From E.Q. - Possible status change

I hope nobody thinks I am attacking Tom Latham, I think I mentioned I don't know him and don't dislike him - I am simply using the term "Lathamization" to describe a phenomenon at C-Dory, one I am probably in a better position than most to describe, since I have first hand experience with both the "old" and the "new" C-Dory company. I might as well have said "Baylinerization." The fact is that this business philosophy change at C-Dory came with the man. But it isn't personal. And there is little or no speculation in the three things I pointed to as being bad decisions by C-Dory from the customer's standpoint.
 
It all boils down to Scot's goals .He signs the front of the checks . That will be the determining factor on the direction of the company and ultimatly the rise or fall of the brand we once knew.
 
My wife and I have decided to buy a boat. We've owned a sailboat, and rented sail and power in the San juans, U.S.V.I., and Alaska. As full-time RVers, we want a trailerable cruiser for the Inside passage, Great Lakes, Keys and Gulf.

Imagine my joy at findng the C-Brats site! What a great bunch of folks, willing to share their experiences and boat knowledge. This group alone had been a strong factor in us considering the C-Dory as our 1st choice.

But ......

We plan to spend all of next summer in the PNW (Port Townesnd - Anacortes), looking at and for our cruiser. Thanks to the C-Brats, I now have a recommended dealer on Whidbey (E.Q. Marine) to spend some quality time with, and a few more boat brands that might fit our needs better (Arima & Rosborough).
 
cpf3, don't let this thread keep you from buying a C-Dory. There are some problems on some of the boats but they aren't junk, yet. EQ marine wouldn't sell you a bad boat

Steve
 
Milehog":3sf7f39f said:
cpf3, don't let this thread keep you from buying a C-Dory. There are some problems on some of the boats they but aren't junk, yet. EQ marine wouldn't sell you a bad boat.

I would agree with this. The Arima isn't going to come close to livability of a 22, not even one with a plasticized interior, if you're thinking of making long distance trips (using the boat as a boaterhome, etc.).
 
To begin, we have been customers of Les and Kathy's and now consider them friends. We purchased our 07 CD25 from E.Q. after several years of discussion and research with invaluable input from Les.

In the business world, as an independent dealer/ retailer myself, I know that the first responsibility is to the customer, to provide him what meets his needs at the best value. We know there are many components that go into a successful business but a strong satisfied customer base is paramount. It's paramount to the retailer's success AND IT IS PARAMOUNT TO THE SUPPLIER'S SUCCESS.

Les has a strong loyal (as evidenced on this thread) customer base because his main objective is to help a buyer define their needs and to find the best way possible to meet them. Les is NOT interested in putting the customer in what fulfills some sales quota. Instead Les' manner of doing business is to always look for ways to improved the customer's joy of ownership and usage. This philosophy will ensure the continued success of E.Q. Harbor Services. No matter what.

We appreciate doing business with a dealer that cares about me and my wants/desires and not about the size of the sale or the size of my wallet !!
Les and Kathy have done that for us and it is special. The service of the sale - pre, during and post - has been a GREAT EXPERIENCE !! THANK YOU, E.Q.

Bob and Betsy Burks
Proud owners of Sea Pal
 
Hello Everyone,

I have been trying to get the C-Dory website back up ever since it went down yesterday. Our Internet Service Provider has stated that due to technical difficulties, many of its customers are experiencing the same problem. Obviously this is a concern to us and we will continue to work on getting it resolved until it is back up.

I have been following this thread with sincere interest, as I do with many topics that appear here. Thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions. My family and I are spending the holiday weekend in Gig Harbor. I look forward to more feedback and providing more information about our efforts as they relate to quality when I get back to the office next week.

Have a nice Labor Day weekend!

Thanks,

Scot Reynolds
 
Thank you Scot
Some interaction from the factory and you in paticular would be usefull. You have said it yourself, at the factory open house, how valuable this web site is to the success of C-Dory. Your partisapation here, is very welcome.
Terry
 
Hey Warren,

A little side step here for encouragement.

K&E quality is still alive and well at my work bench.

I still own 2 - 10", log-log-deci-trig slide rules (one plastic[?] & one metal)and a circular version. Imagine.... They are still running with the same original batteries from the 50's and 60's!! Did I mention that I still use them as a quick check?
 
