FLIR First Mate MS 224 review

T

thataway

Active member
FLIR=forward-looking infra-red.

http://www.flir.com/cs/emea/en/view/?id=50281

I have lusted after an Infra Red or thermal scope for some time --but only recently has the price come down to semi affordable (about the same cost as a radar).

FLIR has been both innovative and cost conscious in the most recent products. The First Mate series has two models: I got the MS 224, which has the lower resolution (240 x 180) and only freeze frame. The more expensive MS 324 has a higher resolution (320 x 240) and a 2 x electronic magnification, but no freeze frame. Although the literature references a NTSC output at 9 hz rate, there does not seem to be a video output.

There is a USB charger, (and that could have an output)--as well as 4 contacts on the bottom near a tripod socket. The Li Ion battery is said to last 5 hours. There is a 5 minute auto shut off.
My first subject was our miniature poodle--what was interesting was that her foot prints showed up both on the carpet and grass. If you put a hand against the wall, it will leave a thermal image on the wall board for some time.

Out on the bayou, all of the trees and banks showed up well, as well as docks, and limbs in the water. What took me aback at first was a very hot target in the forest behind out house--I had to get a strong search light and the binoculars to identify the raccoon climbing a tree.
The disadvantage is that FLIR is blocked by normal window glass. I have not tried it in the C Dory, but suspect that the results will be the same as the double pane windows of our home. This means that you have to have the forward window open to use the scope thru, or hang out the side.

Of course if you want to spend $5,000 you can get a fixed mount camera which will display on one of your video screens on the "glass bridge". These cameras use the same sensors as the First Mate series. Hopefully we wind find that there will be some upgrade to the MS 224 which will allow video output to a simple screen--and a tripod mount could be used on a railing or cabin roof. Then we could run with the windows closed.

For our application, mostly running in the bay waters at night, where there are crab pots, debris etc, this makes more sense as Radar--but in many other applications--radar makes a lot more sense, especially if you are in fog, or on waters where there are rapidly approaching boats from many directions. Ideally both radar and the FLIR would be the way to go.
 
Interesting review Bob. I have been lusting after a FLIR for some time, too. Please post an update on whether it will work through the Diamond Sea Glaze glass; I agree with you, it probably won't. Nine Hz would be a little slow on the update for video, but I can't think of why there would be a nine Hz NTSC output for any other reason. I would really like a slewable, zoomable FLIR camera, but the price is going to have to come down some before I can rationalize the purchase.
 
Jim,
I am afraid that the camera you want is still going to cost close to $10,000--that is why I am willing to open a window, and stick an eye piece up to my face!

I can think of thousands of times I could have used this in the past--coming into ink black anchorages, or in areas where we could not see the banks etc without blinding ourselves and others with a search light...
 
Jim,
Yes, 9 hz is a very low refresh rate. But, if related to other I R cameras is within reason and may be why the price is lower.

I need to explain my comment about fog; IR will "see" to some degree thru fog & smoke, but not at a long distance. For example our conversation about Radar range, where for Tom going slow & fishing IR might have enough range at several hundred yards. I'll have to experiment, with local fog & resolution to see how good this unit is.

On another note, with some juggling the FLIR fits in the Pelican case with the stabilized binoculars. This means grabbing only one case, plus ditch bag when getting aboard. This combo would be a good supplement to the "bug out bag" also.
 
Hi Bob,

I bought the FLIR handheld last year and tried it for lobster netting. Because I had such a hard time seeing the lobster trap and net buoys when it was really dark, I figured the FLIR would really be a help.

Alas, one of the problems with net and trap buoys is that they are in the water and soon get close to the temperature of the water. I found a simple generation 1 night scope was more valuable in seeing the buoys at night. However, outside the harbors in Southern California during lobster season, hoop netting kayakers are all over the place and very hard to see. Many of them are not adequately lighted and boating around/through them is very dangerous. For this purpose, the FLIR is outstanding.

The video connection on the Model 224 can be plugged into your gps/chartplotter although the resolution and picture size are not very good.
I found that a small SONY dvd player had a video input that gave a much better picture AND you can also have your chart for navigation.

I set the FLIR up right behind the center window on a suction cup mount AND no, the FLIR will not go through glass. It will react to the temperature of the glass. You must have the center window open or mount the FLIR handheld outside. The whole concept of seeing temperature is very different and I experimented with many of its uses.

Animals or intruders in your yard will light up like a Christmas tree! If you sit in your easy chair and view through the FLIR during the winter when your heat vents are blowing hot air, you can really tell where there are cold air leaks, heat vent leaks and can even see whether or not your insulation is adequate behind your walls. My heating contractor really enjoyed playing with the unit.

One of the boats (Blue Eagle) on the Delta Cruise last year had a FLIR installed on the roof. David and Donald (his Dad) used it to navigate up the Sacramento River from San Francisco to Rio Vista at 2:00 at night! Being on a permanent mount and giving a much larger and sharper picture, I would love to have that model, but I'm going to wait for the prices to come down.

I would have kept my FLIR if I lived on or near the water. As it was, I just didn't use it enough and sold it on E-bay.

