Gotta Sell - Need Advice

[Cassandra]

My husband and I have finally made the decision to sell our 1999 22' Cruiser and 2006 Magic Tilt trailer.

We are somewhat at odds about a couple of issues and need your help in sorting them out. The main one is whether to attempt to have the motor rebuilt, buy a used motor, or sell as is. The Honda 90 4-stroke motor had a few unfortunate run-ins with ethanol gas before we found out what the consequences would be.

The boat is sound, and has been cleaned inside and out but needs the gel coat refreshed - working on that now. The bottom has not been painted. My husband doesn't think that needs to be done before selling.

We (um, I) welcome any and all opinions about what to do in order to get the best return on this sizable investment - seeing as how it is not yet paid off!

As for the gel coat - will an automotive compounding product work better than the pricey specialty product for boats. The product I'm using is taking 3 hard scrubbing sessions for an 18" section and doesn't seem to have much grit in it - but maybe that's the safest way. My spindly little arms are tiring out and I've just begun. Should the (almost) white part be compounded and polished, too?

So, the big 3 are motor, gel coat, and painting the bottom. What would make the most sense to you?

 

[robhwa]

My husband and I have finally made the decision to sell our 1999 22' Cruiser and 2006 Magic Tilt trailer.

We are somewhat at odds about a couple of issues and need your help in sorting them out. The main one is whether to attempt to have the motor rebuilt, buy a used motor, or sell as is. The Honda 90 4-stroke motor had a few unfortunate run-ins with ethanol gas before we found out what the consequences would be.

The boat is sound, and has been cleaned inside and out but needs the gel coat refreshed - working on that now. The bottom has not been painted. My husband doesn't think that needs to be done before selling.

We (um, I) welcome any and all opinions about what to do in order to get the best return on this sizable investment - seeing as how it is not yet paid off!

As for the gel coat - will an automotive compounding product work better than the pricey specialty product for boats. The product I'm using is taking 3 hard scrubbing sessions for an 18" section and doesn't seem to have much grit in it - but maybe that's the safest way. My spindly little arms are tiring out and I've just begun. Should the (almost) white part be compounded and polished, too?

So, the big 3 are motor, gel coat, and painting the bottom. What would make the most sense to you?

C-Dory purchasers in general are going to do their research. Few will purchase a hull because it shines. Many would like to buy a bare hull and put the motor(s) of their choice on it. That is kind of what I intended, but wound up keeping the 2003 carburated Honda 90 for 6 years, and only reluctantly replaced it recently. After purchase, I worked through some issues, which wound up being resolved through use of several tanks of 100% gasoline with Sea Foam additive. I would think you're unlikely to recoup the purchase cost of a new or nearly-new used motor. If the hull is sound that is going to be the biggest positive. Appearance will likely be secondary. Polishing the FRP hull can make it look very nice, but I have no idea why you would want to paint the hull. What if the buyer intends to use it in freshwater or wants a different bottom paint?

 

[johnr]

Are you certain that you have to rebuild the motor...whatever that means? Otherwise, I agree with Rob above...other than I don't know how much you need to sell it for to pay off the loan. That might factor into my decision.

 

[localboy]

There is no easy, simple way to re-condition gelcoat. Even with a buffer it’s work and once buffed, has to be polished/waxed to protect it from the elements. I’ve used Meguiar’s Marine/RV Heavy Duty Oxidation Remover and it works well, but you have to do it properly or you’ll burn the gelcoat.

 

[forrest]

Whatever you put into the boat buying a new motor, you won't get out when you sell. Same with bottom paint.

 

[TyBoo]

Welcome, and sorry if it is short lived because you are selling but you can sure stick around if you like.

I agree with the comments about not recouping the cost of a repower. You say the problems with the older Honda were caused by the ethanol fuel. By rebuild do you mean just a cleaning and refreshing of the fuel system or has the engine been seriously damaged? If there are a lot of hours, like close to 2000 or so, it might be best to just leave it and sell as is. But if it would still run strong after refreshing the fuel system without major work on the inside of it then it might be worth it to fix.

I wouldn't worry about the bottom paint too much. The buyer can deal with that. My last repaint cost me $700 at a local boat yard but they are right next to my moorage and have a ramp with a cradle to pull the boat out of the water so it was probably cheaper than land based places. That was five years ago and as you will see in the pics I am about to post, it needs to be refreshed.

As for the gelcoat - I spent too many hours doing precisely what you are doing right now and my old arms aren't spindly but my shoulders won't let me do that anymore. I use a cheap (as in thirty five bucks at Home D) 6" orbital buffer and this stuff. It doesn't take much pressure with the buffer and the residue wipes off easily with microfiber towels.