Scot Reynolds":3w3bg0f6 said:
I look forward to more feedback and providing more information about our efforts as they relate to quality when I get back to the office next week.

What a pleasant, upbeat, positive message! It would have been so easy to get defensive and create a downward spiral in this thread.

Looking forward to next week!

Warren
 
A ray of hope, nice response. Maybe a new one will be an option.

If he walks the walk. It's all about quality and real service. Time will tell.

I'm greatful for this forum, as we will be able to tell what goes
 
Scott;
Thanks for uplifting my Labor Day Weekend.

I sure love my Sea Angel AND it is not for sale!

I love the quality I have found in it and the service it has given us. Each time I have the CD on the work rack for cleaning at the marina, or visiting other area marinas, I will have to give the 'grand tour' to a "visitor". Talk about an ego boaster.

Cutter Marine, Ruth & Gary - Thanks for working with me to put together the foundation for all the add-on toys.

Art
 
Greetings to all! I'm encouraged to hear that the factory is paying attention. We just took delivery of our new 22' Angler, which replaced our 1991 22' cruiser. Bought the new Angler from EQ, and was BLOWN AWAY by the quality of service. Les took several hours helping me decide on engines alone! What was even more impressive was the fact that he was swamped with orders at the time, yet took half a day to make sure we got just the right package, together with multiple phone/e-mail follow-ups to answer questions. I ended up getting a boat that suits our needs incredibly well but is substantially different than what I had in mind when I came in. I believe most dealers would've been happy to let me purchase the (much more expensive) package I'd set out to purchase with little concern about suitability or exploring other options. I had my checkbook in my hand, for heaven's sake! We bought in late Spring and didn't end up taking delivery until late July. The wait was well worth it. Through the entire process Les and Kathy were honest and never made promises they couldn't deliver on. I have also had great experiences with the factory, both in terms of technical feedback and factory service (back when they offered it). In my opinion, C-Dory Marine needs at least a few dealers like EQ, if for nothing else than the goodwill they help generate. EQ may not do the most volume, and in fact may not even be appropriate to sell the entire line, but they should absolutely remain a C-Dory dealer; C-Dory is darn lucky to have such fine and dedicated people representing their products. Thanks and happy boating. Mike Stevens. BTW we've settled on the name "Steady Eddy" for the new Angler.
 
Robbin and I have purchased two C-Dorys from EQ Marine. Our experience is an echo of what has already been said. Les, Kathy and their staff work very hard to deliver a quality product.
Anyone who has been to EQ knows that they are a small quality shop with the ability to deliver just so many boats. C-Dory should already know this so you have to wonder why they would try to force a small shop to exceed their abilities to deliver a quality product.
I consider Les and Kathy friends and wish them the very best. I wish the new C-Dory would understand what originally made them a success.

Fred
 
I too am happy to see SR reply. Hopefully Les will have his problem resolved and if there are other problems, they will be dealt with as well.

Here is my problem:

From: narcasis [videos (1) | favorites (0) | friends (0)]

Sent: September 02, 2007

Subject: C-Dory 22'

Message:

I'm considering getting a C-dory 22'....Trophy makes a 23' hardtop that is pretty similar, which do you think you would go with?

I like the c-dory cause of its versatility, its a good fishing/camping/cruising/weathering boat.

Thanks man, I enjoyed your videos, I'd love to see some of the c-dory itself.

______________

I can't begin to tell you how many of these I get. The "youtube" numbers don't begin to tell the story, since those youtubes are shared all over the net. After reading some of the stuff over the past 6 mos, I've begun to wonder about C-Dory. So I'd like to know from the new boat owners with the new interiors: everything OK? Any (major) problems with the boats? Because the very last thing I want to do is lead people into a bad situation.

Feel free to "pm" me.
 
I've been out of town the last couple of days and just went through all the pages of posts on this thread. I really don't have much new to offer, however agree fully with most of the previous posts and thus want to 'stand up and be counted' with my fellow brats.

I too received my CD-25 from EQ (one year ago) and have nothing but positives to say of the whole buying/followup experience with Les and crew. And I would definitely say my loyalties are much stronger to EQ than to the factory. I also had strong loyalties to Jeff Messmer but...

