I am going to put some sort of hard top on my 22. What I'm envisioning is something covering the forward half of the cockpit with removal canvas on the sides to the gunwales and angling down in the rear to the splashwell. I want some rain protection and storage on top and dislike a normal bimini type set up because you need either hard supports or straps in the rear which always seem to be in the way when fishing. I've certainly not worked out all the details yet, just some ideas bouncing around in my head. Has anyone else made a permanent hardtop? Does anyone see any pitfalls that I've overlooked?
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Hard Top
- Thread starter Bearbait
- Start date
OK folks We new to the Cbrats family and don't even own one yet but we are looking!! Now don't beat me up with this suggestion, but has anyone ever thought about putting a small flying/command bridge on a CDory? I realize that this is changing the over all look of the boat but it is sure nice when the weather is good to be able to enjoy the sunshine. I have owned other 22-26' boats with the same beam as a CDory that have had flying/command bridges without problems. Any thoughts??
Bearbait-
This is one of those projects that I've had quietly on the back burner with a number of others, some of which are so befuddlingly difficult that they go unmentioned!
But this need is real! A hardtop free of under structure that provides some sun and rain protection while not making a mess out of the open cockpit fishing configuration...worthy of considerable thought!
I think it should be molded into the athwartships curve of the roof for aesthetic reasons.
It should be made of layers of rigid plastic, fiberglass, or fiberglassed plywood, and can be built/laminated to the desired curve by constructing it on the roof one layer at a time.
The composite thickness of the layers will give it some of the desired strength, but the full stiffness for storage purposes will require some rigid ribs, either on top of or underneath the roof. Space considerations would probably require the struts on the top.
Perhaps wooden handrails on top of somewhat flatter wooden ribs would be good looking, appropriate stylewise, and provide significant stiffness when all laminated together. The more they are raised (within aesthetic reason). the stronger they will be, and the greater the cargo carrying and box-in/tie-down effect will be.
Deciding how far back to extend the roof will have to be based on a reasonable compromises between 1) fishing access, 2) the amount of desired weather protection, 3) storage area desired, and 4) structural limitations. Best here to get in the boat with a set of yardsticks and tapes and figure it out in 3-D real time/space.
Other important considerations will be how much to extend the cover/roof outward sideways or athwartships to get the width wider than the narrow center portion of the raised roof. Some form of cut-out on either side to permit easy entry into the boat may have to be made if the cover extends out sideways to the gun whales. Maybe even a hinged cut-out would be in order to allow access while preserving full athwartships protection.
There are lots of choices here, both in design considerations for function and engineering strength. I'd do quite a bit of thinking, especially onboard where I could see the real effect of dimensions on functionality, then build a simple mock up full-size in cardboard to get the shape right, then figure out how to build the strength into it.
A really well designed unit would be a great addition to the home built projects available here on this site, and could even be copied for commercial production with appropriate modifications for easy reproduction.
Another fun project! Good Luck! Joe.
This is one of those projects that I've had quietly on the back burner with a number of others, some of which are so befuddlingly difficult that they go unmentioned!
But this need is real! A hardtop free of under structure that provides some sun and rain protection while not making a mess out of the open cockpit fishing configuration...worthy of considerable thought!
I think it should be molded into the athwartships curve of the roof for aesthetic reasons.
It should be made of layers of rigid plastic, fiberglass, or fiberglassed plywood, and can be built/laminated to the desired curve by constructing it on the roof one layer at a time.
The composite thickness of the layers will give it some of the desired strength, but the full stiffness for storage purposes will require some rigid ribs, either on top of or underneath the roof. Space considerations would probably require the struts on the top.
Perhaps wooden handrails on top of somewhat flatter wooden ribs would be good looking, appropriate stylewise, and provide significant stiffness when all laminated together. The more they are raised (within aesthetic reason). the stronger they will be, and the greater the cargo carrying and box-in/tie-down effect will be.
Deciding how far back to extend the roof will have to be based on a reasonable compromises between 1) fishing access, 2) the amount of desired weather protection, 3) storage area desired, and 4) structural limitations. Best here to get in the boat with a set of yardsticks and tapes and figure it out in 3-D real time/space.