Enjoy your new toy!

Kent McClish
MARCIA JANE
 
thataway":1le2jqcy said:
My first subject was our miniature poodle--what was interesting was that her foot prints showed up both on the carpet and grass. If you put a hand against the wall, it will leave a thermal image on the wall board for some time.
Click to expand...

Many fire departments now equip their engine companies with a TIC (Thermal Imaging Camera). (Same concept). They can be utilized at motor vehicle accident scenes, if no occupants are found upon arrival, or if it is suspected that more individuals were in the vehicle. Just aim the TIC at the seats in the vehicle and view the hot spots. (Obviously, this has to occur soon after the seats have been vacated). Additionally, if an individual is ejected from the vehicle or hiding in the brush the TIC can be utilized to detect their presence. (FYI...obviously, not uncommon for DUI drivers or "bad guys" to attempt to escape capture after a collision).
On fire scenes the TIC is utilized to locate hidden fires/hot spots in the structure or to locate victims.

A year ago, I was out on a CGAUX patrol on a vessel that was equipped with FLIR that was mounted on the cabin roof. The owner was able to remotely operate it to scan the area and had the imagine projected on a large screen in the cabin. Quite interesting to be able to view the "hot" engine rooms of ships that you cruised past.
 
Kent,
Good point about the temp of the water, and I did go out later at night to see how things changed as the various non living items cooled off. Tonight it will be near freezing (an occasional December occurrence in Pensacola) and it will be interesting to see what the difference is.

This model just came out this year--and sales have only been for a few weeks. It is smaller than the previous model--but no obvious video output as the previous H M series--which you must have had.

I was able to "chat" with tech support at FLIR--and there is no video output for the MS 224 or 324. So to get that you have to go to the more expensive HM series, which apparently will be continued--at least for now.

Dave, Good point about the seats--and also I am told that they are using units to find people and pets in smoke filled rooms. I cannot go back in my life over 50 years ago, where I came on an accident and there were two cars, but no people visible. It sure would have been great to have had some imaging device at that time. We eventually found them all--as my wife flagged down more cars to search--and finally got enough people to lift the car, so I could crawl under and pull a woman and baby out.
 
thataway":dy0ahh81 said:
Dave, Good point about the seats--and also I am told that they are using units to find people and pets in smoke filled rooms.
Click to expand...

Dr. Bob, you are correct about utilizing the TIC to locate victims in smoke filled structures, I alluded to it in my previous text. Some fire departments have been able to spring the $ for fire helmet mounted TICs, which enables the firefighter to free their hands from having to hand carry the TIC and then have their hands free for advancing the hoseline and for carrying tools into the fire. Unfortunately, these TICs are not cheap and so for most departments to have at least one handheld TIC on each engine company is a luxury.
 
Figured I'd post a Flir update in this thread as opposed to starting a new one. Flir has a new line of handheld thermal imaging cameras, the Ocean Scout. From what I can tell, it is an update to the First Mate.

I've been lusting after a thermal imaging camera after using the First Mate on a nighttime CG AUX patrol. We have a lot of debris in the rivers at certain times of the year and I boat at night quite frequently so adding this safety device seemed like a great idea. The ideal situation would be to have one of the Flir fixed mount cameras that interfaces with my chartplotter so I wouldn't have to hold the handheld unit up to my eye while sticking my head out the window. Unfortunately the cheapest fixed mount Flir with pan/tilt is about $8k.

The Ocean Scout 320 has a composite video out. My chartplotter has composite video in. Hmmm. It retails for $2,999. TheGPSStore.com has them for $2,549 (I've purchased from them before so they are reputable). Flir is offering a $200 rebate until 6/31. So for $2,349 I decided to buy one.

It hooked up very easily to the composite video input of my chartplotter and provides a real time feed. The viewfinder on the unit works at the same time. So if I have a crew onboard, they can be scanning with the unit held to their eye and I can see it simultaneously on the chartplotter. For the times when I don't have any crew onboard, I have a RAM suction cup mount that fits it perfectly (it has a standard 1/4-20 threaded insert like a camera). I can just reach out of the center or starboard window and stick it to the boat. The best part about it not being a fixed mount is that I can take it with me to another boat or for use at the house.

Here it is on a combination screen (lower left, bow rail shows up very cold):

Flir.sized.jpg
 
Good review. The Ocean Scout 320 is a definite upgrade from the unit which I have--almost twice the resolution and a 2x zoom, for just a few more dollars--progress! Along with the ability of have video on a MFD, makes it a real winner.

There is another company in the mix, and that is Iris. I am only aware of a very few boats having one of these units. They are making both daylight/low light IR black and white cameras, with IR illuminators. (I have one at my home, which will read license plates at 100 meters--but this is not a marine unit.) They have a marine version for about $800. But I don't believe that this is true thermal imagery. They do have a Pan Tilt Zoom true IR camera, with daylight mode, for $4500. This is the one, which a few boats have and seems to be satisfactory, and comparable to the FLIR. However, this has the same micro blog sensor, with a resolution of 240 x 320 the same as Rob's. So I say that the Ocean Scout is a bargain!
 
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