Handling a C-Dory in Rough Seas

B

BobArrington

New member
We are about to take delivery of our new 22C in a few weeks and as I have shared our purchase with many boating friends I am regularly asked about the boat and when the description of the hull is discussed I am frequently asked how that flat bottom is going to handle the steep short chop of the back bays and sounds where we will be using her.

A little history: I live in Baltimore and do much of my boating in the Chesapeake Bay aboard our 44' motoryacht. Our 22C is going to be kept at a second home in North Carolina and will be used to explore the Pamlico Sound from its rivers out to the Outer Banks of NC. The Chesapeake Bay and Pamlico Sound are simular in that they are large shallow open bodies of water where waves stack up quickly.

All of my expierience on planning hull boats in our type of conditions (close steep seas) has steered me towards boats with a transom deadrise of at least 15 degrees to soften the entry. Boats I have run with a flat bottom pound hard in these conditions.

I raised this issue with the dealer (who also sells deep vee center consoles) when looking at the boat because he certainly knows our waters and he said he would rather be in a C-Dory in rough conditions then any other boat he sells. He said the key is understanding the hull, learning how to trim it and managing the speed.

As I have mentioned in previous postings it is largly your groups experience that confirmed our decision to purchase this boat, but my decision is nagged by the sideways looks I get when I discuss the design with fellow boaters that aren't familiar with the brand.

I would love the benefit of all of your experiences to answer these questions when I'm asked if I'm crazy for buying this kind of boat for these kinds of waters.

Thank you,
 
Your dealer is right Bob, the secret is speed and trim, even in the ones with more "V". But when it really gets rough, everybody has to slow down or take a beating. The advantage of the C-Dory is its ability plane at a slower speed.

The other plus is planning means fuel effciency and that is an important factor when you have to go a long way in rough water, particularly with a time limit.

These boats do "thump" more than others in chop, but you simply slow down. This lets you enjoy the trip and reduces noise which means fatigue.

Happy boating,

John
 
If you run the boat fast in heavy chop it will pound.. So will a 15 degree dead rise. To get away from pounding you either have to slow down, change angle of attack or increase deadrise to well over 20 degrees--like a Contender 23 with 24 degree deadrise. With a boat which has high deadrise, it has a higher planing speed. The C Dory, bow trimmed down will be semiplaning/ planing at 10 knots, and you can handle the chop.
 
Bob:

Listen to your dealer: he knows what he's talking about.

I've boated the waters you describe with our C-Dory 22 Cruiser for the last three years, including the Neuse river up to New Bern, the Pamlico and Albemarle Sounds, side creeks, Oriental (got to love that ice cream and free dingy dock tieup), Morehead City, Beaufort, Ocracoke, Lookout Bight, and some offshore. Although the right center console will cut through some rough water that makes the C-Dory slow way down, the last boat I would have wanted for these experiences is a center console. When's the last time you saw someone cook and eat a meal, sleep overnight in all weather, and enjoy a rain storm on a center console?

You made the right decision. Relax, and enjoy it.

david
 
Way back when B~C was actually using his boat for fishing he was fond of pointing out how the Vee guys would pass him as he headed out toward the Columbia River bar but he would invariably pass the same ones when they were on the bar.

I have always maintained that a C-Dory will not pound unless you let it. Trim tabs, common sense loading and picking the right speed are the keys. Warm and dry makes the slower speed easy to take. When you get into conditions that make both hulls slow way down, the flat bottom is actually more stable and easier to control than the deep vee.
 
TyBoo":3w31rlqc said:
I have always maintained that a C-Dory will not pound unless you let it.
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I almost agree with you TyBoo. Thats been the case for us, especially with trim tabs except for a couple time heading into the wind on yellowstone lake. In those 5' straight up and down waves we couldn't go slow enough not to have the bottom drop out from under us. I guess that would be called pounding. Afterwords it sure felt like we'd been pounded. We had a deep v fly by us and I mean that literaly. At times the boat was clear of the water. I imagine they were being pounded too.

Even so you still might be right about the "let it" quote. I guess we could have turned around and quartered off OK and made it back to a lee.

Jay
 
Long, powerful, deep-V boats can blow by you. But, eventually, ever deep V
will meet its match, and then it's no fun at all. Plus, you are burnings lots
of gas (mpg) at the slow speeds.