Other important considerations will be how much to extend the cover/roof outward sideways or athwartships to get the width wider than the narrow center portion of the raised roof. Some form of cut-out on either side to permit easy entry into the boat may have to be made if the cover extends out sideways to the gun whales. Maybe even a hinged cut-out would be in order to allow access while preserving full athwartships protection.
There are lots of choices here, both in design considerations for function and engineering strength. I'd do quite a bit of thinking, especially onboard where I could see the real effect of dimensions on functionality, then build a simple mock up full-size in cardboard to get the shape right, then figure out how to build the strength into it.
A really well designed unit would be a great addition to the home built projects available here on this site, and could even be copied for commercial production with appropriate modifications for easy reproduction.
Another fun project! Good Luck! Joe.
Nancy H, I looked through the albums for hardtops but seemed to have missed yours, thanks. Is the roof fiberglass over plywood. Thanks for your thoughts Joe. You're right this will require lots of figuring and compromises to get all the features I want and not cause problems in other areas. I'll probably start on this in the Fall and then ignore it until I have to finish it at midnight before I use the boat in the Spring. I love starting projects but finishing them has proven problematic at times.
Nancy H, et all;
I find the idea of a hard top (extension) interesting and full of all kinds of possibilities for either the CD22 or CD25. The Rosborough Sedan Cruiser RF246 added that feature and it was/is a great success from all the reading I have done on their web page.
The questions I raise are:
(1) What will be the affect of the added windage?
(2) What will the added weight do to the center of bouyancy,
especially if a flying bridge were placed on the 'roof'?
(3) What weight handling ability is required?
Sea Angel
I find the idea of a hard top (extension) interesting and full of all kinds of possibilities for either the CD22 or CD25. The Rosborough Sedan Cruiser RF246 added that feature and it was/is a great success from all the reading I have done on their web page.
The questions I raise are:
(1) What will be the affect of the added windage?
(2) What will the added weight do to the center of bouyancy,
especially if a flying bridge were placed on the 'roof'?
(3) What weight handling ability is required?
Sea Angel
Since I haven't gotten the pictures online I thought I would give an idea for the masses. The "extension" on the 27 is made of fiberglass in the same shape/style as the top and is 3 feet long and 18" above the cabin top. There are 3 windows on the front that look like the windsheild. On the 27 the top is basically a flat arc so this is a pretty simple addition.
It would seem to me that one could purchase a cabin top from C-Dory (if they would make one for you) and shorten it to the appropriate length and then mount it on a "bulkhead" in a similar fashion with verticle posts to hold up the back of the extension. In this way the same lines of the boat will be kept but the extended area will be very functional. Especially if you have a drivers station on the aft cabin bulkhead.
It would seem to me that one could purchase a cabin top from C-Dory (if they would make one for you) and shorten it to the appropriate length and then mount it on a "bulkhead" in a similar fashion with verticle posts to hold up the back of the extension. In this way the same lines of the boat will be kept but the extended area will be very functional. Especially if you have a drivers station on the aft cabin bulkhead.
Bearbait,
My roof is made of 6mm Ockume plywood with 4 oz fiberglass cloth set in epoxy. The side rails are 1 3\4" tall by 3\4" wide fir lumber.
I found that 6 ft wide was a good compromise. At rest the water runs forward and down the cabinside, At speed the water runs aft.
Planning where the rain will run off the roof and where it will go is a challenge.
My roof is made of 6mm Ockume plywood with 4 oz fiberglass cloth set in epoxy. The side rails are 1 3\4" tall by 3\4" wide fir lumber.
I found that 6 ft wide was a good compromise. At rest the water runs forward and down the cabinside, At speed the water runs aft.
Planning where the rain will run off the roof and where it will go is a challenge.
Jimbo,
The problems with a flybridge on a 22 are several.
The roof itself may not support people standing. The weight of people on the roof will make the boat roll more and may be unstable. (Don't be up there when a large wake catches you abeam.) Then there is the extra weight and complication of a second set of controls and steering.
