Frequent Sea's adventures

Dr. Bob,

Sounds like you had fun. Wish we could have been there with a couple of thousand NE and NS lobster men plus the Canadian maritme Services to verify your statement:- "I felt fortunate that we did not have a “down east” type of boat which would have buried its forefoot and broached." :lol:

Glad you enjoy surfing although it's much better on the big ocean swells rather than the confused chop we get up here.

Merv
 
Bob , great stories . I gotta say I ran a Fortier 26 [ true lobster boat]for West Marine in Santa Cruz , Ca. for years and saw alot of seas . My arms were very strong [ and I was in my late 30s] from fighting that wheel . My surfing experience kept us from broaching many times in the Pacific going downhill. I know exactly what Bob is talking about. I loved the boat though.............. Its a boat !
Marc
 
Marc,
You got it in one, You have to know how to drive 'em. I grew up with this kind of boat.
I have found that with the power now available (ie 2x 135's) and fast autopilot you can avoid much of the "popeye" stuff even though the autopilot lacks the anticipation function of the human brain.

Merv
 
It was a straight inboard single , It took a while to learn ,you could tell who had figured it out by who could make it go straight in a following sea. And the size of their arms..........
Marc
 
I hear you Marc,

I'm not (quite) as old as some I could mention but I still wish I could handle one of those the way that some of the Lobstermen of the NE coast do. Perhaps with 20 years of doing it every day in all weathers.... even then.

Undoubtedly, that hull design behaves differently to a CD and also to a TC in different seas and you have to learn to deal with it. I have not yet been unlucky enough to get caught in conditions where I could say that one or the other would not have survived. The probability is that both will exceed my desire/need to be out there in those conditions.

Hence the decision of myself and others to trailer to Telegraph cove rather than drive the boat there. Johnstone and Georgia straights are just a pain with the typical NW wind pattern we have right now and the volume of water that goes through there.

Merv
 
I will be specific. I have have been asked to take the helm of one of these type boats in the Pacific Ocean Conitions where there owner was frightened and could not control the boat--as Marc, I had experience which allowed the boat to come safely home, but the C Dory handles this type of seas far better than a boat with round chines and deeper forefoot. I am thinking of one specific competitor of the C Dory, where several list members have complained of handling problems in the conditions I described.
 
Bob,
Exactly my point. You have to know how to deal with each boat type.
All are different. If I drove my boat like a CD in following seas I would have a problem. Conversely If I drove a CD the same way as my (now) boat into a head sea I would also have a problem.

MY only issue is that I would NEVER say that one or the "other" hull style would have done this or that. THAT depends more on the expertise of the helmsperson than on the hull design. If you don't believe that, then look at how they discovered this country.

That does not mean some "fatal flaw" with either boat type. neither does it mean that one would sink where the other would swim. Probability is that both would survive where we, mere mortals with limited experience would have long given up.

There is no perfect boat.

At great personal risk I might add, as per the Rev Dave. That may be why we call them "she".


Having said that, I don't sell boats. I don't care what anyone else thinks of my choice but I have my opinion based on many years of practice and I really don't care if anyone disagrees because I am too busy enjoying my boat and what I can personally get out of it. In that respect, I have also to bow to the expertise of those that would rarely post on here and who put 100 times the hours on their boats per year than any of us recreational boaters. I just wish we could get to 1/10th of their expertise in handling them and I wish that I had the expertise to handle my boat in all that nature can throw at me (But that is not going to happen).

We loved or CD, we love our RF. the reasons do not have to be the same and I don't have any bricks to throw at any of them.

Over and out.

M
 
Not trying to prolong any kind of argument, but a boat with a fine entry and rounded chines in a following sea would seem to be an ideal candidate to dig the bow in, roll over, and broach.

The flatter bottom and hard chines of a C-Dory along with a less pointed entry would seem more inherently stable that the Downeast or lobster style boat described above.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
A few more comments about our cruise. We put an extra handle on the inside of the boat--on the for ward piller of the head door, this gives Marie one more hand hold inside of the boat, and she uses it getting up into the aft dinette seat, where she prefers to ride, (rather than the traditional navigators seat. We left the dinette as a dinette, and made the forward foot well area into storage (dog food, extra bedding, our dop kits, the window covers etc.