Mike
 
This is my 8th trailerable powerboat, all but this one and one other (Crestliner 19) were a deep-vee. I've been in fairly large seas (8-12ft) with my C-Dory and several of the others. I can say emphatically that this boat is hands down, beyond compare, the most stable and controllable in these conditions. If you try to stay just on that edge of planing in a deep-vee, say 14-16 knots to try and make time, you will likely fall into a wave occasionally that will whip the bow violently to the side as it digs into it slightly skewed -- especially in a following seas. This has launched numerous passengers across the cabin (the captain having the advantage of a steering wheel to hang onto!). Very dangerous situation, including possibly broaching the boat.

On the C-Dory's however, you can slow to 10 or so knots, maintain an easy plane (and if enough power available, not really have to touch the throttle much), get back safely and more alert (not fatigued). This boat is a keeper for me...! :thup
 
Dora~Jean":22kqfl1e said:
This is my 8th trailerable powerboat, all but this one and one other (Crestliner 19) were a deep-vee. I've been in fairly large seas (8-12ft) with my C-Dory and several of the others. I can say emphatically that this boat is hands down, beyond compare, the most stable and controllable in these conditions. If you try to stay just on that edge of planing in a deep-vee, say 14-16 knots to try and make time, you will likely fall into a wave occasionally that will whip the bow violently to the side as it digs into it slightly skewed -- especially in a following seas. This has launched numerous passengers across the cabin (the captain having the advantage of a steering wheel to hang onto!). Very dangerous situation, including possibly broaching the boat.

On the C-Dory's however, you can slow to 10 or so knots, maintain an easy plane (and if enough power available, not really have to touch the throttle much), get back safely and more alert (not fatigued). This boat is a keeper for me...! :thup
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Fatigue is the most noticable difference of all. I've stepped off mine after 7 days with less fatigue than I'd have after a 1/2 day on the open Whalers. This is just a much better way to boat.
 
Here in the Gulf of Mexico with any chop at all, it would be VERY uncomfortable to attempt to plane in a 22, full displacement speeds with the bow trimmed down as far as possible is the way to go.

5-7 kts unless you like having the crap beat at of you.

cannot speak for offshore, don't run there.

James
 
There's many people more qualified than I to talk about the advantage and way to handle a flat bottom boat but, the one thing rarely discussed is how stable it is when stop on the water, enjoying the day in the cockpit moving about without the boat radically rolling with the weight shifting around.
 
A few years ago I made a list of all the Pro's and Con's of a dory bottom vs a deep-vee. It surprised me A LOT. Had this long list 10+ items regarding stability, handling, fatigue, weight, hp req'd, gas mileage, minimum planing speed, comfort at anchor, etc, etc, ...then 1 item on the Con side, if I remember correctly, you gotta slow down in heavy chop. That's it. Turns out that too is a plus due to less fatigue and just a more pleasant experience.

I say, why be in a hurry to get OFF the water?
 
Flagold,

I think you hit it on the fatigue issue. I've been out fishing for 8 hours on a 28 foot Jetcraft, and when we got to the beach you were tired. I've been out for 5 days on my 22 and the only thing I wanted to do when reaching the beach was take on gas, food, and water and go back out.

Tom
 
Yep, that was really driven home for me on the way back from Ft. Meyers. I crossed Tampa Bay in gathering winds, it was rolly-polly coming across and some of the deep v's were sledding past, occupants with gritted teeth, and in rain gear from all the spray (and it was turning cold (again -- Thank God for Global Warming -- we can't take much more freezing down here) and I was thinking how fortunate I was to be in a cabin, with a heater going, watching them take the beating of their lives, all while I'm catching up on the 6 pm news (on TV). Next day, the forcast was for seas to build by 2 pm to 5-7 and many might not think anything of this, but the flats we cross are an average 3 foot depth, and the danger here is the same as on Lake Okeechobee, getting scooped on top and being deposited on the bottom which of course, breaks your boat bottom out (or the next wave floods you). As noted above, there are periods between the waves on our flats, you just don't notice them because you get hit with a solid bam bam bam type situation. Anyway, I sheltered at a nice little harbor with a McDonalds and Publix grocery and took off in the morning. Once I passed Anclote Key, I was the only boat on the water (not a real good sign normally), but never felt in danger in any way. Just plodded 10 mph on up to the Hernando channel and the winds hit full force as I turned the corner. Couldn't compare any deep v's since they didn't go out that day . . .
 
flagold":48u2y1xe said:
Wave height 1/4 hull length or greater -- stay home -- not worth the pounding your equipment will take.