Just my $.02.
The problems with a flybridge on a 22 are several.
The roof itself may not support people standing. The weight of people on the roof will make the boat roll more and may be unstable. (Don't be up there when a large wake catches you abeam.) Then there is the extra weight and complication of a second set of controls and steering.
Just my $.02.
Jimbo, Gary, and all-
C-Dory made a custom C-D 26 Pro Angler with a flying bridge a few years ago, but couldn't seem to sell the single prototype and finally wound up taking it back to the factory and removing the flying bridge and then finally selling it. Try putting "26 Pro Angler" in the search engine and see what you can find. Bill (DaNag) had a whole series of photos of the boat available at one time.
I think most folks here don't see the need for a flying bridge on a boat the size of the 22 or 25, and feel the modifications to the lines of the boats and the necessary additional controls not worth the effort. There are serious stability issues about adding that much weight up that high on the boat as well. CaptainD did add a cargo rack and roof seat to his 22 for sighting fish, but hasn't yet posted photos of the set up as fully completed or in action. For a laugh, look in Dogon Dory's album, page 1, first photo, for a moose hunter's answer to the flying bridge/crow's nest option.
The CD-22 and 25 can handle the weight and windage of a moderate roof extension as evidenced by Larry H's great design. In fact , the extra rear windage is useful in steading the boat and preventing excessive wandering at anchor, especially with the side curtains up. Take a good long look at his design in his album as shown on page one and then on pages 4 and 5 where the details are shown. Lots of great ideas and execution! The only real changes one would have to make as far as the discussion has gone would be to shorten it (for fishing) and make the rear struts as non-obtrusive as possible, which might be a lot easier in the long run than trying to make it strong enough without rear supports.
Larry- with the roof level raised as much as it is, is getting in and out of the boat much of an issue?
Keep the wheels turning, it's fun and takes time to sort it all out! Joe.
C-Dory made a custom C-D 26 Pro Angler with a flying bridge a few years ago, but couldn't seem to sell the single prototype and finally wound up taking it back to the factory and removing the flying bridge and then finally selling it. Try putting "26 Pro Angler" in the search engine and see what you can find. Bill (DaNag) had a whole series of photos of the boat available at one time.
I think most folks here don't see the need for a flying bridge on a boat the size of the 22 or 25, and feel the modifications to the lines of the boats and the necessary additional controls not worth the effort. There are serious stability issues about adding that much weight up that high on the boat as well. CaptainD did add a cargo rack and roof seat to his 22 for sighting fish, but hasn't yet posted photos of the set up as fully completed or in action. For a laugh, look in Dogon Dory's album, page 1, first photo, for a moose hunter's answer to the flying bridge/crow's nest option.
The CD-22 and 25 can handle the weight and windage of a moderate roof extension as evidenced by Larry H's great design. In fact , the extra rear windage is useful in steading the boat and preventing excessive wandering at anchor, especially with the side curtains up. Take a good long look at his design in his album as shown on page one and then on pages 4 and 5 where the details are shown. Lots of great ideas and execution! The only real changes one would have to make as far as the discussion has gone would be to shorten it (for fishing) and make the rear struts as non-obtrusive as possible, which might be a lot easier in the long run than trying to make it strong enough without rear supports.
Larry- with the roof level raised as much as it is, is getting in and out of the boat much of an issue?
Keep the wheels turning, it's fun and takes time to sort it all out! Joe.
Joe,
We don't have any problem getting in and out of the cockpit. Depending on the person, it could be a problem.
I would recommend a 'mock up' of plastic pipe or wood strips to determine the width and height of the roof.
For those looking at my photos, I rebuild the roof 2 years ago, so the roof in the second photo is a little shorter than the original.
We don't have any problem getting in and out of the cockpit. Depending on the person, it could be a problem.
I would recommend a 'mock up' of plastic pipe or wood strips to determine the width and height of the roof.
For those looking at my photos, I rebuild the roof 2 years ago, so the roof in the second photo is a little shorter than the original.
hello
i installed a 7 ft wide.....42 inch deep aluminium roof exrension on a 22 angler on may 15th with the help of dave (owner of "cute-c) at his home on vancouver island, b.c. , canada.
