Fishtales Decommissioning

SEA3PO":1heekvl7 said:
What it boils down to is.....Roger has been without his boat since October and been making payments on it.....paying insurance and storage, yet not been able to use it.... and now will be LUCKY to have it by May....
Joel
SEA3PO

He's making payments? Uh oh, what's the lender gonna say when they find out that loan they made in good faith is guaranteed by a stripped unuseable boat and a verbal promise?

Hey Roger, is that your rudder hangin in the breeze?

Brrrr

Thinking about it further, if I flew all the way up to Seattle from SoCal to sign papers - even if it was to attend SBS and the C-Dory party as well and got that "too busy" crap, I'd be contacting my attorney or the media about now. It isn't the same as putting a local owner off a week to sign something - it means pain in the butt overnight mail and more delays. Wow, I'm surprised. Horror stories rarely surface about C-Dory. I hope to hell this isn't a harbinger of the future 'cause I'm still thinkin 3 more feet.

Don
 
When I bought my C-Dory, title to the boat, motor, trailer, and all attached equipment was held by the finance company.

They would not allow me to own the trailer outright because they might have to repossess the boat and my title to the trailer would prevent them from towing it away.

Due to the above, I anyone adds installed equipment to their boat, title to that equipment effectively transfers to the finance company.
 
if i understand this correct, and that may be a big leap of faith, the lienholder holds title to your current boat, which c-dory will take in trade for the new boat. i'm sure c-dory is not providing you with a new engine, or engines and/or trailer. therefore, the lienholder will surrender your current title in favor of your new boat title. doesn't sound like a complicated transaction. you may or may not have to re-sign, but short of that, can't foresee any problems.
what really GETS ME YELLING IS: the boat manufactures still can't get it right. how complicated can it be to produce a simple product that will hold up, for the use it is designed for! it's just a hull!
oh well.
good luck.
pat
ps: capt. mattie my boy, do you have the towing endorsement, and if so, what was the class like? i'll be taking the class feb 18.
 
Recieved written confirmation today that I will have the replacement boat, here in SoCal, in 9 weeks.
While this has taken far to long to get this far, I will feel a whole lot better when I am back on the water.
I am keeping records just in case.

Roger
 
Copied from another thread so I could keep all information here----


I was told by Scot and Ricardo, at the Factory Party, that my boat would be here in 9 weeks. That would put the date as March 29. We gave them a few more days to make it April 1---- that was my mistake---- April Fools day
Once again they have failed to meet a delivery date.
When I bought Fishtales I was told the boat would be here at the end of February, 2001- then it was in April--- did not get the boat until Memorial Day, 2001--- 3 months later then I was told when I ordered the boat.

Some things never change-

Roger

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Dora~Jean
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject:


So what's there 'new estimate' of delivery? Hope it doesn't impact the Delta trip...
_________________
Steve

"Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance" (Samuel Johnson)

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C-Hawk


Once again, the factory reputation holds true to the past
Late February Ricardo told me that the boat was out of the mold and in rigging, mid March I was told the boat was complete and in final inspection.
Today I am told that the boat will not be ready until the end of April
WTF is up with these pricks that they can't seem to keep their word
My warranty says that it will be repaired or replaced within 45 days--- hell-- it's been seven f~#*ing months.



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journey on


Roger, that boat, if it exists, is sitting at the back of the shop, worked on when they don't have anything better to do. Once got a Ford transmission replaced under warranty, and waited for a loooong time. Found out later, if a mechanic didn't have anything else to do, they had him work on that thing.

Good luck and make a thorough inspection.

Boris

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Jim Gibson


Roger, sorry about your boat schedule. That is an awful and nerve wracking situation.

I was really starting to work on your christening ceremony. Champaign, prayers, the cannon, food, fireworks, the whole bit. I guess I might have to wait for Catalina for the ceremony.

Best of luck,

Jim
_________________
Jim on M/V Pounder
And the C-Tales Continue

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Sneaks


Good lord, Roger, this is turning into a friggin soap opera. I certainly hope the only dog you get is the one you have right now! It's been proven time and again that the squeaky wheel gets attention, never more so than when dealing with that bunch. Good luck.

