Several others agree: Mechanic Pam Oakes says Top Tier gas is effective in cleaning carbon from engines and is worth buying. She says she’s seen the difference it can make and recommends it to all of her customers.[25] Automotive service manager Willie Beyer advises his customers to either use a Top Tier gasoline regularly, or have a mechanic clean their fuel injectors of carbon build-up every 30,000 miles.[26] Westside Autos in Clive, Iowa, and Motor Age columnist Larry Hammer also recommend Top Tier for removing carbon build-up, adding that a cleaner engine will also burn fuel more cleanly and therefore produce less emissions.[27][28] Mechanic and automotive journalist Jim Kerr concurs: "All gasoline is not created equal . . . Top Tier does have benefits."[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_D ... t_Gasoline

Of the fuel additives product information that I have read, I find it difficult to make an informed and separate the hype from the facts except if you dont their product, you will problems.

It is the age old State of Fear tactic.

I used them,too but question their validity.

To me, a company with a good product would provide some test results across several different scenarios yet it seems lacking.

Where are the control groups? People who dont use fuel additives.
Do they problems and what types?

We need a fuel chemical engineer that's not me
 
Here is my take on gasoline. In our area all of the gasoline used to arrive in a single fuel barge to a depot. There were the 3 grades 87, 89 and 93. All of service stations in our area got there fuel out of the same tanks. The tanker truck would fill up the tanks from the large supply tanks, pull forward, and each of the 3 compartments would get that company's additives which were added to that tank compartment. The base gasoline was the same--just the additive was different for each "Brand". I don't have a clue as to the real difference between the additives. In my cars up until now, I have always just used the cheapest fuel from stations which had a high volume of gasoline sales. I have never had a fuel or engine problem (except vapor lock about 60 years ago, and one diesel where some mechanic had put a gasoline filter element instead of a diesel element)

Now my wife's new Audi is different-it calls specifically for 93 octane and that is what it will burn. I didn't see anything about "top Tier fuel" in the manual, and thus ran thru the various Audi forums on this subject. Apparently the US government specifies the minimum amount of additives. There are all varieties of premium gas used in these cars--and also a huge variety of additives--or none at all. Mentioned were...SeaFoam!..Lucas, Chevron, Shell, etc additives...We will have to follow this up on her car with the dealer head mechanic (who lives nearby and takes the Audi to Mobile for service for us). My GMC will continue to dine on whatever regular we get--usually USA travel plasa and Tom Thumb, which are the stations nearest to our home.

Now the boat. I have had fuel problems thru the years, and developed the routine I use today. --for the most part it is fueled with "Parade" pure gas, or what I can find at our local Marina, which I think is Valvotec. (I suspect the latter may be a "top Tier" fuel. I put the "stuff in" the boats because I want to avoid moisture and storage problems. For example we were gone for about 5 months this summer. when I got home, I fired up the Suzuki 140 on the Caracal--and it ran perfectly. Racor clear. So what I am doing seems to be working.

I would love to see very good scientific data on the various additives, but I fear they are sadly lacking. (I read all of the articles on Saltron I could find when I started using it--and it was hard to get then--had to be ordered from only one source in AZ) I was not convinced, but I seemed to have less fuel problems.
 
Roy,

Glad you got her running. Below is a link that shows what is in your carb. A diagram always helps.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/ ... _-_1999%29



You can order parts from this place if needed. Notice item 44 shows an internal screen. There are the tiny screens in the fuel lines. It has been a few years since I had mine apart. I could not find the screens in the diagram that lists all the fuel lines. They will be at one of the line connections. The screens come in the rebuild kits. But it sounds like yours are clear just sticky carbs.

I use Sea Foam to fog the engine for storage or starter spray to start and run a problem engine from the spray can. It is not a volatile as starting fluid such as either.

To clean sticky varnished carbs I use B-12 Chem tool. (Auto-zone, Wall-Mart) http://www.berrymanproducts.com/product ... y-cleaner/

The spray is good for cleaning carbs. It comes in pour cans to add to the fuel tank. This has a host of solvents including Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) This is very strong stuff. But safe when mixed per directions. Don't spill it on painted surfaces. Check out their website for more information and the MSDS.

On your floats. The needle valve is attached to the float. So if the needle sticks closed the float sticks in the up position. This could be caused by the needle itself sticking up in the body or the hinge pivot shaft that the float pivots on. If you don't remove carbs for cleaning you can try the B-12 spray and stick the plastic tip in the carb bowl drain hole. Raise the engine all the way up and tilt the motor to starboard. This will hold the fluid in there for a while to soak. Not a perfect solution but worth a try. Then tilt motor down to drain any debris out. I spray mist the motor with a water hose if I know I will be spilling a bit of fuel/cleaner. This will protect the paint. If you add the B-12 pour can to the fuel tank. Spend some time running the engine at idle this pulls the cleaner thru the tiny idle circuit. then run around as normal. BUT leave the carbs full of fuel over the next several days. You want all the internal parts to stay as wet as possible. If your boat is on the trailer at home. Just run the motor for about ten minutes each night for a week or so to get the parts soaking. Then burn that gas out and go back to Pure gas with Sta-Bil and Ring Free for the Yamaha.