IT IS 0NE EIGTH ALUMINUM SHEETING WITH ONE INCH TUBING, AND IS VERY STRONG AND STABLE.....AND MEANT TO HOLD A DIGHY AND GIVE RAIN AND SUN PROTECTION.
A WELDER FRIEND FABRICATED IT IN 6 HOURS AT A COST OF $200 CANADIAN.......BUT THE MATERIALS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE ($450 )
TOTAL BILL IN U.S. DOLLERS ABOUT $500
THE EXTENSION IS HIGHER THAN THE FIBERGLASS ROOF (ABOUT 8 INCHES).....AND CURVED TO FOLLOW THE C-DORY ROOF LINE
THE SUPPORTS ARE ANGLED BACK TOWARD THE CABIN AND ARE OUT OF THE WAY FOR BOARDING OR........LANDING THOSE BIG SPRINGS AND HALIBUT WE HAVE UP HERE IN GOD'S COUNTRY.
A CANVASS TOP IS NOW BEING INSTALLED FROM THE STERN END OF THE EXTENSION TO THE REAR OF THE BOAT.
THE ALUMINUM WELDS STILL NEED WIRE BRUSHING AND THE ROOF UNDERSIDE TO BE TEXTURE SPRAY PAINTED (ABOUT $5 FOR AN AIRESOL CAN)
THE PICS CAN BE VIEWED IN BOMBERO PHOTO ALBUM
THIS MAY NOT BE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.....BUT IT MAY HELP SOME FOLKS WITH IDEAS.
THE FRAME IS THE THING (ONE INCH ALUM TUBING)
....THE ALUMINUM SHEETING ON THE ROOF COULD BE PLYWOOD......FIBERGLASS....OR PLASTIC
CHEERS
ROB ( BOMBERO
i installed a 7 ft wide.....42 inch deep aluminium roof exrension on a 22 angler on may 15th with the help of dave (owner of "cute-c) at his home on vancouver island, b.c. , canada.
IT IS 0NE EIGTH ALUMINUM SHEETING WITH ONE INCH TUBING, AND IS VERY STRONG AND STABLE.....AND MEANT TO HOLD A DIGHY AND GIVE RAIN AND SUN PROTECTION.
A WELDER FRIEND FABRICATED IT IN 6 HOURS AT A COST OF $200 CANADIAN.......BUT THE MATERIALS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE ($450 )
TOTAL BILL IN U.S. DOLLERS ABOUT $500
THE EXTENSION IS HIGHER THAN THE FIBERGLASS ROOF (ABOUT 8 INCHES).....AND CURVED TO FOLLOW THE C-DORY ROOF LINE
THE SUPPORTS ARE ANGLED BACK TOWARD THE CABIN AND ARE OUT OF THE WAY FOR BOARDING OR........LANDING THOSE BIG SPRINGS AND HALIBUT WE HAVE UP HERE IN GOD'S COUNTRY.
A CANVASS TOP IS NOW BEING INSTALLED FROM THE STERN END OF THE EXTENSION TO THE REAR OF THE BOAT.
THE ALUMINUM WELDS STILL NEED WIRE BRUSHING AND THE ROOF UNDERSIDE TO BE TEXTURE SPRAY PAINTED (ABOUT $5 FOR AN AIRESOL CAN)
THE PICS CAN BE VIEWED IN BOMBERO PHOTO ALBUM
THIS MAY NOT BE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.....BUT IT MAY HELP SOME FOLKS WITH IDEAS.
THE FRAME IS THE THING (ONE INCH ALUM TUBING)
....THE ALUMINUM SHEETING ON THE ROOF COULD BE PLYWOOD......FIBERGLASS....OR PLASTIC
CHEERS
ROB ( BOMBERO
Seawolf,
What I am talking about is NOT a flying bridge. It is a raised extension of the cabin roof. Basically instead of having a camper back you would extend the roof back a couple feet to be able to get out of the rain. In fact a camper back could be mounted to the back of this to finish off covering the cockpit.