What makes it even more difficult is that the factory can be generous (logos, gathering, free parts) and very helpful or it can be unresponsive, glacially slow, and careless to a fault. Consistently inconsistent. Can a factory have PMS?

7 months worth of paying down an empty trailer. Gak. Not a time to tease you for sure....

Don

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Christopher-Robyn

Roger:
I was at the factory with my wife last Friday (4 April) for a tour. If I would have known, I could have asked to see your boat on the floor. They had 5 or 6 C-Dorys in various stages of build. Not sure how many were 22's. Sorry!
Paul K

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Capital Sea


Regarding squeaky wheels getting grease. I could not agree more. You need to put an amp on that noise. We Cbrats are just looking for a cause. All you have to do is ask.
_________________
Capn Steve & 1st Mate Kath

Save our Sound!

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Sealife

Roger,

If this is the Ricardo that we dealt with way back when we were trying to set up Cy at Stanton Marine with a dealership, count your fingers if he shakes your hand. His reputation is slightly tarnished.

My advice to you is this: pin them down to a date, and tell them you are driving up to pick up the boat. Otherwise, you will be waiting forever after it's finished, for them to ship it south. That's why I finally lost patience and picked my boat up myself.

Boy, I really feel for you, man.
_________________
Mike - Sealife

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SEA3PO


Mike...He did just that....the agreed date was April 1.....absolutely...they promised that would be the very latest.. when we were up at the SBS in January they signed a contract... and said the boat would be done way before that date.....

Silly Roger ....He believed them ..

Joel
SEA3PO
 
If anyone happens by the factory---
My boat should be the light grey 22 with the Honda 90 EFI.
It will be the one with the old style wood cabinets.
No stainless handrails, cushons or pilot seat- I will be transferring the ones over from Fishtales.

Thanks,
Roger
 
Silly Roger.... He really thinks he is getting a boat... "any day now"...
Guess there's one born ever minute or so...

Were I in his shoes .....I might be a bit upset... and involve the gentleman of the court....I know the factory understands that language...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, have never met Roger in person, and have no information as to the details of the negotiations between Roger and the factory. Having said that, as a former business person, when a customer had a legitimate complaint, we would bend over backwards to make the situation right... if that meant I had to work all night, weekends, or holidays to meet a deadline, then that's what we did. I don't understand how anyone in business could do otherwise and be able to live with themselves.

There is a pervasive attitude in business today of trying to shift or deflect blame... no one is willing to step up to the plate and accept responsibility for getting the job done. And when did "DEADLINES" become mere suggestions??? :amgry

In our business, we had the reputation as the "go to guys" - clients knew that we would do what we said we would. Imagine that - we quickly rose to the top of our industry by NOT lying to clients. We knew what it took to produce our product... and in the unlikely event of an equipment breakdown or a vendor failing to deliver when promised (and we always figured these potentials into our deadlines), we would call the client to let them know BEFORE the deadline... and let them know what we were doing to complete the project in a timely manner.

The major problem I have had in my dealings with C-Dory is the fact that they will say what they think you want to hear and then NOT LIVE UP TO THOSE PROMISES... and then make NO EFFORT to keep you informed of why and how the situation is being handled. It is that complete lack of communication and seeming indifference that absolutely infuriates me (and obviously, others).

They don't respond to inquiries. They don't return phone calls. They don't respond to e-mail. I fully understand that their dealers are their "customers", but this indifferent attitude to THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THEIR PRODUCT is unthinkable to me. Long before the downturn in the economy (and this industry in particular), C-Dory had already established this attitude and it was company-wide.

When we bought our boat, the company WAS our dealer, making me their direct customer. Over the years, we have bought a lot of boats, cars, homes, RVs, motorcycles, airplanes - my dealings with the factory were the least satisfactory buying experience of any of the above big-ticket items. Please don't misunderstand this - they make a great boat, but they suck at customer service. Had I known this at the time, I would have absolutely INSISTED on a dealer (like Les or Wefings) who understands that the customer is the reason for their business, not an inconvenient part of the process.

