Greetings and Head Question: How important is it?

G

gobdav@yahoo.com

New member
Greetings! I'm new here, although I've been lurking about for around 2yrs. No C-Dory yet, but it's a dream boat of mine and my family once we can afford it.

My question is: In selecting the proper boat, how important is the head/shower on the 25 vs. the 22? My wife thinks it's very important, make/break which I tend to believe, but I don't own a C-Dory so have no way of knowing.

Our preferred boating experience would consist of cruising around on the lake on weekends progressing into overnight trips and eventually the Great Loop when we retire. (we plan on having our boat for a LONG time.)

Considering the overnight trips, I think we would be using the head, and having one under our ACTUAL heads when we sleep might be an unpleasant experience. How important is the head in its own compartment vs. under the berth?
Thanks and I look forward to someday really joining your ranks.
 
You answered your own question: go with what your wife thinks.

I'm not being a smartass - if you want happy couple's cruising, you need a significant other who is totally onboard (pun intended). There are some folks who are fine with the porta-potty (we have used them over the years), but if your wife is totally opposed, you will be boating alone.

Folks here are probably tired of hearing me say this, but: the 25 is a LOT more than a 22 with an enclosed head. It is bigger, wider, taller, more storage, more amenities, and a better ride than the 22. It has a shower with hot and cold water supplied by a pressure pump. It is just more boat. That comes with a trade-off: it takes a bigger tow vehicle, since the 25 is at least a ton heavier than the 22.

Another significant feature of the 25: more elbow room. Two adults can pass by each other in the aisle. Yes, that, too, is a big deal. The cockpit is larger - important if you are going to put on a camperback and use that as an extra room.

When we went to look at the 22 and the 25 at the Seattle Boat Show (back when C-Dory had a significant presence there, with all their models on display), my wife looked at the 22 (my choice), then looked at the 25, and said, "This is the one," speaking of the 25. Of course, she was right. I was looking at the bucks, she was looking at spending more time aboard. While we had our CD-25, we spent up to 6 months at a time onboard. Every night.

That said, there are plenty of people who cruise with a 22. Successfully. And stay married.

If you think the port-potty is an issue, they are cheap to buy and you can try one at home or on a camping trip. Ask yourself this: would you stay in a motel that didn't have a toilet and shower? Would you do that for the months (or more) that it would take to travel The Loop?

Years ago (before the C-Dory), we had a couple sailboats. My boat was a high performance trimaran that would sleep 5. It had a separate head compartment, that used a porta-potty. We would shower with a solar shower or a propane shower out on the nets. It worked for us. My wife wanted another smaller boat that was easy to tow around - we bought a 17' catboat (not a catamaran) that had a small cabin; just enough for two berths, a cooler, and a porta-potty. Turns out we had more fun hauling that smaller boat all over. It was that boat that led us to the C-Dory. I knew we could handle the smaller accommodations of the 22... but the 25 really was better for us.

A couple of friends who were not boaters asked us about that catboat... "How do you two do in that small space, and how do you prepare for that?"

I told them: spend the weekend under your dining room table, with occasional trips to your back porch to use the porta-potty. If you can do the weekend and are still talking to each other, you can probably handle time aboard a small boat.

A C-Dory 22 is luxurious by comparison to that catboat (standing height in the cabin!!)... a CD-25 feels even more spacious by comparison.

Good luck with your decisions.

Jim
 
I find that my wife often makes far better decisions than I do. Although Marie did fine with the "Portipotty". She dd enjoy the enclosed head --and the use of a shower make cruising more comfortable.

Although at first we resisted using an "air head" composting toilet--it turned out it was a positive move and we enjoyed it.

Even for weekend use the composting toilet is better.

Get aboard each boat and see how you feel. Also get a ride if possible. The down side of the 25, is that you need a larger tow vehicle. The C Dory (any size) makes a great "camper" on the road. We usually stop in RV parks, but have used Walmart and Cracker Barrel parking lots, as well as the occasional rest stops.
 
Makes a lot of sense. I was just wondering if the benefit outweighed the cost. Now I think the benefit = the extra cost.

I like to tell people that, when my wife and I finally go on that Great Loop trip, it will be fantastic, and I probably won't make it back. :D
 
Depends on your wife. My wife was fine with the porta potti. Before we got the boat she used to like camping.

We seriously considered getting a 25 for a time. After weighing the pros and cons a lot we realized that the 22 suited us just fine.

The longest we stayed on it at a stretch was 3.5 weeks. If we were doing the Great Loop it might be a different story.
 