Unfortunately the direction of C-Dory continues to become clearer and it doesn't look like that direction is the one most of us would embrace. And Les' style probably doesn't fit the new program. Hey, if Les was allowed to sell fewer, and higher quality boats, wouldn't all the other dealers rise up in protest?
 
It is nice to hear that Scot Reynolds is taking a "sincere interest" in this thread, and the he will address the quality issue as soon as he returns to his office next week.

The last time we heard from the C-Dory factory about the quality issue was about a year ago when they promised to provide full details about their "second to none" quality control program. Scot, could you tell us where we can find that post?

Jim
 
Some of you may have noticed the one thing I did not mention was QC - I simply laid out the decisions made that cut C-Dory Marine off from and alienated its loyal customer base, which I think ought to be obvious to anyone is the largest asset they have had. If anything, I would think the move to the cookie-cutter boat model would be positive for the industrial aspects of QC...I certainly agree that current C-Dorys are not "junk" - they are still GREAT boats. But great service makes customers happy even more than a great product. Can anybody doubt that?

I too am glad Scot is following this and will respond. As Wefings said, Scot signs the front of the checks. It is his (and Rich's and Jeff's) capital that is at risk in this business. I will be very interested to hear why Scot advocated all these decisions (no factory sales, service or repairs; cookie-cutter boats with no customizations; and high volume high visibility Bayliner sales model) that is so 180 degrees different from the business model that earned the loyal customer base in the first place and is now fairly obviously alienating a substantial portion of that customer base. Of course he has no obligation to tell us, but I would think this should be of great concern to him and the other owners. Most businesses spend a fortune trying to understand their market, and ALL the successful ones know who their customers are, what they want and what drives their buying decisions. No other company I know has a chance to be so intimately connected to its customer base as C-Dory does through this web site. I sincerely hope they take advantage of it.

 
OK, nephew Pat, since we're at least being read by the factory I'll poke back in with a few personal observations as well. I bought my first C-22 in 2005 and only dealt with the factory on warranty issues until the recent Bellingham gathering when I actually visited. Most of the last two years has been C-Dory upheaval but I did find a few patterns.

1) As far as discussing warranty issues or factory fixes, I found C-Dory has always had a "squeaky wheel" mentality. Calls with promises were invariably put off and required two, sometimes three calls. On the other hand, once they kicked in with a fix, they were very generous with help and/or critical replacement items. At least one Reynolds appeared to be constantly overwhelmed and there appeared to be no organized path for dealing with the details. At least not since our first dealing with the factory back in early 2005.

2) In that recent personal visit, I found the key supervisors were friendly, extremely knowledgable, helpful and again, generous with parts, valuable advice etc. An attitude I think was there when Pat was dealing directly and still remains, albeit hampered by 1).

Back in the '80's, some of the nerds here might remember Kaypro Computers, a family operation based about 6 miles from our house. I'm intimately familiar with their downfall since their chief engineer and I were involved exploring a buy out of the manufacturing line and contracting back as an OEM IBM clone motherboard manufacturer. They had converted from CP/M computers to IBM and had a great reputation at the time. This was the same period that Dell Computers sprang into existence and Kaypro had a good base operation but poor organizational and management skills required to take Kaypro to the next level. We all know what Dell became and Kaypro ended up a "Could'a been."

Fortunately we saw the handwriting on the wall when an outside consultant came in who was very experienced at saving faltering companies. In keeping with Kaypro's record of poor management, the consultant's recommendations were virtually ignored, and when he ordered all the leased company vehicles cut from the budget, the Kays fired him. Andy was NOT gonna give up his white Mercedes!

Kaypro had too much Kay, and not enough Pro. The Kays had a "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" attitude and we all know what happened. Not pretty!

I'm definitely not suggesting C-Dory is a Kaypro about to happen! I can, however, comment that to be profitable, any manufactures has to make a choice; Build the cheapest or build the best. Anything in between usually results in disaster.

As many here have commented, management at the highest level has to back off and reexamine their priorities and goals. They may have to redefine "Niche" and be the best there is. I only know that Scott is collecting valuable data from his marketing base by reading our forums, and I sincerely hope his company weathers the economic storm all but the best run companies are experiencing right now.


Don
 
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