As the boating industry has taken a hit in our current economic trials, C-Dory has tried a lot of things to stay afloat: streamlining production, new products, laying off workers. I am amazed that they never considered TAKING GOOD CARE OF CUSTOMERS AND POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS??? They need every possible buyer they can find, yet they ignore e-mails and phone calls??? :amgry They could be creating enormous goodwill by simply responding, yet they CHOOSE not to. (Yes, not responding IS a choice.) If this company tanks, it won't be because they they don't build a good product - it will be because of the top-down attitude of indifference. That indifference that has led to so many minor production problems (like rub rail leaks, the drain tube in the anchor locker not properly installed, no sealant used when drilling into the hull)... these things went on FOR YEARS! How costly is this attitude??? :amgry

To bring this back to Roger's situation... there had to have been a serious problem with the original boat for the factory to make him another boat. The factory has compounded the problem by NOT LIVING UP TO THEIR PROMISES. They could have turned a problem into a customer satisfaction success story - for some reason, they CHOOSE not to. VERY BAD BUSINESS DECISION.

It doesn't matter if the problem is replacing a boat, getting a name decal out, or reimbursing warranty payment (the last problem I had with the factory... that ran on and on and on). The correct way to handle any of these problems is: RESPOND AND FOLLOW UP. Yet, they choose to ignore and put off. You can build another boat... you can replace a broken part... there is no "fixing" a broken promise or a missed deadline. Once you have stepped on a customer's trust, you have created bad feelings that will take even more time and effort (and at what cost???) to repair.

C-Dory seems to think they are building boats. That's only partially true... they are building dreams, hopes, and expectations. Every business transaction requires a PERSON to make that buying decision. No one here buys these boats because they have been built - they have dreams of how they will use the boat; they have expectations that the manufacturer will take care of them so they can spend their time using the boat, not dealing with frustrations that the factory has created. We all know that any manufactured product has the potential for problems. How a manufacturer CARES FOR THEIR CUSTOMER is just as important as the product... because in the long run, if you have run off buyers, it doesn't matter how you build the boat or how many you build... no customer care = no customers. It seems so easy (to me, at least) to understand that you HAVE to take care of every customer to continue to build a customer base... how can any person within a business make a promise to a customer and then feel good about themselves and their business if they don't live up to that promise? This seems so fundamental, yet so many failed businesses don't get it.

Roger, I hope C-Dory comes to their senses and understands the frustrations caused you and the huge ILL WILL they have created - and does whatever necessary to satisfy you.

I know how to fix a broken boat... how do you fix a broken dream?

Sincerely,
Jim Bathurst
 
Jim,

Very well said. Your business philosophy reminds me of my dad who owned a general store here in the mountains of western NC, in a town of about 400 people and in a county of only 15,000. This buisness was way before the day of the "big box" department stores and major supermarkets. My dad sold groceries, meats, men's shoes and suits, toiletries and some hardware.

When I was a kid I helped out there on Saturdays and during the summers. One of my jobs was to ride my bike to a competitor's store to quickly purchase a product that my dad was out of stock on. This for a customer who asked for the product. Often the product cost more at the competitor's business but my dad sold it to his customer for his price, thus taking a loss.

He would open the business at any time of the night and on Sunday for a customer who called saying he needed something immediately (even if it was only a six pack of Pepsi). I guess I didn't totally appreciate the value of this philosophy until I opened my own small business after serving a 25 year tour with the government. Looking back, however, I think that philosophy that I inherited also helped a lot during my government service. The government is certainly deficient in this area even more so that most private sector enterprizes.

Harper
 
Jim-

Extremely well thought out and written commentary!

Your post should be duplicated and circulated throughout the C-Dory company for all the decision makers and customer service people to guide in the restoration of their company image.

Some C-Brats choose to think such concerns with customer service and quality control issues should not be expressed on this site, but otherwise how is the message so obvious to most all of the rest of us to get through?

I used to think it would be a challenging but manageable task for someone to take on spearheading a customer service and image makeover with the company, but now I'm wondering just how likely a person would be to be sucked down in the vacuum of existing customer satisfaction?

I hope they wake up and get it right soon!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Still no boat.
I talked with Scot a couple times last week and he promised me he would have pictures of the boat Monday- no pics. Then he denied saying the pics would be here Monday and claimed to have said I would have the pics this week--- here it is Friday and, just like the boat, no pics.
I'm beginning to wonder- when did they actually start production of my boat? Of course- you can't get a straight answer from these people.
 