Doing only the color stripe on the side took about a half hour to go from the first picture to the second. It certainly isn't boat show quality but it did the trick in the few days the boat was home getting repurposed from fishing to crabbing. The buffer will take the green stain at the water line off too.





Good luck!

 

[hardee]

I'm not here advocating bottom painting but I did have it done. It was the right choice for me. If I was in your shoes, I would not do it ESPECIALLY if it has not been done before. That is a choice the new owner should make and for some, having bottom paint might be a deal breaker.

But what I wanted to add is this. When I did have mine done, I had the bottom paint line raised WAY UP to just below that strake line where Mike's green water mark is, so that now, the stain, doesn't stain the white (actually off-white) gel on the topsides and at the bow it follows that strake line up so no tannin moustache from the brown water.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[san juanderer]

Todays marketplace is pretty good.
So much depends on condition, and what someone sees when they look at the boat.
Look at the 4 sale box and see what the price range is for a similar years and condition ( can vary a lot ). Could be 25 to upper 30's , depends so much on condition and what someone's eyes see. Less the cost for someone to buy a new motor, 10 to 13 thousand.
Let someone else buy the motor of there choice.

 

[kaelc]

I would just try discounting the boat by 5-6000 and try to sell as is. Ignore the high priced dreamers when figuring out that price, look at ones that sold of similar age and condition, options.

A used motor is only worth a 3-4000 so discounting for labour and new rigging is a good idea, but I would not discount it the cost of a new motor. If you can find a couple of screen prints of used motors to share with the prospective owners or better yet a local quote it might help with the uncertainty.

Finally learn about the Sunk cost theory in economics, don’t throw good money after bad to try to recover an investment.

Keep an eye on Facebook market place for a used engine and even post wanted in Facebook boat groups.

 

[thataway]

As noted, we need to know what the real condition of the motor is. How many hours? Has it had regular service? Does it run currently. Just using ethanol fuel should not make any difference to the mechanical part of the engine--only the fuel delivery system (Injectors/injector pump) or carburetors. It may only be new fuel hoses, filters, and squeeze bulb. If possible you want the engine running, without spending a lot of money. If you pay $500 to get the engine running that is better than taking a $5,000 hit for unknown condition of the engine.

If there are waterline stains low on the hull, something like "The Works" toilet bowl cleaner will take those stains out. (Be sure and wear gloves, and eye protection). Definitely a cheap buffer will make it much easier to do the compounding. Wren makes some for about $20. Although I have a number of project specific buffers, I often do detail work with a foam pad chucked into a battery powered drill.

Depending on how bad the oxidation of the fiberglass gel coat is, you can start with wet sanding up to 2,000 grit. Then a course cutting compound, a fine compound, then a cleaning compound, before starting the wax. This might give your a few hundred dollars more. Or just do a section to demonstrate that the gelcoat is good, but just needs some work. The badly oxidized boat is certainly a turn off, The buyer will also look for clean (upholstery, no stains or evidence of water leaks/mildew inside.

Do not paint the bottom. If there has been no bottom paint, that is a plus for many buyers.

Be sure trailer tires are less than 5 years old. Does the boat have a windlass, stove (type and brand), a Bimini top over the cockpit, and full enclosure (camper canvas)? What brand are the electronics, model and year?

Since you still have an outstanding loan, that can be an issue to a clean title. Be sure that you know the exact amount of the loan. It may be that the buyer will give the majority (or in some cases the entire payment) to the mortgage company. The second 22 I owned, I just payed off the lien, and took title without any further payment to the seller.

Without an engine and if everything else is good, then I would start in the $25,000 asking price range. With a new engine (hard to find currently) there will be at least another $10,000 cost to put in a new 90 hp. Although there are older "new" outboards for the $6,000 range, they often require installation at the dealers shop, and a substantial labor and rigging charge.

 

[Cassandra]

I so appreciate all the thoughtful and helpful advice and information. I'm on my own with this project since health issues have lessened my husband's involvement. I'd like to respond to some of the comments in case that prompts some more collective wisdom. First, the loan. We do hold clear title because the loan is a part of a home equity line of credit. My goal is to try to recoup in the neighborhood of $20 - 25K.

I do not know the real condition of the motor and will get it looked at right away. I've been told that ethanol "ruined it," but I hear some of you saying that is not necessarily the case.