What I am talking about is NOT a flying bridge. It is a raised extension of the cabin roof. Basically instead of having a camper back you would extend the roof back a couple feet to be able to get out of the rain. In fact a camper back could be mounted to the back of this to finish off covering the cockpit.
Gary- Sorry for the misunderstanding! The raised and extended roof sounds like a fine idea! Have you talked to the factory about getting a factory roof section yet?
Rob- A very sound looking extension/roof cover! Be sure to post some pictures of it after it gets painted! BTW: What's the metal box attached to the starboard rear cabin bulkhead window? Heater? Evaporative cooler?
Larry- Thanks for the response! Dealing with the rain runoff would be something that many might forget about in the planing. In a real downpour, it would probably just run off the lowest nearby point no matter how clever one's scheme for the flow! I like your project a lot!!!
Crazily enough, as a short term solution to this project, last summer I installed a PVC tube in a vertically turned up fishing rod holder at the slightly off center rear edge of the cockpit/motor well and put a six foot+ umbrella in it! Works great for shade and provides some protection from rain and can be collapsed to avoid wind problems when incurred from the weather or traveling. Also folds up, lifts out, and stows easily, is cheap, and doesn't require drilling any more holes or permanently altering the boat at all! The one single post is also manageable when fishing, at least for smaller species. It also adds some windage rearward which helps balance the boat's forward windage imbalance and therefore helps turn the boat into the wind better at anchor and reduce overswing.
I'll replace it with a permanent solution when I can find one that fits my needs and is good looking enough to not affect the looks or resale value of the boat.
Good luck to all who are working on this endeavor! Joe.
Rob- A very sound looking extension/roof cover! Be sure to post some pictures of it after it gets painted! BTW: What's the metal box attached to the starboard rear cabin bulkhead window? Heater? Evaporative cooler?
Larry- Thanks for the response! Dealing with the rain runoff would be something that many might forget about in the planing. In a real downpour, it would probably just run off the lowest nearby point no matter how clever one's scheme for the flow! I like your project a lot!!!
Crazily enough, as a short term solution to this project, last summer I installed a PVC tube in a vertically turned up fishing rod holder at the slightly off center rear edge of the cockpit/motor well and put a six foot+ umbrella in it! Works great for shade and provides some protection from rain and can be collapsed to avoid wind problems when incurred from the weather or traveling. Also folds up, lifts out, and stows easily, is cheap, and doesn't require drilling any more holes or permanently altering the boat at all! The one single post is also manageable when fishing, at least for smaller species. It also adds some windage rearward which helps balance the boat's forward windage imbalance and therefore helps turn the boat into the wind better at anchor and reduce overswing.
I'll replace it with a permanent solution when I can find one that fits my needs and is good looking enough to not affect the looks or resale value of the boat.
Good luck to all who are working on this endeavor! Joe.
THANKS SEA WOLF
THE TANK ON THE REAR WINDOW/BULKHEAD ON BOMBERO IS A DEISEL FUEL TANK FOR THE SMALL DEISEL STOVE/HEATER.
WHEN I GET THE BOAT BACK FROM THE CANVASS INSTALLER......I WILL TAKE A PIC OF IT AND POST IT
IT IS NOT AS PRETTY AS A WALLIS......BUT IS SMALL....CHEAP, AND DOES THE JOB FOR THOSE COLD DAYS FISHING OR OVERNIGHTING HERE IN THE NORTHWEST
ROB IN VANCOUVER, CANADA
BOMBERO
THE TANK ON THE REAR WINDOW/BULKHEAD ON BOMBERO IS A DEISEL FUEL TANK FOR THE SMALL DEISEL STOVE/HEATER.
WHEN I GET THE BOAT BACK FROM THE CANVASS INSTALLER......I WILL TAKE A PIC OF IT AND POST IT
IT IS NOT AS PRETTY AS A WALLIS......BUT IS SMALL....CHEAP, AND DOES THE JOB FOR THOSE COLD DAYS FISHING OR OVERNIGHTING HERE IN THE NORTHWEST
ROB IN VANCOUVER, CANADA
BOMBERO