redbaronace
New member
A great reminder to be more careful in shallow waters.
Hope you get your boat back to operational soon.
Hope you get your boat back to operational soon.
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Fate Is The Hunter
- Thread starter C-Nile
- Start date
Jake":3s61y89p said:Rich,
Forgot to ask, how deep was the center of the channel and about how wide?
Approximately 450 feet wide and 12 feet deep.
AstoriaDave
New member
Looking at the better chartplotter displays, it is easy to see the placement of those old rock dikes. At low tide, I bet they are at least partially exposed, which would provide a running visual reference for the actual edge of the maintained channel. But, running at high tide, I bet the high water leaves you with naught but the channel markers for guidance, with an apparently wide expanse of open water.
I think running curvy, shallow channels in a very shallow bay is a nervewracking game. I have only done that once, between Indian Island and Marrowstone Island, up close to Port Townsend, and it just about drove me nuts!
C-Nile, thanks for the heads up. A good object lesson for the rest of us. Hope you are back on the water soon.
I think running curvy, shallow channels in a very shallow bay is a nervewracking game. I have only done that once, between Indian Island and Marrowstone Island, up close to Port Townsend, and it just about drove me nuts!
C-Nile, thanks for the heads up. A good object lesson for the rest of us. Hope you are back on the water soon.
Jake":2so2n2nu said:As with DuckDogTitus, if I see 10 feet I'm worried, at 7 feet I'm sweating and at 5 feet I'm dead still in the water deciding which way to turn for deeper water. And that's with no tides and virtually no rocks or tree stumps. Don't think I could get myself to do much exploring there in the NE area. And as for the charts, I never would have seen (still don't) the dike on the Raymarine.
Jake
In Galveston Bay, 10 ft is high tide, 8 ft is about normal, and my depth sounder alarm is usually set for 3 feet. And BTW, what's a rock? :?
Sorry to hear about the damage to your boat. A few lessons here. One is to study the route you are going to run before the voyage. Many of us boated for many years without chart plotters, and had to rely on paper charts and many instincts.
Second there are boat handling characteristics which occur when the boat enters shallow water--and you went into very shallow water to cause that damage to the keel. The wake begins to pile up and the boat begins to feel less responsive.
Always have two sets of eyes if in critical areas--and narrow channels are critical areas. Also never assume that the next buoy marks the channel. There may be obstructions between buoys.
Depth sounder--was it on, were you watching it--was an alarm set? That is another warning.
Situational awareness.
Good luck on getting the boat repaired and the engine fixed. I tend to agree that in this situation that you would have had both engines down--and suffered more damage if you had.
Second there are boat handling characteristics which occur when the boat enters shallow water--and you went into very shallow water to cause that damage to the keel. The wake begins to pile up and the boat begins to feel less responsive.
Always have two sets of eyes if in critical areas--and narrow channels are critical areas. Also never assume that the next buoy marks the channel. There may be obstructions between buoys.
Depth sounder--was it on, were you watching it--was an alarm set? That is another warning.
Situational awareness.
Good luck on getting the boat repaired and the engine fixed. I tend to agree that in this situation that you would have had both engines down--and suffered more damage if you had.
AstoriaDave":3bf4hqis said:Looking at the better chartplotter displays, it is easy to see the placement of those old rock dikes. At low tide, I bet they are at least partially exposed, which would provide a running visual reference for the actual edge of the maintained channel. But, running at high tide, I bet the high water leaves you with naught but the channel markers for guidance, with an apparently wide expanse of open water.
I think running curvy, shallow channels in a very shallow bay is a nervewracking game. I have only done that once, between Indian Island and Marrowstone Island, up close to Port Townsend, and it just about drove me nuts!
C-Nile, thanks for the heads up. A good object lesson for the rest of us. Hope you are back on the water soon.
Dave,
I went by the area on land yesterday at low tide, and those rocks were at least one foot above the water. You have it right on all counts.
Rich
thataway":3cv3pocl said:Sorry to hear about the damage to your boat. A few lessons here. One is to study the route you are going to run before the voyage. Many of us boated for many years without chart plotters, and had to rely on paper charts and many instincts.