The hull has been washed down pretty well. The interior is clean, mold and mildew free. All cushions are clean and I'm working on that faint aroma of age and humidity. I know a shiny hull won't make the sale, but I think it could tip the balance, especially if a couple is considering it and one of them happens to be swayed by clean and shiny.

I started the gel coat cleaning 3 days ago but was a bit afraid of sanding. How do I prevent sanding too deep? Combination of speed and pressure? I have a random orbital sander that I am using to clean off the compound. I'm using a compounding liquid made locally and it seems to be pretty good, but I decided to order the Meguiar's Power Cut Marine/RV Compound. Before I open it, has anyone used this? One of you recommended a different product, but I had already ordered the Meguiar's. I'll send it back if I get advice that it's not effective.

The dual axel trailer is in great shape, though it will need new tires and crank handle. There are coverings for all windows and door - some staining but otherwise sound; alcohol stove; sink; swim platform and ladder; Thetford potty; cushions in V-berth.

Does any of this information lead to a realistic ballpark range that I might shoot for?

 

[localboy]

The Maguiars will work. Do a small area at a time and not in the sun. There are “how to” videos on YouTube etc. I used a big, heavy buffer but a smaller DA random orbital type might work too and the chance of burning will be lessened. Wipe off residue with micro-fiber towels and then polish or wax.

https://youtu.be/8jrrPSjWTnc

I’d try it prior to sanding with wet paper. That takes proper technique and one had better know what they are doing; gelcoat is thin.

Good luck. I hope you get what you need out of it.

 

[TyBoo]

The Meguairs stuff is likely the same stuff as the brand I use, and probably even a little better. I think you will be pleased with the results.

 

[mikeporterinmd]

...
I do not know the real condition of the motor and will get it looked at right away. I've been told that ethanol "ruined it," but I hear some of you saying that is not necessarily the case.

Gas with Ethanol won't usually do dramatic damage to the engine. You may need to replace the fuel lines from the tanks to the to the motor, the gas lines in the motor and possibly rebuild the carbs. The ethanol can attack older fuel lines and cause them to degrade.

I'm not familiar enough with 1999 motors to know for sure what type of fuel lines they have (ie: were they made to withstand ethanol).

If you need to have the carbs rebuilt, a possible price is about $600. I just had mine done.

We have gotten water in the fuel before which you can tell pretty quickly because there will be dark, coffee colored liquid in the bottom of the tank and in the fuel lines if the motor was started (or attempted to start). The water interacts with the Ethanol which causes the separation. If that happens, you will need to remove the fuel from the tanks and replace with fresh fuel, possibly have the carbs rebuilt, etc. We can discuss all that, but first you need to know if you have this type of separation. We learned to keep Stabilizer and "the blue stuff", whose name I can't remember, in the gas at all times. If a small amount of water gets into the gas, this will prevent the separation issues.

In any case, you shouldn't need to replace a solid motor because of ethanol.

Mike

 

[robhwa]

We do hold clear title because the loan is a part of a home equity line of credit. My goal is to try to recoup in the neighborhood of $20 - 25K. I do not know the real condition of the motor and will get it looked at right away. I've been told that ethanol "ruined it," but I hear some of you saying that is not necessarily the case.

$20K would probably be a quick sell, at least on the west coast. If your goal is $25K, you might get close for just a good condition hull with trailer also in good condition. C-Dories aren't boats that shiny boat people are impressed by. If the tires are old (manufacture date is after the DOT numbers) and cracked the only investment you probably should make other than your time and having the motor looked at is to get good tires. For four that might run $400 for class C tires, which are OK for dual-axle. The boat will be towed away and you don't want to contribute to an accident.

A really old motor isn't going to be a big asset, even if it runs well. Most people won't trust it for serious boating. Older C-Dories are generally repowered. Ethanol gas sitting in it could affect seals and jets, but it is hard to imagine it being ruined. I bought mine with the idea that the old motor might be replaced right away, and was pleasantly surprised when it eventually ran well. Even with that, I don't think an old motor will be worth more than a couple thousand $ in the final price. Current motors are MUCH better in all respects.

 

[thataway]

A really old motor isn't going to be a big asset, even if it runs well.

Not sure what you categorize as a "really old motor". However I would have faith in a well maintained and tested 1999 Honda 90--enough to go offshores with the same precautions I would use for a new motor. These engines do have carburetors which are subject to the gumming up from use of ethanol laced fuel. Having a running motor certainly puts the boat in a different class than one with a motor which is known to ready for the scrap heap.

