Fishing Boat Carrying NFL Players Reported Missing in Florid

Bob & Nancy (Ashley Lynn),

I just purchased the ACR TerraFix (same as the Aquafix). It has not arrived yet but it will be a definite value added with regard to boating safety and our peace of mind. I confirmed with ACR the Aerofix, Terrafix and Aquafix are all the same, its just a marketing scheme. I would highly recommend that you spend the extra money and get the models that have the onboard GPS. www.backcountry.com has them on sale for $399.99, a great deal. Most people like the SPOT. While it is relatively inexpensive to purchase ($150) there is a $50 annual fee and an insurance fee to cover your rescue. Although I purchased a SPOT I have unreliable coverage in Southeast Alaska and most importantly if you get into trouble SPOT "dispatchers" receieved the notification and notify the appropriate authorities, while the SARSAT 406 system is monitored by the Coast Guard and the Air Force Rescue Coordination Centers (Air Force for inland incidents) 24X7 and directly dispatch their resources. SPOT still is great for communicating with the I'm OK feature or need help and live tracking features. Hope this helps.
 
I have been a member of the United States Power Squadrons for over 50 years and have taught 100s of safe boating classes. I have a 6-pack USCG Captains license and a Z-Card. I have a vast amount of experience and I too can still get into trouble. The problem is someone with lots of money can buy a car/boat/airplane and without years of real experience get into real big trouble quick.

With the guys weight and all of the gear and gas/ice/fishing tackle they were probably carrying over 2000 lbs of weight. The water they were anchoring in was from 160 feet to 210 feet deep. There are many sources of weather reports, listen to them. If the day is going to be bad weather, fish in the bays and bayous. DO NOT go out into the Gulf of Mexico.

We teach to wear your life jackets. We teach to stay with the car/boat/airplane. They could of run a line thru each others life jacket and around the motor and stayed together. We teach tell someone where you are going and when you expect to be back. I have seen good use of SPOT to locate just where you are and that you are in trouble.

My heart goes out to their families, may GOD be with them. :(
 
March 3 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Coast Guard suspended at sunset its search for two National Football League players and a third man lost in the Gulf of Mexico after their boat capsized nearly three days ago.


At about 3 p.m. today, a life jacket and a cooler were found about 16 miles southeast of where the boat and Schuyler were located yesterday, Close said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... s&refer=us

Roger
 
Most medical sources state that the body loses heat 25 to 32 times faster in water than in air. A lot depends on multiple factors. These include dry skin vs wet skin; amount of clothing or other protection--if the clothing is wet or dry. There are also many personal physical and physiological factors--such as fat, circulation, muscle, shivering response, body surface area etc.

In this case, I have to assume that the person was constantly soaked with water spray--and there is also a wind chill factor.

As for anchoring depth--38 miles offshore is very close to the 20 fathom line--and this corresponds with several reports of anchoring in 120 feet. 160 to 210 feet is a very deep depth for a boat this size to carry enough rode to even anchor with a 3/1 scope. The report was that they were attempting to pull the anchor when the boat swamped and capsized. With the winds and seas, a rogue wave would not have been necessary. It might have happened even if the weight was not shifted forward to put the bow down more. Once there is water in the cockpit (center console--water then gets into the bilge, and even with foam filled bilge, the boat becomes unstable and capsizes. It does not take all that much water. Plus scuppers do not drain all that fast. Once the boat is over, it is almost impossible to right from in the water.

Those three who were separated from the boat, most likely were suffering from hypothermia, and lost their strength to hang on. If they all had been in the water, they might have died sooner, due to the more rapid onset of hypothermia. Many people who have hypothermia die from drowning before hypothermia. Even with a class I life jacket on, they begin to loose muscle tone, and eventually aspirate water. The class I life jacket is better for many reasons including better floatation, neck support, more likely to keep the face out of the water, and retroreflective tape.
 
damason":3al3km7z said:
We teach to wear your life jackets. We teach to stay with the car/boat/airplane. They could of run a line thru each others life jacket and around the motor and stayed together. We teach tell someone where you are going and when you expect to be back. I have seen good use of SPOT to locate just where you are and that you are in trouble.

My heart goes out to their families, may GOD be with them. :(
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. Better to be with a relatively large boat vs just a head floating in the ocean. May God have mercy on them and their families.
 
Dave Mason wrote that the water depth was at least 160'. Were they really anchored in that depth? If so, no wonder they rolled. I guess we'll learn about that shortly.

I think the deepest I've anchored is was 100', and that was in a protected bay, up in Alaska.

For a scope of 3, they would need to carry 450' of line, plus a big anchor.

Also, as far as losing heat in water vs air, I would think that the difference between 32 or 75 or 10 to 1 is only academic once you're in the water. You get cold in a hurry, and it's downhill from there.
 