Second there are boat handling characteristics which occur when the boat enters shallow water--and you went into very shallow water to cause that damage to the keel. The wake begins to pile up and the boat begins to feel less responsive.
Always have two sets of eyes if in critical areas--and narrow channels are critical areas. Also never assume that the next buoy marks the channel. There may be obstructions between buoys.
Depth sounder--was it on, were you watching it--was an alarm set? That is another warning.
Situational awareness.
Good luck on getting the boat repaired and the engine fixed. I tend to agree that in this situation that you would have had both engines down--and suffered more damage if you had.
Bob,
You are absoutely right about doing prework and not relying on the chart plotter. I know you have stated this before, and I should have heeded your advice.
The area I hit was a dike composed of rocks piled upon each other like a stone wall. So I went from relatively deep water of 7 feet to less then a foot instantly. What slowed the boat down was the skeg of my motor dragging across the rocks, bringing me to a stop quickly. Momentum carried me over the dike. I actually had the misfortune of hitting a higher area of the dike, because I found a deeper area to pass over using my kicker. Let me ask you: do you think that when my motor began hitting the rocks that it lifted the stern up, pushing the bow down, and that is what caused the abrasion on the rocks?
I wish I could tell you that I was not paying attention, bit I was, and that's what really concerns me. As I stated previously, this was not a question of gradually running into shallow water. It was deep water and then bang? I had been looking at the plotter, but I got up at a most inopportune time.
Situational awareness? -- You got that right. While the majority of blame for the accident rests soley on my shoulders, the Raymarine chart plotter's lack of warning information was a factor along with a series of random events that all contributed.
Rich
Final Update
Since most of you may never have made an insurance claim on a boat, I thought it would be worthwhile to share with you the process.
My insurance company is Progressive. I placed a phone call on Saturday directly to the company. On the following Monday, the claims adjuster made an appointment with my marina, Port Niantic, and on Wednesday, the claims adjuster spent a good part of his day, along with my marina's mechanic, to extensively inspect for damage.
The agent had the mechanic pull the propeller shaft so that he could ensure it was not bent. His equipment confirmed It was bent slightly, so he authorized it to be replaced along with the propeller and gear housing. He noticed one of the trim tabs was bent, and authorized that to be replaced. Regarding the hull, he did not think it was too big a deal. So my initial assessment was correct in that there were no major structural issues. It's mostly filling and gelcoat, but obviously, it requires a person of excellent skills to do a good job.
I can't overemphasize how important that keel (or chine?) running lengthwise from bow to stern saved my Marinaut from more serious damage. If the bottom had been flat, who knows what would have happened.
All told, the damage was approximately $5,300, and I have to pay a $375 deductible -- not bad for bone-headed boat driving on my part.
The agent said he would continually check in with the shop to ensure that the repairs are proceeding well, and if any undiagnosed issues related to the accident arise, he would address that, too.
Wow! -- Progressive is a great company to deal with. I used to deal with an insurance agency to handle my insurances, but have found that dealing directly with insurance companies is an excellent way to go, and not only am I pleased with their service, but also with the cost savings over going through insurance agencies. I'm sure that those of you who are independant insurance agents are cringing, but honestly, I don't see what an agency buys me. I'm actually thinking of going direct with auto and homeowners insurance next year.
Over the next 5 years, my boat will be replaced if there is a total loss at the full insured value as stated on my policy, to include all electronics. In the future, after the boat is 5 year's old, I'll need to negotiate with Progressive to insure my boat is on an agreed value. Most policies revert to cash value after the initial 5 year period for a new boat. This is a bad thing, and in the event of a loss, one may not get compensated for what the boat is truly worth. Agreed value is based on a mutually agreed upon value between the insured and the appraiser as to what the boat is actually worth. This may cost more money, but it offers a lot more protection. Those of you who are C-Dory owners know that your boats command a high resale value if well cared for, because C-Dory's are such well-built and seaworthy boats. So I would not assume that that you would be adequately compensated with a cash value policy. I'm sure other C-Brats members who have actually gone through this process as described are more well-versed on this subject than I am, so I defer to them.
