Gas Prices
- Thread starter Tug
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NORO LIM":1gc8j4oj said:
That was part of my reason for posting the chart. The only big swing I can explain on that chart with what's currently in my memory is the large drop in oil prices in late 2008/early 2009 due to the recession (we had a brief discussion about this in 2008 in the Bill and El "Uh-oh!" thread.
The gradually increasing rise in prices between 2000 and 2012 can be explained by a number of factors including increased demand from Asia and India (that didn't just start 2 months ago) and increasing instability and uncertainty about the middle east. Most of the rapid ups and downs during that time frame can generally be explained by either speculation or one or another geopolitical event (and sometimes both).
Prices at present, are just starting to get back to where they were pre-recession. In early 2008 we had a similar flurry of discussions on this board about the rising cost of fuel. Here's a link to one of those threads. Sometimes I think we have very short memories and I'm somewhat befuddled by recent calls here and elsewhere to quickly solve a "crisis" that's been a long time in development. If we begin to think long term, I think we'll all be better off.
Actually, there's another area in which we will have to agree to disagree. Also, I don't plan on selling my boat anytime soon. But if you make me an offer I can't refuse.... I do however, carpool into work in my wife's 44+ MPG Jette TDI on most days, bike a lot during the summer and sometimes commute by running the 14 miles home.localboy":15s1eqt8 said:
I was thinking that since some of the reason fuel prices seem to jump are caused by oil speculators rather than the actual price of oil. Some controls could be placed on these future traders. Since it has such a direct effect on the ecomomy. These traders don't have to storage or facilites they are just doing a computer and paper shuffle like the wall street people that had a lot to do with creating the current state of the ecomomy. So why not some controls? You know like they had to do with the Wall street boys. Since other countries look at the craziness we create here for our selves why would they think to lower prices? While I applaud driving less,getting fuel efficent cars, walking more, can you imagine what the airlines burn in a day? Not trying to upset one one here just thinking there are some things that could be done.
D.D.
D.D.
A bit political and personal!
Last night my sister in law gave me a booklet to read: "The One Room School House". It is a remembrance of a friend of her mother's life set in the 1915 era; rural Mississippi. There was a photo of Marie's "Dad" as a class member of this 1st thru 8th grade school house.
There were 1 to 3 mules-depending on the economic situation and one horse (used for work, riding and pulling the buggy). No cars or trucks. They walked to the one room school house, or rode in a mule pulled wagon. The only petroleum product was "coal oil"--(Kerosene). It was used for light in lanterns (no electricity until TVA), and to be poured into wounds as a disinfectant. Their families did not own an automobile until the 1930's.
Boats? That was a luxury far beyond what any of these folks could imagine.
My father and grandfather only had boats because they rebuild an old fishing boat, or a derelict. My father (born 1905) talked about the family mule and they lived in S. Calif.
So....lets count our blessings that we live in the United States, have the where-with-all and freedom to own a boat/car/truck, and have the luxuries we have. Yes fuel is more expensive right now--and may be even more. But we have choices how to use it, and what to do with our lives.
Last night my sister in law gave me a booklet to read: "The One Room School House". It is a remembrance of a friend of her mother's life set in the 1915 era; rural Mississippi. There was a photo of Marie's "Dad" as a class member of this 1st thru 8th grade school house.
There were 1 to 3 mules-depending on the economic situation and one horse (used for work, riding and pulling the buggy). No cars or trucks. They walked to the one room school house, or rode in a mule pulled wagon. The only petroleum product was "coal oil"--(Kerosene). It was used for light in lanterns (no electricity until TVA), and to be poured into wounds as a disinfectant. Their families did not own an automobile until the 1930's.
Boats? That was a luxury far beyond what any of these folks could imagine.
My father and grandfather only had boats because they rebuild an old fishing boat, or a derelict. My father (born 1905) talked about the family mule and they lived in S. Calif.
So....lets count our blessings that we live in the United States, have the where-with-all and freedom to own a boat/car/truck, and have the luxuries we have. Yes fuel is more expensive right now--and may be even more. But we have choices how to use it, and what to do with our lives.
Having read the posts in this thread I can only say this, I know about taxes on fuel, I don't give a rats big red you know what what all the economists and self proclaimed experts say. As long as the oil companies keep posting HUGE profit statements and can get away with it the price is NEVER gonna go down. There is not a president or wanna be prez that is going to be able to change that. I am very aware that this is a a very simplfied statement, but sometimes you just have to cut close to the bone. If as consumers you don't like what you are being charged, and nobody does, quit buying the product, and stop feeding the dragon. Face facts we are getting hosed. Plain and simple. Signing off
For those of you who like data and numbers, one useful source of information on energy is the "Statistical Review of World Energy" that comes out every year in June. Published by British Pretroleum (BP) it provides a great deal of information about energy production and consumption across the world. You can find the most recent one (published June 2011 and covering 2010) at this link.. Also at that link is historical data that one can download in an Excel spreadsheet. As we were discussion energy usage and energy policy yesterday in a Freshman seminar course I am teaching, I took the time to download it and to make a plot of historical trends in energy consumption vs. time (see below). You might notice the strong increase in Asia/Pacific use of energy, a more modest increase in the U.S. use of energy and a decrease and flattening of usage in Europe.
I'd also point out the flattening of use overall and the small decrease in use overall at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009 is what drove prices down during that brief period (see this link regarding that). If you read that link, you'll discover that
but that
At present production of both oil and gasoline are very closely matched to consumption needs and a few percentage point changes in consumption resulted in a very large change in prices at the pump. So, think about what that means when you look at the chart below and project into the future.
I'd also point out the flattening of use overall and the small decrease in use overall at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009 is what drove prices down during that brief period (see this link regarding that). If you read that link, you'll discover that
but that
At present production of both oil and gasoline are very closely matched to consumption needs and a few percentage point changes in consumption resulted in a very large change in prices at the pump. So, think about what that means when you look at the chart below and project into the future.