We also put a "front" over the shelf over the helm seat, so that all of the charts and books could be stowed there, and not fall down (at least most of the time, if I properly latched it). We put in foam sheet insullation on each side of the V berth to cut down condensation.

We did acquire a "Solar" anchor light--from Canadian Tire. It charges up in a day's sunshine and gives 10 hours of a bright white light (not really legal, but enough to show where the boat is, and saves the battery drain of the anchor/steaming light).

We left our Garhauer davit up all of the time (to hoist the outboard to the dinghy form the transom bracket) and mounted the American Flag on the top of the davit (lashed). We duct taped small lines to the stb antenna to fly the Canadian Courtesy Flag. We put our extra gas cans between the parallel bars in the anchor well (put there for an ice chest or the generator to sit upon.

We never used our generator, but it was there as a back up.

We were glad to have the dremel tool--it has a small set of drill bits, as well as a number of cutting heads, wheels etc. It allowed us to do a certain amount of fabrication, without a drill or steel cutting device.

We will probably bring the chest freezer next year. We will certainly bring prawn and crab traps (which we had sitting in our garage) as well as our manual down rigger.

Most of our clothing was stowed in hammacks and "sheet bags" along the outboard upper sides of the V berth. We had a Temprapedic foam pad 1" thick over the matress, queen size flat sheets, and one heavy sleeping bag over the V berth. We each also had light fleece blankets for the nights when it was not as cold. We also had warm socks for our feet at night.

We had mats in the cockpit which were rubber backed and had fabric--seemed to wash and drain easily. In the Cabin sole, we had a poly prop carpet which was on the boat, and then covered it with runners, which could be washed.

We both have had 17" high boots for some time, and used these frequently when landing the dinghy. Only once early in the game, did Marie get any water in the boots (we took the dog ashore at least 4 times a day, so there were a number of dinghy trips. Although it would have been nice to have a larger dinghy-the 6'7" PVC boat was equal to the trip. We did have to patch a oyster shell penetration early in the game, but avoided any further "injury".

Again--just some random thoughts--some of these from our previous 4 years cruising this area 6 months out of the year---and some from the 6 week trip in the C Dory this year.

Yes, I agree that different boats require different skill sets to handle properly. Certainly the "down east" type of boats evolved as a work boat on the East coast, but an entirely different set of boats evolved as work boats on the West Coasts. "Tradition" often plays a large role in what boats are popular in a certain area--and much of that is the prevelant conditions in that specific area. I have spent a lot of my time on the water in many different hull forms and many different areas. What is good for one area, may not be good for other areas. Certainly wave, current and Sea conditions can dictate what is the best boat for specific purposes. Agreed that there is no one perfect boat.....but there are some boats (including hull forms) which are far better than others--and that I found out a number of years ago during our offshore cruising days.

I made an observation--based on my experiences on multiple boats--the C Dory is a good boat down wind and down waves--certainly one of its forte's. This site is about C Dories. The only other boats going down wind/waves in those conditions were in the 55 foot plus range--and we were going faster than they were. The only boats going to weather were in the 120 foot plus range.....so it was significant sea conditions.
I doubt if any small boat would have been comfortable--or perhaps even safe going into the seas in those specific conditions.[/i]
 
Bob,

That was some run south you had in the Johnstone!

It was small craft to gale force in Johnston Straits, but would be behind us as we ran down the coast. We took a short cut thru the broken islands at the entrance to Havannah Channel to avoid bucking into the heavy seas in Johnstone straights, as we exited. The seas were 5 to 6 foot and wind 30 steady gusting to 35.

Fellow Brats, please don't try this at home!! The Johnstone can get very mean and will kick your a**!!

Bob has lots of experience in many years of cruising worldwide.

For most CD's, the correct course of action would be to wait for calmer conditions. There is a nice anchorage in the Havannah Channel. Eleven miles south of the Broken Islands, the NW wind can *double* whatever speed it has at the Broken Islands. This is due to the mountains on either side of the channel. The wave trains run south in the Johnstone and reflect off the cliffs back into the channel. This produces multiple wave trains that interact with each other, making some waves and troughs twice as high or low as the average.

The suggestion to trailer to Telegraph Cove or Port McNeil is a good one, and can save your life, especially for Brats with less experience than 'thataway' Bob.
 