 

[kaelc]

If there is a member with a good sense of what 22 are worth why don’t you ask them to a FaceTime walk through with you of the boat and recommend what it is worth? I have a good sense of 25s since I own one and just bought my partner out, but no idea on 22.

Again, get a quote from a local tire place but I would not put more money into the boat. Lots of people still looking for 22’s and if they are from afar then it would be best if they invested in new tires and got the warranty if that’s what they want. This is my opinion.

If there is a good marine mechanic in your area ask them to provide a quote on rebuilding the carb and trying to get it running. I would give them a firm budget that you can afford if you go down that road of trying to fix it or get a diagnosis. A running boat is worth way more, but remember regardless the boat is in high demand right now.

I think the most important feature stand up height inside the cabin if it is a tall roof you have a bigger market but regardless you will have demand. I would consider listing it around 24,873 a number that is completely made up based on price recommendations so people do not low ball you but you could say based on C-dory “experts” who have knowledge of the cost of getting a C-dory in to top shape!

Remember the other 22’s for sale are over 40k right now so 25k is a good price for someone who might get the engine running or find an old 2 stroke for $3000 and have a great boat for the winter with a cabin!

 

[RileyDog]

I just bought a 22 Cruiser ... thank you Larry ... and have to say, they are in demand and a generous price for a structurally sound and basically clean 22 Cruiser is not out of the ball park.
I'd post a For Sale link right here on the Brats for $35k. Post a couple links to interior videos, with you describing the features. Be honest and point out flaws. See what happens.

If the boat shows clean, the engines are tuned and the videos show a clean interior, you have a product others are looking for. I just bought one, sight unseen, imported it from the states to canada and now my favorite project. You never know and ... don't spend too much time trying to get it just right. Someone else will be able to take it on and you can go back to dealing with your things.
Just my thoughts and hey, what do eye know other than now owning a classic beauty, it's all good

 

[robhwa]

A really old motor isn't going to be a big asset, even if it runs well.

Not sure what you categorize as a "really old motor". However I would have faith in a well maintained and tested 1999 Honda 90--enough to go offshores with the same precautions I would use for a new motor. These engines do have carburetors which are subject to the gumming up from use of ethanol laced fuel. Having a running motor certainly puts the boat in a different class than one with a motor which is known to ready for the scrap heap.

Bob; I hear you.

For most people, a 1999 Honda 90 is really old. However, if it was well kept, run regularly, and well maintained, it might last another 22 years easily. It doesn't sound like that was the case. My comment was on it's added value in this sale. Maybe I am wrong, but I think most people will not trust this motor until they use it substantially, running at sale time or not.

I have several "really old" gasoline motors of all sorts, one outboard over 50 years old, and two 70's Cruise-n-carry outboards (one 12 lbs) that I would never part with. However, like you, I am mechanically inclined and take some pride in keeping mechanical things going. My comments were to this asker for the added value a 1999 Honda 90 (probably with a few thousand hours of use) would add to a nice 1999 C-Dory hull with nice dual-axle trailer. The motor probably also sat unused a lot, which isn't a good thing.

A well kept C-Dory hull, on the other hand, is somewhat timeless and maybe worth more than it cost new in 1999.

I go fishing offshore in boats with old motors every year, but I wouldn't pay much for a 1999 Honda 90, running or not. I kept my original Honda 90 from my repower and will put it on my niece's crabbing boat in the Chesapeake Bay. Their 70's era Evinrude is worn out. I had 6 years of use and they may have many more. However, I just don't trust this proven trustworthy motor to take me to Alaska in future years and I believe my comment that the new Hondas are superior to the old ones is correct. I don't have data yet, but I think my fuel economy will improve, and I like having 35 amps charging (vs 17).

Therein lies my comment that the value is in the boat with trailer itself, and an old outboard is likely to add a few thousand $ at most, running or not. Maybe I am wrong on this, but I can't advise putting much $ into getting that motor running to increase the sale price.

 

[Peter & Judy]

My two cents worth on the motor. In my opinion a motor that does not run, whether this is on a boat or any other vehicle can only be priced at it's scrap metal value. I would personally take it to a mechanic for an estimate and if he thinks that he can get it running for $500-1000 or whatever your budget is, you may recoup your investment and make it easier to sell the boat. i wouldn't pump much more money into it. Talking from experience with old cars, they reach a point when they will nickel and dime you to death and you are money ahead to sell, than to fix. In this case with the boat, I would sell it as hull only if the motor cannot be fixed. Having a dead motor hanging off the back might actually lower the price of the boat, as opposed to having no motor at all.