You all know about the folks I pulled out two years ago. They were in the water for 45 min or so in January. One with and one with out a life jacket. I think that they made it only because they stayed with the boat. Tom ( the husband) told me that at one point he wanted to swim to shore but his wife would not leave the boat, she saved their lives. Never leave a floating boat not even a overturned one. I don't think these guy left the boat on purpose, but the guy that was out of the water the most lasted the longest, lesson to be learn in that fact. I just watched the boat on TV get turned back over at sea. neat trick of rope and forward motion.
 
Hypothermia in relatievely "warm" Gulf waters compared to more northern waters. I was shocked at how cold the Puget Sound remained even in shallow water in the dead of summer. But then where I'm from "cold water" is 75F.
 
starcrafttom":wbo0ch40 said:
I don't think these guy left the boat on purpose, but the guy that was out of the water the most lasted the longest, lesson to be learn in that fact.
Click to expand...

I agree Tom. A very valuable lesson to be learned. What a sad outcome, my heart goes out to their families. If somehow they could have all stayed with the boat, chances are they would have survived like the one young man did. But the conditions sounded horrible. I guess we'll never know. I didn't realize that the Gulf was so shallow so far out. I'm so used to the deep, deep waters of the Puget Sound and the straits.

For the first time, I'm seriously considering purchasing an ACR Personal Locator Beacons like the one mentioned above. What is the difference and what would be better, the ACR 406 I or ACR 406 I/O?
 
The ACR 406 I/O is much more preferable. This unit has an internal built in GPS, plus an interface with the ships GPS, via IR, and a cable.

The ACR 406 I has only an interface, not an onboard GPS. It has to be tethered to the ship's GPS just before deployment to give a fairly accurate GPS location. Plus it will not track any drift after leaving the boat.

The I/O will be a good stand alone for hiking and Kayaking. We have two of the 406 I/O units.


On another subject, if you watched the boat "being righted" you would see how unstable the boat was even half filled with water. I had not realized that this boat had a "T" top on it. This contributed to the lack of stability. We have seen boats with a T top capsize even in calm water with a heavy wind gust. Getting the boat back upright even in very shoal water was very difficult. Also there seemed to be several life jackets in the boat and maybe another cooler. There are cases where coolers have been used for flotation

Confusion and delusion are both very common with hypothermia and sleep deprivation.
 
After reading that newest article I remembered what I learned in search and rescue training a few different times in the corp. We all got more training in this area after loosing a guy in 29 palms in 90' and one in Virginia in 89'. When people get to hot or to cold they do the same thing. They strip. does not matter if its 104 or -20 in the end most of them strip. I don't want to say that there is a good way to go but fishing and delusional is better then many other. Good thing about being crazy is you are the last to notice. They must be out of their minds by that point. I do think that buying a erip or some other type of transmitter is in my future. I feel for the families as its hardest on them.
 
Sad. I've fished that area quite a bit --4 years -- and anchoring over a reef is a normal, routine thing. All indications from the media -- these guys knew the area and were regular fishermen. Remaining on anchor with seas (reported) up to 7 feet is not wise in any small boat -- and an open-bow center console is surely not the way to go in heavy seas. When fishing out of Tampa, we always went with a buddy boat. No buddy, no go.

Hindsight is wondeful -- but leaving the anchor and heading home may have averted a terrible tragedy. And trying to swim any distance in that kiind of water is unwise.

As Tom pointed out, it is routine here in the Pac NW to anchor over a halibut hole -- I do very often at Coyote and Constance Banks -- and boats often get in trouble. IMO our weather here is more predictable than the Gulf, where the long fetch and shallow water can build FAST and with little warning.

Terrible tragedy, and hopefully we can all learn from their experience. All big, strong guys -- life jackets aboard (but apparently not on), and even though inverted, they had a boat for the great CG guys to find.

:( :( :cry
Dusty
 
Dr. Bob and others-

I value your opinions and experience.

I found the ACR 406 I/O plb at Backcountry.com for $399.99. It can transmit for 24 hours. A little online research shows that this unit has to be sent off for battery replacement every 5 years. Any idea how much this costs?

I also found a FastFind Max-G PLB by McMurdo at Defender (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1054868) for $530. It has USER replaceable battery/s. It can transmit for 48 hours and has a little strobe light incorporated into the kit. It's smaller and slightly lighter (9 vs 12 oz).

So...it appears the ACR is cheaper initially; battery replacement cost...I don't know what to figure for that. Is McMurdo Fastfind unit worth consideration too?

Thanks,

/david
 
Dr. Bob,

Thanks for your usual clear and concise information re the ACR's. Like Tom, that item amongst other safety items, is on my shopping list.

Peter
 
SGIDave":f4ldoy39 said:
Dr. Bob and others-

I value your opinions and experience.

I found the ACR 406 I/O plb at Backcountry.com for $399.99. It can transmit for 24 hours. A little online research shows that this unit has to be sent off for battery replacement every 5 years. Any idea how much this costs?

I also found a FastFind Max-G PLB by McMurdo at Defender (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1054868) for $530. It has USER replaceable battery/s. It can transmit for 48 hours and has a little strobe light incorporated into the kit. It's smaller and slightly lighter (9 vs 12 oz).