C-Hawk":g50jkfed said:
Still no boat.
I talked with Scot a couple times last week and he promised me he would have pictures of the boat Monday- no pics. Then he denied saying the pics would be here Monday and claimed to have said I would have the pics this week--- here it is Friday and, just like the boat, no pics.
I'm beginning to wonder- when did they actually start production of my boat? Of course- you can't get a straight answer from these people.

Very sorry to hear about this my friend. I dealt with the same sort of nonsense with my dealer over the last two months. I will save that nightmare for another thread.

This sort of thing never ceases to amaze me in business. I don't have first hand knowledge of your situation but I dare say the entire C-Brat community is watching closely (current and prospective owners).

I hope you get a well made boat soon.
 
I was in Auburn a few days ago and drove by the factory, hoping to see your boat parked outside. Unfortunately it wasn't on either side of the building or in the front. I don't know if there is a lot out back, as I didn't have access to the rear of the building. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
 
What a sad situation this has degenerated to. I am really sorry to hear this.
Best of luck in getting your boat situation resolved. Hopefully the company will come to their senses and return to what it was with the Tolands.
 
Roger
I was so hoping you would be with us in San Fran. I was looking forward to seeing you again and enjoying some time. I noticed that there is over 3000 viewers of this thread. This situation can only be considered bad for C-Dory. You have been one of the greatest supporters.
I can only hope things work out very soon.
 
Maybe it's time for a little more action. I just sent the following PM and E-Mail to FaC-Dory Guy:

We are all watching closely the replacement of the boat called Fishtales. If the old owner is correct, many promises have been made to him by C-Dory, very few of which have been kept. I highly recommend a response to that thread from the factory, presenting your position and your proposed solution.

We have over 3000 members now, most of whom have C-Dorys and many of whom will buy new boats in the next couple of years. It is difficult to see how this situation can be ignored by the factory. There are many more than that that read these posts carefully and look for reasons to buy (or not) buy a C-Dory.

Charlie Vinroot
Captain's Cat


This method seems to work with our legislature, why not with C-Dory. Feel free to copy/use any or all of the above in your efforts to assist Roger if you choose to do so. I'm not sure what their original responsibility was but since they have made promises to do certain things, it's now up to them to carry through and "make it right".

Charlie
 
Captains Cat":1fmk1mcf said:
Maybe it's time for a little more action. I just sent the following PM and E-Mail to FaC-Dory Guy: <snip>
Charlie

Charlie, sending anything to FaC-Dory Guy is like sending to a black hole. The only way I ever got an answer from the factory within a few days was to send a single email to the following addresses via CC, with copies of all my previous black hole submissions.

They have the Brats as a link on their home page. They really need to be more responsive....

Rich Reynolds; madisonbayllc1@aol.com
Scot Reynolds; ScotReynolds@c-dory.com
warranty@c-dory.com
Customerservice@c-dory.com

Handled correctly, Roger's plight could have been turned into an advertising/marketing event gaining a lot of positive for the factory. "Hey, Fishtales was built on a Friday afternoon before Superbowl weekend and we screwed up. Here's how well we back up our warranty." Pictures, media event, etc. Make some positive advertising from an admittedly terrible event. Worse, had he hit a big wave head on while heading toward Catalina...! Could have been a fatality directly attributed to the builder.

Instead, someone chose to stonewall. Poor choice, AFAIC.

Don
 
Sneaks":1g7t3v0e said:
Instead, someone chose to stonewall. Poor choice, AFAIC.
Don

After over 30 minutes of thought (beyond the edit limit) it looks to me that I made an assumption: A number of scenarios can be viewed as "stonewalling" so in fairness to the factory, I should have said "From all appearances, it looks suspiciously like stonewalling." If so, or even if it's something as simple as procrastination, it puts the factory in "reactive" mode whereas a proactive mode would better serve them. Especially now that informed buyers use the internet for product research far more often than in the past.

Don
 
I do hope the factory is listening.

I will be buying a boat in the next 12-24 months.

The factory is blowing it, they just keep digging it deeper and deeper, warranty service is a huge issue.

a used boat appears more likely, due to quality/service.

How these things are handled in the next year will determine my choice.

Scot, it's up to you guys. I won't risk having paid cash for a boat to not have one for several months, and empty promises at that.

Forwarded to Scot
 
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