fridge users please help

Hey All:
We have an AC/DC Norcold and wouldn't boat without it here in Florida. We use ours even on day trips and just got back from an 8 day trip in the Dry Tortugas and didn't stay in port at all. We've never had a dead battery but must admit that we manage ours daily and we keep the kids out of the fridge whenever possible. Those 5 day coolers sure don't work here either. Seems to work better if you keep the drain plug slightly cracked open. If anyone needs more info let us know.
 
Just ordered a 25 with the factory fridge, and will be cruising the Cheaspeake in the sweltering mid-atlantic summer. We'll have the Honda 150 + 15 kicker with electric start (for the bigger alternator). We'll have 3 batteries (one for kicker), but 2 connected with the typical 1, 2, or 1+2 switch to the 150 which has the 40 amp alternator. Is a separate house bank recommended somehow wired to recharge, or perhaps one deep cycle and one cranker on the 2+1 switch (my happy boater brain thinks that sounds great but my engineer brain is thinking this isn't a good idea). We'll have a gel cell on the kicker. The kicker will have a 12 amp alternator, which should give us a little bit of back up, but at this point I am not planning on having this wired into the main electrical system. Not sure how to do it if we chose to anyhow... Any all words of advice are welcome. Just want to keep the :beer cold! Thanks and cheers.

TJ

Hailing from Middle River, MD
A drinking town with a boating problem...
 
TJ -

Your description of the battery setup is identical to mine, including the gel cell for the kicker that is not wired to the others.

Your other two batteries that are charged through the switch by the big Honda should both be the same size/type if you ever plan to charge them both at once. Les says the marine cranking batteries are great, and that they are sort of a step between a deep cycle and a starter. My setup has one battery for the Honda 130, and the other for the house. I have a battery combiner wired between the two (the 50 amp model of this), so when either one reaches a voltage of 13.something, indicating it is being charged, the combiner switches itself on and parallels the two batteries. That way they both get charged whether running the motor or using the on board battery charger. Some folks don't like the combiners, but I love 'em. It has always worked for me. The only thing I use the 1-2-All switch for is to disconnect the battery from the motor when left sitting for any length of time.

Your fridge will probably have the automatic switch over to AC if the shore power is plugged in. Mine is strictly DC, but when the shore power is on, the battery charger is also going, so the AC switchover is not needed. If for some reason I want to run the fridge on AC separately from the shore power, I have a little converter that I can plug it into. I have run the fridge for a good 12 hours without recharging the battery several times, and it never is a problem.

I think the gel cell (mine is actually an Optima spiral wound) for the kicker is great. It will sit for much longer periods without a recharge than a lead acid type, and generally takes a lot more abuse. But it is sitting right there for use as a jumper battery if ever needed. The chance of needing it is so slight that providing the wiring to let it switch over to the other system is a waste of time. If I ever need it, I can swap the positive cable to it in less than a minute.

Congratulations on your new boat! Let me know when you want a photo album for it, because we gotta see the pictures!
 
gotjm3:

I took the easy, simple, cheap poor mans route. Might give you some ideas. I have a 22 and only two batteries in the starboard lazaret. I chose a rope start kicker for maximum startability in case batteries are down/stolen? And somewhere down the road will use the kicker on another small craft.

I put aligator clamps on the charging leads and just clamp them to the steering cable in the lazaret when not used. I clamp them to the battery I want to charge when I run the kicker. This bypasses the 1-2 switch and any other engine/charging configuration you may have. If you want, you can run house items off one battery while you charge the other by using the switch for house and clamps for charging.

Not a good idea to have the clips on the same battery when the main engine is running/charging that battery. Or when using the shore power charger. So it takes a bit of disipline. As a remider/safeguard I use one fuel line for both engines. When I put the fuel line on the kicker, it reminds me to check the charging leads.

Not sure where all your batteries are located but with charging leads from your kicker being able to be connected to the other batteries: You could start the kicker on the gel and charge any other battery with the leads if needed. Or use a three position switch to route only the kicker charging to any of the three batteries instead of clamps. Then off when not used.
 
Agree with "Molly Brown" -- after having the Norcold, absolutely would not be without it.

Since I "cruise" and "anchor" on land much more than water, the Norcold really gets a workout. I have a dedicated start, and a single deep cycle for the house (80/amp/hour).

Fairly easy to manage the fridge -- power it up and set to max and get the box cold -- back down to #4
-- at night turn it off (it'll act as an ice-box overnight). In the morning -- turn it on to #4. That single battery will last over a week that way. Just a matter of power management.

All the straightline power graphs, curves, figuring, re-figuring, don't work with the Norcold. The compressor is off -- more time than it is on. It is very well insulated. It has been no problem, I run mine a lot.

As someone once said: "turn it on, use it, turn it off." Just like a Mercury.
 