So...it appears the ACR is cheaper initially; battery replacement cost...I don't know what to figure for that. Is McMurdo Fastfind unit worth consideration too?

Thanks,

/david
Click to expand...

Found this on the Backcountry web page

Replace the battery after 5 years or if you use it in an emergency. You can find a battery replacement center at ACR's website, link is below. I called my local center and the rep I spoke with informed me that the PLB battery would cost an estimated $150.00 - $200.00, but ACR would replace the battery for free should you use the PLB in an emergency situation, were rescued and allowed ACR to publish your story.

Roger
 
There is an outfit called BOE which sells the Revere Fastfind by McMundo for $299. (this is the 24 hour model and I don't know about the battery replacement for this unit). I have never used one, but from the tests I have read, this seems to be as good as the ACR. I have heard rumors that ACR is going to bring out a similar priced model.

The usual published cost for the ACR battery is $210. The 5 year is the recommended interval--these are really 10 year rated batteries...so you may fudge slightly. Your choice

I also picked up another thought from a Coast Guard pilot who flew some of the search missions on this rescue posting on THT. His statement:
just want to chime in here about the SPOT. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, any SAR controllers on the board please chime in, the spot provides satellite communications via a private satellite network and does not transmit a 406 or 121.5 beacon. USCG aircraft can home in on the 121.5 or 243 mhz distress beacon signal from a 406 epirb. Our new aircraft and updated older aircraft can now home in on a 406 signal as well. I do not believe that the SPOT device transmits on any of these signals, so we can not home in on it. I am not saying it is a bad product, it looks like an excellent way to track progress privately, I am sure that in an emergency it would be able to provide more information then not having anything. But it is not a replacement for a 406 EPIRB. PLEASE, save up if you can't afford one, I bought a 406 GPIRB (GPS enabled) reconditioned for $500 for my wife and my Parker 2320. I will not personally go even a few miles offshore with out one. Again, if there are any SAR controllers here on the board, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong about the SPOT device.

This seems to confirm that the SPOT remains a great tool for tracking a trip or letting the folks at home know that you are OK, but does not take the place of an EPIRB in a real life and death emergency because the rescue people cannot home on a beacon.
 
thataway":3lgxxph1 said:
There is an outfit called BOE which sells the Revere Fastfind by McMundo for $299. (this is the 24 hour model and I don't know about the battery replacement for this unit). I have never used one, but from the tests I have read, this seems to be as good as the ACR. I have heard rumors that ACR is going to bring out a similar priced model.

The usual published cost for the ACR battery is $210. The 5 year is the recommended interval--these are really 10 year rated batteries...so you may fudge slightly. Your choice

I also picked up another thought from a Coast Guard pilot who flew some of the search missions on this rescue posting on THT. His statement:
just want to chime in here about the SPOT. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, any SAR controllers on the board please chime in, the spot provides satellite communications via a private satellite network and does not transmit a 406 or 121.5 beacon. USCG aircraft can home in on the 121.5 or 243 mhz distress beacon signal from a 406 epirb. Our new aircraft and updated older aircraft can now home in on a 406 signal as well. I do not believe that the SPOT device transmits on any of these signals, so we can not home in on it. I am not saying it is a bad product, it looks like an excellent way to track progress privately, I am sure that in an emergency it would be able to provide more information then not having anything. But it is not a replacement for a 406 EPIRB. PLEASE, save up if you can't afford one, I bought a 406 GPIRB (GPS enabled) reconditioned for $500 for my wife and my Parker 2320. I will not personally go even a few miles offshore with out one. Again, if there are any SAR controllers here on the board, please chime in and correct me if I am wrong about the SPOT device.

This seems to confirm that the SPOT remains a great tool for tracking a trip or letting the folks at home know that you are OK, but does not take the place of an EPIRB in a real life and death emergency because the rescue people cannot home on a beacon.
Click to expand...

He is 100% correct the SPOT does NOT provide either 121 or 406.

My new "toy" will be here tomorrow. When it gets here I'll post about it.

Roger
 
Just rogering up...again the SPOT does not transmit on 406 or 121.5. Additionally with the spotty coverage (no pun intended) up here in South East Alaska, there is no real certainty with the SPOT satellite systems where the ones that monitor the 406 net are owned and operated by NOAA or other international partners.

The 24 hours on the PLB is a absolute minimal transmission standard in very cold conditions as shown in the table below from ACR website. The warmer the weather the longer the transmission time.

Typical Performance:

36 hours @ -20°C (-4°F)
20 hours @ -40°C (-40°F)

Byron
 
I looked at the McMurdo Fastfind 210 unit online at Defender ($283). Is this the one you are referrng to Bob? It has an incorporated GPS and can transmit for 24 hours. Its battery is NOT user replaceable. It is water resistant to IPX7 standards, HOWEVER, it DOES NOT FLOAT. You can call me paranoid, but I don't want my life line to sink from my cold, shaking, stiff hands as I'm trying to activate it. Whichever unit I get MUST FLOAT. THe Fastfind 210 would be great for land based activities.

/david
 
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