The benefits in the size of a 22 or 23 C-Dory are worth considering for the ease of towing, tow rig consideration and fuel economy both for the vessel while underway and while being towed. We use a camping privacy enclosure that easily sets up in the cockpit and use a sun shower unit for daily showers after heating water on the stove. We considered the purchase of a larger C-Dory but are pleased with the size of the 23 Venture. We have two porta-potty units that are easily stored in the forward cabin and are easy to move around the boat for desired use. We travel as a couple and so if you think you will be traveling with others onboard, you may wish to consider a large C-Dory with a separate enclosed head.
 
We prefer a full head for the cleanliness. If the budget allows an extra 25k then go for it. I also wanted an off shore capable boat and for the inside passage on the west coast, hence the 25.

I’ll do video of mine soon on YouTube channel
 
Gobdav,
We had a 22 for 10 years and learned from other C-Brats, that at night, to put the port-a-potty in the aft deck. We had the camper back with full curtains and screen, so we still had privacy. This was a game changer, from initially keeping the potty in the v-berth, during sleeping periods.
We had several friends with 25's, so we started getting the itch for more interior space...
After that we looked at a 26 and after walking through the boat, my wife went to the car, got her checkbook and wrote a check on the spot for the boat.
The 26 has a head compartment and this one had a composting toilet. No odor, no plumbing and hot water for the sink and shower as well. We love the boat and are more than willing to accept the compromises of a boat that takes a bigger vehicle to tow and burns a bit more fuel. This boat has also made it much more friendly to have the teen grandkids along for our adventure.
We miss the 22, but do not regret having a proper head and more interior room.
 
I would go with what makes your wife happy. I had the 22 for 10 years, and my wife was fine with the porta potti. And we are both rather large people, at 6' tall and not quite that wide, but we do eat. :mrgreen: We've owned our 25 now going into our third season. It has the enclosed head, which is nice, along with a little more room. But I loved the 22. I'm not sure if the trade off was all that worth it. I'm not convinced the ride in the 25 is any better than the 22. Along with the enclosed head, the other advantage is having more than twice the fuel capacity, which allows for extended cruising before needing to find a gas pump. However, the larger size also means more weight to tow, a bit higher slip fee when staying in most marinas, and a little more boat that becomes noticeable when trying to get into tight places. Oh, and in regards to towing, it's not just the weight, but that extra 3 feet of length is very noticeable driving into tight parking lots and service stations. My wife actually was more comfortable in the 22's cockpit, with higher gunnels due to the lower floor. This all being said, it really depends on how you plan to use the boat, and what you and your wife are more comfortable with. I'm still getting use to the 25, and as time goes on, I will get more experience with it. My wife is happy with having more space, but she was also fine with the 22. Now that I've had a 25, I might not be as happy going back to a 22. But the 22 is a very capable boat and we had no problem using it several weeks at a time. Colby
 
More thoughts on the head/porta potti. we had curtains in our 22, and at night we'd just put the porti potti at the back of the cabin. Use during the day just involved moving the center bunk, that was made for moving. With a MSD (toilet) in the 25, you have to find a pump out. Sometimes and easy find, but if you boat remotely, what to do when the head is full? Many have gone to a composting toilet. Personally I feel that requires a lot of work as well. The installation, need for a fan, etc. I'm not bad mouthing it, as I have yet to meet anyone that has one, regrets putting it in. I instead pulled the MSD out with it's 9 or 12 gal internal tank, and replaced it with another porti potti. The problem with showering in the stall with either the original MSD or a composite toilet, is you have to straddle it to take your shower. With the porta potti, I just move it from the head to somewhere out of the way, and then have full access to the small closet for showering. Others will shower in the cockpit, but then privacy concerns come up if you are in an anchorage with others. So there are trade offs to everything. For me, it's easier to find a place to dump the porti potti than it is to find a pump out. And I don't need to worry about mixing 1 and 2 into the wrong hole on the composite head... :mrgreen: Most folks that live full time on their boat or part of the year anyway, have 25's. However, there are a few that have used 22s for several months out of the year. I took my 22 to Alaska's Inside Passage and spent two months on it. With my wife along, the longest we've stayed on the 22 was 4 weeks. If the only reason you want a 25 is for an enclosed head, it may not be worth it. If you want the extra space, and the additional costs that go along with it, then the 25 is a nice boat. I would highly suggest to try getting a ride, spend a day, in each boat. Colby
 
colbysmith":8bv8gyci said:
... For me, it's easier to find a place to dump the porti potti than it is to find a pump out. ...
Click to expand...

For me this was the biggest reason for having a porta-potti. Where I used to boat mostly, finding a pump out would be going some distance out of the way. Having the porta-potti, I could just dump it at the house when we got home.

Also, if there was a malfunction of the toilet system, the whole thing can be replaced easily in about 30 seconds.
 
Thank you everyone for the detailed responses. We had to take a break from looking for a C-Dory due to life and finances coming up, but are gearing up to go looking again. I'll be weighing pro's/con's with the boss shortly.