Although I am new to this site, and am still looking for a c-dory I am not new to this topic. I lived aboard a sailboat for 10 years and batteries and refrigeration were right up there in the topics list at every dock or gathering. Seldom will you see a front opening icebox or fridge on a sailboat. Those folks know their refrigeration and charging and go to extremes to manage and generate electricity. When bombardier came out with e-tec I was extremely pleased to see all those amps in from the alternator. Something like 65 amps. If I buy a c-dory with an ice box it will come out. But if I repower or power new I will try to make it e-tec and a adler-barbour or similar unit will go back in. I remember my first adler barbour I put in a sailboat. After planning my voyages around the availability of ice I was finally able to make ice, what an incredible luxury. BIG ice cubes in my drink. It is great. My last system was powered by 2 6 volt golf cart batteries. Manageable size, and they would run the compressor for at least two days at the hook without starting the diesel. Then when I did start the diesel I had a bypass on the regulator so I could charge up in an hour or so. C-dory boats are big enough, with enough storage to have some of these amenities.
 
The Norcold for my boat is one of the best additions there was. I can vouch for the 3 days on the house battery if you switch it or turn to low at night -- it does not run continuously at any setting. Ice is great -- flexibility is great. With a small generator aboard, no worries.
 
Hi Folks,

I did not see this mentioned, but if you add a Solar Panel to your cabin top, it just might keep things cold with an AC/DC Fridge. Worth looking into.

Fred Heap
 
Pat Anderson":8manxye6 said:
Marineparts.com lists this puppy at $992.60 - so I think I can stand letting my steaks mix with thawed ice water for just a TAD longer...Actually, I have been thinking about some kind of false floor, so block ice can be underneath and the food up out of the water...
Click to expand...

Pat - a few years back I found some shelves at Target that were designed for use in school lockers. They're made out of two plastic pieces that nest one within the other and are designed so that one can be pulled out and locked at many different lengths to allow one to adjust it to the width of the locker and jam in place (rubber feet on the end retain it). The pieces are about 1" thick honeycomb material - they made a great false bottom for a cooler. Look for them this year during the back to school sales...

Roger on the SeaDNA
 
Good topic... I will have to do some searching... Pat/Daydream: we just use about 9 cans of our favorite beverage in the bottom of our "food" cooler to keep stuff out of the water. They make for a very easy cleaning shelf...grin. We also keep one cooler on board with nothing but ice in it. Open it about 2 hours after dark and transfer ice from it to the "beverage" cooler which is opened often, and the food cooler which is only opened 1 to 3 times a day depending on meals.... I have saw some real commercial grade coolers that are for real long term coolers used on the commercial fishing vessels on the Gulf Coast. They have to be tuff to take the direct sun light, heat and humidity down here. They are spendy .... I am going to have to look into this refrigerator deal. Would be nice to keep one in the back of the Excursion with condiments and stuff to make these day or two trips to the boat a little easier...and tail gateing at the football games a bit nicer too.
 
Fast forward, now we have the Norcold on the CD25, and two AGM house batteries, plus a generator (maybe we should add solar panels too!). We still use a cooler with block ice for beverages, large items and whatever does not fit neatly in the fridge. The Target locker shelves do sound useful. It is amazing how a lot of stuff can be adapted for use on a C-Dory!


rogerbum":2f8hbrmm said:
Pat - a few years back I found some shelves at Target that were designed for use in school lockers. They're made out of two plastic pieces that nest one within the other and are designed so that one can be pulled out and locked at many different lengths to allow one to adjust it to the width of the locker and jam in place (rubber feet on the end retain it). The pieces are about 1" thick honeycomb material - they made a great false bottom for a cooler. Look for them this year during the back to school sales...

Roger on the SeaDNA
Click to expand...
 
Please don't shoot the messenger, but...I still have the factory ice box in place. I'm not excited about dropping $700 plus on a frig for my
CD22 (not that it wouldn't be a nice convenience, but I still want to keep things as simple as possible). And yes, I still have the manual windshield wipers.
Has anyone out there in CD Land had any success (or is it possible) to add insulation to the outside rear of the ice box to increase its cooling efficiency? Seems I read somewhere that either a Brat or a Dog did just that and had success. Add a block of ice and go. Naturally, the ice box would be used to store the food stuffs for long term coldness. Drinks and the "got to get tos" would be in the ice chest. The ice box would be only for long term stuff.

Just a thought. I have been counting my bucks and doing some thinking in regards to a fridge .. but $700 + bucks. I saw a Honda 2000 for $870 including shipping. Wouldn't that be a much better investment?

P.S. Any reasons for not using dry ice in the ice box? Any bio hazards? Does it melt like regular ice or vaporize gases that will stunt your growth, prematurely age you, or cause the big C?

John
Swee' Pea
 
Swee Pea":trkcs6oj said:
P.S. Any reasons for not using dry ice in the ice box? Any bio hazards? Does it melt like regular ice or vaporize gases that will stunt your growth, prematurely age you, or cause the big C?

Swee' Pea
Click to expand...

