Help - Condensation/heather

O

Ordutch1975

New member
I took my boat out for the first time for an overnight in pretty much constant rain trip this weekend on the Columbia with 2 other buddies, between out body heat/breathing we accumulated quite some condensation on the inside of the windows etc which is quite frustrating when trying to navigate the waters. I know I should probably get a heater like a wallas or wabasto or something. I don't want to spend a fortune and don't want to have a cook top. For me its about heat like a forced air system or the like. So my question is:

What system should I get for a reasonable price that comes with good install instructions which I can follow myself? Where would I keep the fuel/diesel/lkerosene etc. We had a gas buddy heater but as we all know unvented heating only leads to more condensation.

Help - I want to be able to enjoy the boat no matter what weather we have.

Thanks all,
Harald
 
Obviously I am tired after our trip since I apparently can't formulate a normal sentence. I meant heater not heather etc.

was a great trip just need to figure this out.
 
We also boat in the PNW. Your body is giving off moisture and the cold water you're in makes it condense easily. From easy & cheap to lots of work here are some options:

I installed a solar/battery exhaust fan in the head and we leave the head door open all night. Pics in our album. I also crack either the hatch in the v-berth or leave a window open 1" or so; the hatch seems to work better for air flow and usually does not allow rain in.

We do have a Wallas cook top/heater but IMO it's neither a good cook top nor heater. The popular option here is the Webasto-type diesel heater install. Most install it under the galley with a plastic diesel tank. They are exhausted outside and provide dry heat to the cabin. Some installs even have a thermostat that can be set to a temp. I'm actually looking at heater options now. There is the Wallas furnace only option, but they ain't cheap.

Third thing to think about is coating the interior with an "insulated coating" that is sprayed on and painted over with latex paint. There is obviously some labor involved.
 
Harald, Mark is onto something when he says ventilation is needed. I'm on a 22, so a bit smaller space, but I leave the forward hatch open, either sitting on the latches, or have them caught in the first opening so little critters can't just lift the hatch and join me if I am at a dock. Also, the center window is open too, same way, if I am on a dock, or about 2 inches if I am at anchor. No rain issues that way. And the side windows are open about an inch or two. All help with ventilation. I never leave the Wallas running over night. I have even left the little bilge cover open at times, but I don't know how much that helps. When the OB's are running I have a fan hanging below the shelf and it rotates to keep the windows clear if needed.

Oh, one other thing that might play a part in keeping the V birth clear of condensation over night is that I sleep with a CPAP device, and the fan forced air provides some air movement in the area forward of the helm bulkhead.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMGP1631.thumb.jpg
 
Funny thing is because of the insulation in the v-berth and cab of the venture I don’t really get much on the walls or the like - it’s the windows and their respective frames. When riding back from beacon rock this morning had to keep front hatch slightly open and side windows too to be able to see. It’s not a big deal rather more frustrating than anything else as we were already cold. I forgot my shore power cord as I didn’t know beacon rock had hookups. I will look at the wabasto heaters that may just solve my problems in this regard. Anyone install one of these ?

H
 
Harald, If it is just the windows, a well placed fan or two, even small ones can make a big difference.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_161.thumb.jpg
 
I cruise year-round in the wet PNW, and like you, couldn't see spending the $4500 for the Wallas cooktop option from the factory. It took me over a year to finally get around to installing a Wallas 1300 heater (no stove), which I just did this weekend (and love it by the way! - it's about $1500 for the kit and took me about 6 hours to install by myself, pretty straight forward, lots of info on here).

But for the last year I have been mostly able to avoid the fogged up windows and still stay warm throughout the winter. Here are a few suggestions:
1. I prefer to cruise with the cabin door open, for a variety of reasons, even in the winter. One advantage is the open door virtually eliminates fogging. With the cabin door open and a co-pilot in the boat, we cruised all day last January with a Mr. Buddy heater on low to medium and virtually no fogging of the windows. Maybe occasionally cracking the side windows for air flow if things begin to fog.

2. Like Harvey and others, I use a couple of small fans, each powered by 2 D-cell batteries. From Amazon they were about $5 each. You just move them around to wherever the windows begin to fog. With almost constant use and about 200 cruising hours in the first year, I finally replaced the batteries earlier this fall.

3. If staying out overnight, if it's rainy and cold, I like staying at a marina where you can plug into the 30A shore power and run a little ceramic heater, which gives nice dry heat, and really dries things out quickly if you did get fogged up while cruising. In the winter months the marinas are deserted around here, so it's much nicer than marinas in the summer.

As soon as I get around to downloading my photos from the weekend, I plan to write more about my Wallas 1300 installation and first impressions in the following thread. But just a spoiler alert: in the snowy low 30's weather we've had this weekend I was cruising in comfort, warm and dry, with no fogging, and no use of the fans. http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=15872

-Mike
 
There were knock-offs of my Espar heater when I did my install. Most were from Eastern Europe. Now, there are knock-offs directly from China that are even cheaper. I spent $600 for the "real thing," assuming that Espar doesn't source its parts from Eastern Europe and China.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Diesel-Hea ... Sws0lZ7asB

$270, including shipping, from China. I know what they say about deals that are too good to be true. I'd like to see a trustworthy review, but I have to say it looks basically identical to my Espar.

The CD 16 doesn't have a cabin door, so there's no way to seal things tight and drive up the humidity in the cabin. But not being able to close a door isn't a problem as my little heater can blow more warm air than I need.

Mark

102_0057.jpg
 
@MikeR as to the Wallas - can you mount this Wallas 1300 under the counter and run an exhaust vent? I rather not see it...

@Marco Flamingo This deal looks too good to be true - doesn't look like it comes with a thru hull vent - is this something you purchase separately? How did you vent yours?
 