Larry,

As always, you are right! This old white head has spent too many hours/days fighting that hunk of nasty water. It's just not a good place to be for any small boat with an inexperienced driver. You can do it, Bob can do it, I could have done it a few years ago :wink: , but hull shape doesn't mean a thing when you are miserable!! Of course each to his own on hull shape. One of the best down-sea boats I've owned is my old Egg Harbor - round and pointy -- the only time it got itchy was when I messed up, let the swell pass, and had props and rudders out of the water when I was on the crest. Running down hill into some of those east coast narrow channels can cut circles in your cushion!

Come visit, I'm lonesome!

Duster
 
Bob, it was nice to meet you and Marie in Princess Louisa and Lund. Glad to hear you've had a good and safe trip. I agree that the C-Dory is a great boat downsea. On our way back we had some nasty days. On one of them we left Secret Cove bound for Gibsons. There was a 25-30 knot southeasterly blowing with 4-5 footers in the Strait of Georgia and we could only make about 4 knots into the head sea. Near Sechelt we turned around and anchored on the lee side of the Trail Islands while we waited for the wind to calm. When we turned around I was shocked at how well the boat handled the following seas...17 knots and surprisingly comfortable. Much better than head seas!

BTW, there is a picture of Frequent Sea in my album from when we were leaving Princess Louisa Inlet.
 
Hey Larry, where you be? Don't have a fix on you since we saw you in Cornet Bay after the FHCDGT.

Dusty, If you are getting kinda lonesome with Les on travel don't forget there are other old farts looking for an excuse to go and catch us a few.
May not be quite retired yet but have learned how to organize work to fit my schedule !!

Merv & Kathy
 
M & K,

I've been hanging at the Everett Marina. Our summer cruising is 'on hold' pending the outcome of an ill family member.

Sawdust,

Perhaps I will take you up on a visit sometime soon.

If we don't get back out on the water, I hope to get to the Bellingham gathering, even if by land.
 
Larry,

Sorry about the "un-cruise" situation. I'm planning Bellingham if Joe doesn't toss me out.

Merv,

Got a P.M. off your direction :thup

Dusty
 
Dusty --
We hope to be down to Cornet Bay this next week and will certainly stop by for a visit with our friend. Keep the coffee kettle on. Cheers.
 
We have to "round out" the finale of the trip. Again we left under marginal conditions, but what was safe for us--but not comfortable. We had somewhat of a deadline to get to S. Calif--and back to Florida and deal with Marie's Mother's health problems. There were small craft warnings--the wind had abated in Fisherman Bay where we spent the night so we left at 6 AM hopefully to cross the Straits of San Juan de Fuca in moderate conditions. Smith Island was reporting 14 to 18 knots out of the West, with an ebb tide, so the seas would steepen up a bit. Of course Cattle Pass, had it usual rolly coaster ride with the ebb tide, but as soon as we got out of the lee of San Juan Island there were breakers--and two things happened for the first time on the boat. First we got enough solid water over the foredeck that some dripped thru the foreward hatch (so it comes off and gets recaulked)--the second is that bilge water from under the cockpit got into the cabin floor (not much, and we were running the aft bilge pump regularly to prevent that). I believe that water came back under the head/shower, around the head discharge hose to the holding tank. Inspection with mirrors and a light show that there was no caulking in this area. It would only happen with rough weather--and there is no easy solution to this problem. Just mop it up, and clean the carpet when you can. By the time we were in the lee of Dunginess Spit, the seas had begun to smooth out. We still averaged over 9 knots for the entire trip--of course beam seas--not head seas.

Why did we go with Small craft warnings? The next three days also had SCW--plus stronger winds--and anticipated higher seas. Right now I am looking out over the Straits and see waves going over the bows of freighters--so our choice was valid. So we took the best opportunty. Would it have been better to trailer the boat to Telegraph cove?--not for us. We wanted to see friends in the San Juans.
We wanted to visit places in the Desolation sound area--and I don't think that the cost was much less going under power. We went almost 1200 miles--and the fuel consumption was very close to 3 miles a gallon over all (of course this included about 50% of the time at displacement speeds)
The Lowrance flow meter was quite accurate, as long as the boat was making 5 knots or more--below that level, it was off--out of about 380 gallons of fuel on fill up to fill up basis, it shows, 358 gallons used--the under utalization reflects the slow speeds, including some trolling.