Dry ice (solid CO2 or carbon dioxide) is colder (-109F compared to 32F) so its best for frozen goods. It doesn't melt, it sublimes - e.g. turns from a solid to a gas directly. CO2 is generally harmless with the exception that "carbon dioxide is heavier than air and it can concentrate in low areas or in enclosed spaces (like a car or a room where dry ice is sublimating). Normal air is 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen and only 0.035% Carbon Dioxide. If the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air rises above 5%, carbon dioxide can become toxic. Be sure to ventilate any area that contains dry ice, and do not transport it in a closed vehicle." quoted text from http://science.howstuffworks.com/question264.htm.

Hence those that use dry ice in their ice boxes should consider that the v-berth is below the levels of the windows and hatch and asphyxiation is a real danger if the boat is not well ventilated and the cooler is generating CO2 rapidly (like on a very hot day)- it might be wise to leave the cabin door open as that's below V-berth level.

The effect of high levels of CO2 in the air is symptoms that can include nausea, dizziness, mental depression, shaking, visual disturbances and vomiting. At extremely high levels, loss of consciousness may occur. In some cases, the affected individual may not realize what is happening to him/her prior to losing the capacity to correct the problem.

As far as the Norcold fridge goes .... I had one in my boat since day 1 and wouldn't do without it. I have 2 batteries and the fridge will run for several days without draining them. On my recent return from Neah Bay I realized that I must have "donated" my 30A to 15A 120V adapter to the dock out there and hence couldn't plug the boat back in at home until I bought another. Hence the fridge ran off of battery power from Wed afternoon (when I left Neah Bay) until Sun AM (when I dropped another $50 on the adapter). Average daily temps were about 75F with 50F evenings. Nothing else was drawing power during that time.

Roger on the SeaDNA
 
One hundred watt solar panel could keep a small fridge happy for quite some time ....and could assist motor recharging too.

Modern solar panels are very efficient and they can be set up on top of the wheel house and invisible.

I dry camp on land with one and usually the panel feeds my power requirements quite adequately.

They produce power even on cloudy days albeit at a reduced rate.
 
The new generation Danfoss compressors require very little current draw. We opted for a Tundra unit which I installed this past winter $585 total cost including Refrigerator, cable, fuse block, switch, and vent covers (installation details are in our photo album under winter projects).

In 60-80 degree ambient air temps. the unit runs 5 min. and is off for 25 min., for a duty cycle of 10 min. per hour and a draw of about 2 amperes when running. We figure 48 hours minimum without charging while cruising in the Northwest (our batteries (2) are Optima Blue tops wired in parallel). :)
 
I don't mean to be a wise guy, but my boat is still being made and my wife and I thought that the ice box was a "cool" idea for keeping things cool for 2~3 days by placing a block of ice in the top shelf, we will also have another cooler in the cockpit.
Is the major problem leakage, ice mealting in just a day or less, I guess I just don't expect to much out of it but I would like it to hold ice for at least two days, am I in lala land ? I still have time to cancell the ice box and get the storage shelf. Is anyone out there happy with the ice box. I live in the Pacific NW and we don't get a lot of hot days.
Thank you.......Big Dave
 
I don't mean to be a wise guy,
Click to expand...

Sure, that's what they all say!

Welcome to the Pub, Big Dave! And congratulations on the soon to be boat.

A lot of people, including me, have removed the icebox from CD 22s. It is thin walled, flimsy, and does not hold ice very long. It does work as an icebox, though, and a lot more people have and use them. The only reason I initially jerked the one out of my boat was becase it was busted up around the mounting flange. My wife thought it worked fine. (She thinks the Norcold we now have in the CD 25 is much better, though.)

I am sure they have since fixed it, but in the older boats, the drain hose for the icebox was not routed out of the cabin until the owner did it. That is an easy fix, but a major whining point for a long time.

So, no, if you think the icebox might be adequate, do not delete it. If at some point you want to junk it, the box it is in is pretty square and easy to convert yourself.

In the mean time, just be as wise a guy as you want, because it sorta fits with the name of the group. Glad to have you here.
 
Wow!!! 2 amps for 1/6 of an hour = 1/3 amp-hour/hour!

Take a 115 amp hour rated group 27 battery with about 75 usable amp-hours of power available and you get (theoretically)

75 amp-hours/0.33 amp-hour/hour = 225 hours= 9.4 days!

Of course, the start up current is probably higher than 2 amps and we don't know where the low voltage cut-off point is, but with these numbers electrical consumption has ceased to be a problematic factor in adding refrigeration to your boat.

Now where to put the bugger and where to move the stuff to that it displaces?

As an aside, do any of you remember seeing photos of Zoe's Pride on the C-Dog's site with the full blown freezer setting in the cockpit with the generator and about 57 other essential pieces of gear on his Inside Passage trip to S. E. Alaska?

Joe.
 
Joe --
Yep, we sure do remember the load that Zoe's Pride was carrying to Alaska, and when we didn't hear anything from him for months after his scheduled return, we recall the concern (from us) and many others on the site. He had a great trip, we remember from his posts when they finally came. Anybody heard from or about him recently?
 
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