The Espar "Airtronic" heater is available in a number of places, for under $700. As it is mounted against the hull, there is both fresh air brought in, and exhaust air discharged thru the side of the hull. It would not be too difficult to make a "defroster" set of air flow hoses--perhaps will small fans to distribute the warm air over the inside of the windshield. It is possible to put in manual "ducting deflectors" to move the warm air to the windshield or to the forward cabin.

We made do with the Wallas in AK but it does leave some to be desired in the colder temperatures.
 
The espar seems intriguing as I could install it in a cubby on the back deck and I like that it takes air from outside it seems and creates positive airflow in the cab. I get about 1000 $ rebate on my electronics I could use towards this. Thanks all for your input.

I also think some reliable independent heat will make my wife happy in the winter months :-)

Thanks again,
Harald
 
Ordutch1975":2qnj5arp said:
@Marco Flamingo This deal looks too good to be true - doesn't look like it comes with a thru hull vent - is this something you purchase separately? How did you vent yours?
Click to expand...

These are popular with truckers, so to "boaterize" them you will need some extras. A SS exhaust thru-hull is required. Be sure to place it where it won't exhaust on fender or dock lines.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-stee ... aX&vxp=mtr

I also made a muffler that I'm very happy with. It is more for the benefit of my neighbors than for me. There are pictures of the entire setup in my photo folder under "Modifications." I didn't look at what "thermostat" the Ebay model comes with, but I'm happy with the super simple model that I have. I also have a setting for just fan, so if I'm already warm enough I can just blow air around the cabin. Mine didn't come with a diesel tank, and the model shown with the Ebay heater didn't work for me, but those tanks are kind of spendy. If it works for your application, the Ebay model looks like a good deal.

At $260, I'd be willing to give it a go. Look at the people who have had trouble with the big name heaters and the problem$ that they have had getting them fixed (like shipping them to Scan Marine in Seattle). One could buy two of these and have complete spares for everything on hand.

Plus, if you bought one, you could give us all a review!

Mark
 
Ordutch1975":16tkdx5j said:
I like that it takes air from outside it seems and creates positive airflow in the cab.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought originally, but on my model (maybe all of them) that wasn't possible. The temperature sensor is actually in the little heater even though what looks like a thermostat is remote. It is the return air that is actually measured for temperature, not the actual temperature at the dial. That means that if you draw in cold outside air, your "return air" will never heat up enough to shut off the heater and it will run continuously.

Simply cracking a window or hatch gives me plenty of circulation and the heater doesn't have any problem dealing with that.

Mark
 
My experience with diesel heaters is that they take combustion air from the outside, but use the already warmed air inside of the boat for the actual "heating air" There is an air heat exchanger as you would. You don't want the heater outside of the cabin...They can be noisy. I had one which sounded like a jet taking off--but it was considerably larger than the Espar.
 
Condensation is just a PITA to put up with. I have a Webasto heater, and it does a great job keeping the boat warm. (Coming home from our Columbia River run, I spent the last night boaterhoming at the Cabella's parking lot in Mitchell, SD. Temp got down to 18 outside, and the Webasto kept the boat at 57. I use a fan to help move the heater air (vent located just under and forward of sink) to the berth. After I got up, and shut the fan off, the cabin climbed to 63 degrees. If it's dry out side, the boat will stay relatively dry inside. If it's real humid or raining outside, I end up with condensation everywhere. I just wipe it down in the morning with a shammy. In more moderate temps I have left some windows or hatches open, and with a fan going, that seems to help. But in the rain, or at 18 degrees, everything is pretty much closed up. I do have two solar vents that I keep running at night, but still end up with condensation on humid nights. The regular portable 9" fans do help a little. Just my two cents FWIW. Colby
 
@Colbysmith

I have some good pictures of you on the highway after the trip - I didn't know how to post them in the thread for the trip. How do I post them or send them to you?. My buddy across the street was driving a VW bus on I5 when he took the pics.

So are their heaters that create positive air flow in the cabin?

H
 
The fresh air drawn into Wallas units (we use a 1300) is for combustion and the interior cabin air is what is pulled into the unit, heated, and blown out for distribution. This does not result in positive (pressure added) airflow, but does keep the combustion process from contributing to the condensation load in the boat. The warm air raises the saturation fraction so the air "drys out" and a cracked window also aids in driving moisture out of the cabin if the humidity is lower out there which of course is not always the case.

On rainy days/mornings, we run the wallas heater and it quickly begins to dry the boat out including gear and surfaces.

Greg
 
I have some good pictures of you on the highway after the trip - I didn't know how to post them in the thread for the trip. How do I post them or send them to you?. My buddy across the street was driving a VW bus on I5 when he took the pics.

So are their heaters that create positive air flow in the cabin?
Click to expand...

Cool, regarding the photos, I'd love to see them. To post them here in the thread, you first need to upload them to your photo album, then inmbed them from there. Probably easier just to send them directly to me. I'll PM you my email.

Regarding heaters that create positive air flow in the cabin. As some have indicated, the Webasto, Espar and Wallas all have two separate chambers. A combustion chamber that always should exhaust to outside, and usually get their combustion intake air from outside also. And then the "cabin" chamber that circulates air from the cabin thru the heater for the warm air. I don't know how the Wallas is set up, but with my Webasto, at one time I just had the combustion chamber air intake coming from inside the cabin. (No outside vent hose on the heater.) The theory I read was that since our boats are not tightly sealed at all, this would draw outside dryer air into the boat since it would go through the combustion chamber, then be exhausted out, helping with condensation and such. That theory didn't really prove out, since high humidity outside was not allowing dry air to enter the boat. Thus I now have an outside intake air line for my combustion side of the heater. Colby
 
Back
Top