One thing I didn't really put too much thought in was the extra weight and vehicle needed to pull it, as I wasn't aware there was a big difference. I'm going to visit the towing area of the forum and try to find a vehicle that can tow a 25 vs a 22 and see if my finances can allow buying something other than what I may have. Or weighing options on rentals/towing companies when I go on longer trips.

Being in East TN has its perks with lots of nice clean lakes, but I might look for a slip for the first year unless I can find a cheap-ish truck to pull it around.
 
Well, for towing a 25, some will say you need a 3/4 ton pickup. I tow mine just fine with a Ford F150 with the V8. This summer I made two trips out west over the Rockies! I do have electric brakes! (Electric over hydraulic).
 
Marine toilets, AKA 'heads', are are boon and a bane near land.

Initially concerned when I bought a CD 26 Venture, I ordered it
with a composting head. I happily never used it. Read on.

My prior experience, with several chartered boats then owned boats, was that
larger boats with "multiple heads", essentially offering seagoing comforts and
conveniences, were in truth multiple problems. Unless rather strictly oriented
to the vulnerabilities of a marine MSD, people tend to abuse them and complicate
the owner's plumbing maintenance chores exponentially.

How many signs have I seen a head sign, "Put nothing in this head you
haven't consumed first" that was ignored.

Then there are the regulations. An MSD (Marine Sanitation Device) is regulated
by law. Using a MSD, violate "overboard discharge", misuse your "Y valve" in
unapproved waters too close to shore, if caught, you're in trouble (Up Schit's
Creek) with the Law.

Not so with a bucket, which is not classified, and is not an MSD. Please ignore
the USCG data that a high % of recovered male deceased from the water had
their flies open.

I am not advocating polluting our precious waters. Rather, being conscious
of your elimination needs and performing same ashore rather onboard. I know
many of both genders disagree, butt, objections are mostly emotional and not
practical. Exceptions always exist.

All told, this is one of those 80/20 (bane/boon) things.

Aye.
 
I have towed a lot of boats in the last 65 or so years, with all sorts of vehicles up to a 42 foot RV towing a 22 or a 25.

The size and type of tow vehicle does make a difference. I towed 25's mostly with a 30' RV V 10, with beefed up transmission and frame for class IV hitch. The other was a 3/4 ton Diesel Excursion. Then more recently with a 1/2 ton Yukon XL, then a 3/4 tone diesel Pick up. Yes the 1/2 ton vehicles will tow, especially the newer ones like Colby has. But the 3/4 makes it safer and a better tow experience.

There are some good older pickups and large SUVs which will be great tow vehicles. Consider the 25 has having a tow weight closet to 7500 #, maybe up to 8500# depending on fuel, water and gear. The brakes are very important, and the Electric over hydraulic are a real plus on the larger boats. More modern trucks will get much better mileage. I had trucks in the past which got 8 miles per gallon when towing boats. More modern are in the 16 to up to 20 mpg.
 
You might want to consider a "dry flush" toilet such as a Laveo. Not composting, but disposal of the waste might be less unpleasent than a porta-potti and easier than finding a working pump out.

https://dry-flush.com/

The only question is how the authorities in some places will take it.

BTW, I have no experience with this toilet, just noting that it is a potential option.
 
Interesting points and a huge thanks to you for making them. It gives me hope that I can tow the 25 with a F-150 but I'll definitely be cognizant of the type of brakes, transmission, and engine. I think I might focus on getting a slip at first. Lot's of waterways in TN that I can explore for the first year or so. I just don't know if I can afford a huge truck and a 25.

This middle-class teacher/firefighter combo has larger dreams than our pockets, lol.

I wish I had an opportunity to get on one, but we're in an area that has lots of boats, just not types like these. I read all these posts to the wife and she definitely thinks the 25 is worth it. She doesn't want to deal with me having an "emergency" somewhere on the water. And when we buy something, we keep it for a LONG time, so if we buy a C-Dory, we don't plan on selling it until its run aground. We will go with the 25 then find a way to tow it.

Now just gotta find one we can afford!
 
Dave, there is a gathering of C-Dorys at Prizer Point Marina on Lake Barkley at Land Between the Lakes, the first week of October, if you can get there. I'll have my 25 and hopefully there will be a showing of 22's and Tomcats. Colby
 
Marie (Wife/Admiral) and I will be at this gathering, at least unless something stops us. You may want to have your wife talk with Marie about selection of boats (I have to admit she likes the Tom Cat the best, but I will clue her in about the 25!. Although Gigi's experience is limited, she will be happy to clue any other canines about the advantages of the C Dory 25.

We will be in our RV, (25' "A" type on a Sprinter Chassis at the camp ground, but on the waterfront.
 
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