B-12 info http://www.berrymanproducts.com/about/what-is-hest/

I spend most times cruising at 6 knots. When I pulled my carbs for cleaning you can look right into the back of the intake valves. My engine had 300 hours at the time. I was surprised to see a large amount of carbon build up on the valves. I started using Ring Free at that time.

When you engine starts to make a little SPIT, SPIT, pop, SPIT sound up to about 1800 RPM it is a sign that the idle circuit is plugging up. No additive will prevent ethanol problems. Only reduce them if you are lucky.
 
The needle valve is attached to the float. So if the needle sticks closed the float sticks in the up position. This could be caused by the needle itself sticking up in the body or the hinge pivot shaft that the float pivots on.

I should have realized this since I had 1 carb removed and the bowl detached. Your post gives a wealth of info and advice. I will be keeping all this, and all the others from everyone, to reference in the future. Thank you.
 
quote="C-WEED"] Below is a link that shows what is in your carb... [/quote]

Roy & Dixie":1scqk1ea said:
Your post gives a wealth of info and advice. I will be keeping all this, and all the others from everyone, to reference in the future. Thank you.
Click to expand...

As another F80 owner, I've been saving a lot of good info from this thread as well, for potential future reference. Thanks!

Sunbeam
 
I would love to see very good scientific data on the various additives, but I fear they are sadly lacking. (I read all of the articles on Saltron I could find when I started using it--and it was hard to get then--had to be ordered from only one source in AZ) I was not convinced, but I seemed to have less fuel problems

I agree

Thanks a million again, Bob
 
We are forced to use ethanol laced gasoline. All of our small engines have the fuel treated with blue marine stabil. That goes for the lawn tractor, two cycle leaf blower,two cycle small rototiller,large rototiller,dink motor,snow blower. Any gas that is for the above gets treated when it is purchased. No trouble after winter or summer layover. The boat gets Yamaha ring free everytime we fuel and if the gas has ethanol it gets the blue marine stabil. I think if you constantly run a motor and it does not sit around I would drop the marine Stabil. The Yamaha ring free I only use in the boat engine. But if you have money to burn the Yamaha Ring free would not hurt anything. Yamaha ring free is recomended by most everyone who knew anything about outboards either two stroke or 4 stroke. We have been putting in our outboards since 1997. I believe!
D.D.
 
The additives are some confusing. My Yamaha mechanic is against them all. What I do is try to avoid getting fuel at marinas early in the season it may have sat a loooong time. Like Dangling Rope on Powell. I try to find the cheapest, busiest looking fuel depot when I trailer in to a new place. High volume sales hopefully means fresh gas. I try to run the boat regularly also. If it needs to be stored I like a bit of Stabil and so far (knock wood) we're clear in the racor all the time. Like Bob points out, it's all the same basic liquid till the various companies hop it up their way. I'll have the Corona por favor. George
 
It is confusing to me b/c discussions revolve around product names instead of active ingredients
 
Brent,
No need for confusion. By Law, the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) is required to be made available to the user on just about any chemical product. This information sheet covers many details about the product. I.E Product name, trade name, color, odor, storage info, flash point, first aid, incompatibility with other products, hazardous info, ingredients if they aren't a trade secret and a host of other information. It is usually easiest to get this information online, as some product MSDS are several pages long.

Below is a link to the B-12 carb cleaner in a spray can. I would send the MSDS in a link but it is a PDF file and I don't think I can. Anyway open the link beside the can you will see MSDS. Click on that and you will see the very informative list about that product. Scroll down and you will see all the solvents that are used in that product. Don't know what that solvent is? You guessed it. Google that solvent, click on that MSDS and on and on... Thank the EPA for MSDS.

http://www.berrymanproducts.com/product ... y-cleaner/

Some cleaner products actually work and some are as somebody said is just a derivative of kerosene. So, if I could sell you a 12 once bottle of say Kerosene for $6 a bottle I would be verrryyy happy!. The B-12 used to be a bargain at $2 a can. The price has creeped up a bit but some of the other products out there are pretty pricy. I probably sound like a salesman, but just a satisfied user. Interesting, the pour in the tank B-12 additive is too strong for a plastic bottle in it's undiluted form. Always follow mixing instructions and sometimes more is not better.

I hope this helps.
 
Companies are not required to use conventional chemical nomenclature in MSDS

Each chemical has several different named
Easy to confuse a regular person

Plus they can use propriety names
I have not read every fuel additive MSDS but at work have read thousands plus authored some
 
Prime example: Star Tron MSDS: Proprietary Organic Compounds
< 0.5%
HAZARD CLASSIFICATION: Not applicable. RISK PHRASES: Not applicable.

Solvent Naphtha (Petroleum), Heavy Aliphatic
64742-96-7 265-200-4 > 95%

HAZARD CLASSIFICATION: Xn [Harmful] RISK PHRASES: R: 65

Which really tells us nothing about the product composition.
 
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