As we neared Sequim, we heard a "Mayday". Another boat was on scene, but didn't seem to know what to do, except relay to Coast Guard Port Angeles. A Rawson 30 sailboat had gone aground off the seaward side of Gibson Spit--actually was over 50 yards outside of the channel. I guess that he forgot the "red right returning"....Anyway, he was fully aground. We got close enough that Marie was able to catch a line from the boat, and we drug his 44 lb Bruce with 50 feet of chain and 250 feet of line, out against the current (not easy to do). We put a line thru the anchor shackle and tied both ends (separately) to the foreward cleat. When we were at the end of the line and chain, Marie let one of the lines go, and this allow the anchor to drop to the bottom. It appeared to set, and as the skipper cranked on his winch, (no windlass-) and actually the boat did pivot, but eventually the Bruce was winched home to the boat. We did not want to risk another pass--so a 12 foot Duroboat took it out once more--again winched home. (One of the reasons I don't have a Bruce Anchor). If the sailboat had a spinaker halyard, I would have pulled him off by the mast, but with only a SS cable, there was way too much chance of jamming it between the sheave and the mast head bracket. He was walking around the boat when tide was at its lowes, and the boat appeared to be safe. We had spent several hours, and so went on in. About 4 hours later on a rising tide, another boat pulled him off. Pulling on the mast head trick works--but only if the rig is in excellent condition. I would not want to be responsiable for the loss of a rig--and that is another reason we bypassed that route. We have used that "trick" with our own winches on several occasions--but set one anchor in deep water, in the direction we wanted to pull the boat--then set another kedge anchor tied to the spinaker halyard (this halyard is free to swivel almost 360 degress, and being a line, it would not jam, as a cable would. After the boat is heeled down--and being pulled toward the deeper water, the windlass or other winches will pull the boat foreward to allow it to float. Trying to power off in this circumstance often makes the grounding worse. Also it is wise to sound the water all around the boat to find the deepest path.

We spent the night at John Wayne Marina, and washed down the boat and all Canvas. This gave us a good chance to visit with our friends who live in the second house North of the Marina. At 6 AM the next morning we pulled Frequent Sea--the end of our Adventure. We put well over 200 hours on the boat this last year (and we have put over 200 hours on each of the other two boats we own during this year--probably average for us--unless we were long distance cruising, and then we put several thousand hours a year on the boat.

Yesterday was clean and unpack--which finished by noon today. We did have to scrub some algae off the bottom paint and trim tabs. There was a scum line, even though we had washed it every week in the water. By now, all of the beding, our clothes etc have been washed, and the entire interior washed down with bleach water. There was no mold on the foreward cushions--and I think that the extra insullation helped with that.

One other comment--that is "Stern lines" We picked up 200 feet of 3/8" three strand poly prop (probably would have been better with 300 feet, but we had an extra length of very heavy duty 1/2 Poly prop for the trees and rocks--then loop the lighter line thru that.

We head south on the Trailer and will spend a few days in S. Calif. with my children/grandchildren, then hot shot it to Pensacola.

Incidently my Tom Cat is currently working as a "tug" a friend hit a log about 200 miles from "home"--and had to get the boat home for repairs, so I said take "Thataway"--they easily made it back to the boat in 8 hours, and are towing "on the hip" at 6 knots on one engine. (Mainship 34).
 
Dr Bob,

Thanks for so many interesting and informative posts. And for the call on 16 when Paul asked for some help. (We were down at Sequim Bay State Park having lunch on the dock and enjoying the quiet water there about the time you called.) Snafu with the phone, ringer off and misplaced in the cabin, couldn't find it to call Paul at the 1500 check-in time. My Bad.) We were out that morning too, saw the sailboat up on the edge, and there was a small boat helping him when we went by, so we didn't miss you by much. We went out to the light house, spent some time photographing on the inside and then went around to the outside and about half way up/down (west) on the spit before we decided to return, Winds were building, and waves were too. Few caps, and 2-4 feet were common. Beyond the "comfortable " stage, but do-able, just picking and choosing the route back through the crab traps.

It was nice to get a chance to meet you at Paul and Verla's, and sorry we missed seeing you on the way into Sequim Bay. Here's wishing you safe travels, and fair winds and many happy returns.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
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