MM
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I saw this quote from an earlier discussion and wanted to tie it to a weather report for the San Juans : ...SE WIND 15 TO 25 KT...BECOMING SW 10 TO 20 KT IN THE EVENING. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT.
Based on the pounding C-Dancer took this weekend with the report showing 6 FT. waves it didnt sound too fun.

Would most folks be comfortable being out in 4 ft waves in a boat greater than 16' ?

Tom
 
tom&shan":rhjjdzv9 said:
flagold":rhjjdzv9 said:
Wave height 1/4 hull length or greater -- stay home -- not worth the pounding your equipment will take.

MM
Click to expand...
I saw this quote from an earlier discussion and wanted to tie it to a weather report for the San Juans : ...SE WIND 15 TO 25 KT...BECOMING SW 10 TO 20 KT IN THE EVENING. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT.
Based on the pounding C-Dancer took this weekend with the report showing 6 FT. waves it didnt sound too fun.

Would most folks be comfortable being out in 4 ft waves in a boat greater than 16' ?

Tom
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Depends on the shape and period and your direction of travel relative to the waves.

4' swells not too close together are fun. 4' breaking waves, not.

The above forecast does not sound too good. It would depend on the area,
and whether the wind had a long fetch over the area I was traveling, etc.
Islands? Which side will I be on?

Mike
 
Tom,
Based on our experience this past weekend, there is no way that we should have gone out there under those conditions. The only reason we went ahead with it had to do with the excitement of the derby, the real possibility of catching a nice fish and the fact we paid for the opportunity via derby tickets, which weren't cheap. The reality struck early Saturday morning when the winds started gusting, that no fish is worth our safety. That's why we headed in early. Nearly all of the other fisherman, over 200 boats, stayed out much later and all had an experience they won't soon forget and wouldn't want to repeat anytime soon. However we didn't escape the risk because we were stuck at the marina and eventually had to head back to Twin Bridges where the real "fun" began.

So, if I had to do it all over again, I would have heeded the forecast for high winds over 20 mph and ate the derby ticket price because in actuality, the winds were much stronger than 20 mph. Reports in the area were winds in the 50-60 mph range. But to answer your question, waves from to 3-4 feet are uncomfortable but doable and not uncommon. Waves over 4 feet become quite uncomfortable in our 22 footer. My advice, stay home.
Peter
 
Good advice, Peter. When we get caught in rough conditions (rare, since we try to heed forecasts), we head for a protected cove at about 5-6 knots, hold on through the chop, then drop the hook, and kick back with a warm cuppa and a good read.
 
El and Bill":avmt1zi3 said:
Good advice, Peter. When we get caught in rough conditions (rare, since we try to heed forecasts), we head for a protected cove at about 5-6 knots, hold on through the chop, then drop the hook, and kick back with a warm cuppa and a good read.
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Exactly. One of the great joys of a CD-22 can also be a limited liability and that is for those of us who travel with and in them you've got all your items of day to day life with you. All that stuff banging around and taking a beating just isn't worthwhile to get out in a blow to me. If your boat is set up to fish and you're a crash and dasher, that's fine, but the older I get the less and less that kind of thing appeals to me, and a cracked lower vertabrae doesn't help (which came from pounding in a Whaler).

I fully recommend pulling in, pulling over, beaching, whatever, and waiting it out. The perfect time to get all your cabin chores and projects done.
 
Another factor, which relates to Mike's post, is the direction of the current and wind driven waves. Wind against current makes steep waves, wind with current makes long peroid of waves. Not only do you want to evaluate the current comditions, but also look and see what the current will do--espeically in an area like the PNW where currents can be very strong.

I have taken the C Dory 22 out in some 6 foot seas, and run slowly-- But when you are parallel to the seas, you can come up in speed, and at times tack--working around rough areas and using headlands and other areas which produce a lee to your advantage.
 
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