Thanks
Rich
Since most of you may never have made an insurance claim on a boat, I thought it would be worthwhile to share with you the process.
My insurance company is Progressive. I placed a phone call on Saturday directly to the company. On the following Monday, the claims adjuster made an appointment with my marina, Port Niantic, and on Wednesday, the claims adjuster spent a good part of his day, along with my marina's mechanic, to extensively inspect for damage.
The agent had the mechanic pull the propeller shaft so that he could ensure it was not bent. His equipment confirmed It was bent slightly, so he authorized it to be replaced along with the propeller and gear housing. He noticed one of the trim tabs was bent, and authorized that to be replaced. Regarding the hull, he did not think it was too big a deal. So my initial assessment was correct in that there were no major structural issues. It's mostly filling and gelcoat, but obviously, it requires a person of excellent skills to do a good job.
I can't overemphasize how important that keel (or chine?) running lengthwise from bow to stern saved my Marinaut from more serious damage. If the bottom had been flat, who knows what would have happened.
All told, the damage was approximately $5,300, and I have to pay a $375 deductible -- not bad for bone-headed boat driving on my part.
The agent said he would continually check in with the shop to ensure that the repairs are proceeding well, and if any undiagnosed issues related to the accident arise, he would address that, too.
Wow! -- Progressive is a great company to deal with. I used to deal with an insurance agency to handle my insurances, but have found that dealing directly with insurance companies is an excellent way to go, and not only am I pleased with their service, but also with the cost savings over going through insurance agencies. I'm sure that those of you who are independant insurance agents are cringing, but honestly, I don't see what an agency buys me. I'm actually thinking of going direct with auto and homeowners insurance next year.
Over the next 5 years, my boat will be replaced if there is a total loss at the full insured value as stated on my policy, to include all electronics. In the future, after the boat is 5 year's old, I'll need to negotiate with Progressive to insure my boat is on an agreed value. Most policies revert to cash value after the initial 5 year period for a new boat. This is a bad thing, and in the event of a loss, one may not get compensated for what the boat is truly worth. Agreed value is based on a mutually agreed upon value between the insured and the appraiser as to what the boat is actually worth. This may cost more money, but it offers a lot more protection. Those of you who are C-Dory owners know that your boats command a high resale value if well cared for, because C-Dory's are such well-built and seaworthy boats. So I would not assume that that you would be adequately compensated with a cash value policy. I'm sure other C-Brats members who have actually gone through this process as described are more well-versed on this subject than I am, so I defer to them.
Thanks
Rich
Rich,
Good news from the insurance company! I also have progressive. A few years ago, I was at an idle and a 1 1/2" stick under the water was caught between counter rotating props on a Bravo 3 outdrive. I the stripped the gears in the lower unit. I took the boat to my mechanic--and he suggested that since there was debris in the water from Hurricane Ivan, that might be the cause. I was skeptical--but my experience with Progressive Insurance was the same as yours. The insurance covered the replacement of the entire lower unit.
One other thought about chart plotters--believe it or not many of the navigation charts say "not for Navigation". I run two chart plotters. One on large scale and one on small scale. I also double check with both paper chart and now days the I pad.
Good luck on getting the Keel and lower unit repaired. I am sure the boat will be as good as new.
Good news from the insurance company! I also have progressive. A few years ago, I was at an idle and a 1 1/2" stick under the water was caught between counter rotating props on a Bravo 3 outdrive. I the stripped the gears in the lower unit. I took the boat to my mechanic--and he suggested that since there was debris in the water from Hurricane Ivan, that might be the cause. I was skeptical--but my experience with Progressive Insurance was the same as yours. The insurance covered the replacement of the entire lower unit.
One other thought about chart plotters--believe it or not many of the navigation charts say "not for Navigation". I run two chart plotters. One on large scale and one on small scale. I also double check with both paper chart and now days the I pad.
Good luck on getting the Keel and lower unit repaired. I am sure the boat will be as good as new.