Hi all, this is my first post. I am trying (so far without success) to buy a 22 cruiser. They keep getting sold out from underneath me! We are now looking at a 2001 with a newish Honda 135. I know that a 90 is a common engine. Is the 135 simply too big for a 22? It looks enormous.
honda 135 on 22 cruiser?
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Anonymous
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the manual for the 22 say 500lb on the transom max.
that a 90 or a 115 non honda is 350-400 lbs
a 9.9 kicker is 100-120 lbs
batteries 50 lbs each
the manual say this is for balance
I think the 115 and 135 honda are about 500 lbs.
Insurance may also be an issue as the boats are rated anywhere from 90 - 115 hp depending on age.
You will find your c-dory, probably when you least expect it...
that a 90 or a 115 non honda is 350-400 lbs
a 9.9 kicker is 100-120 lbs
batteries 50 lbs each
the manual say this is for balance
I think the 115 and 135 honda are about 500 lbs.
Insurance may also be an issue as the boats are rated anywhere from 90 - 115 hp depending on age.
You will find your c-dory, probably when you least expect it...
Fish Commander
New member
The Max Factory HP rating for a C-Dory 22 is 115
beyond that you might be illegal and asking for trouble
beyond that you might be illegal and asking for trouble
Fish Commander
New member
when you overpower a boat you will likely get caught in one of two traps. The first being a MAJOR concern in today's highly litigious society, liability. If you have an accident (regardless whose at fault, remember you are dealing with trial lawyers and the court system!) you likely will be accused of being at fault if for no other reason than you set a dangerous precedent by willingly overpowering your boat. In effect you are the same (in the courts eyes) as a drunk driver who wasn't actually at fault but in the accident none the less. Technically its one of those, "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" kinda deals. But in reality a slick lawyer will paint it as a, "he MIGHT could've avoided the accident had he been in a safer craft!" Remember lawyers aren't paid to paint/recreate a scene of truth, they only must create doubt.
And the second problem will be that more than likely your insurance company has a clause in your policy that expressly prohibits their coverage of boats that are overpowered. Even if they unknowingly cover you for ten years before an accident, legally all they then have to do is refund your premium. Remember, their mistake of covering an overpowered craft is overshadowed by the lie you told by signing the policy in the first place. Which here again contains fine print that your rig is ok to begin with!
So there you have it, a trial lawyer will cry crocodile tears to a non boating jury and you might possibly be slapped with big compensatory or even punitive damages only to find that your insurance company left you hanging. THAT'S when your personal property becomes someone elses .
Do you feel lucky, huh?
And the second problem will be that more than likely your insurance company has a clause in your policy that expressly prohibits their coverage of boats that are overpowered. Even if they unknowingly cover you for ten years before an accident, legally all they then have to do is refund your premium. Remember, their mistake of covering an overpowered craft is overshadowed by the lie you told by signing the policy in the first place. Which here again contains fine print that your rig is ok to begin with!
So there you have it, a trial lawyer will cry crocodile tears to a non boating jury and you might possibly be slapped with big compensatory or even punitive damages only to find that your insurance company left you hanging. THAT'S when your personal property becomes someone elses .
Do you feel lucky, huh?
135 =
1. too powerful by about 25-35 horses,
2. plus too heavy and puts the boat out of balance, both in weight and handling
3. over manufacturer's recommendations, (these count for something)
4. insurance company views as ill-advised, perhaps voiding policy, or makes boat un-insurable in the first place
5. consumes excess fuel at idle, slow, and medium speeds; full throttle makes boat squirrley, perhaps even chine walk
6. more expensive to repair,
7. buy it and continue to add to the list! :lol:
Sorry, just an honest opinion!
Joe. :teeth :thup
1. too powerful by about 25-35 horses,
2. plus too heavy and puts the boat out of balance, both in weight and handling
3. over manufacturer's recommendations, (these count for something)
4. insurance company views as ill-advised, perhaps voiding policy, or makes boat un-insurable in the first place
5. consumes excess fuel at idle, slow, and medium speeds; full throttle makes boat squirrley, perhaps even chine walk
6. more expensive to repair,
7. buy it and continue to add to the list! :lol:
Sorry, just an honest opinion!
Joe. :teeth :thup
That's how C-Dory works. They usually don't stay around long, especially if they are in good shape and priced right. It's a common story. Have your financing all ready, so when you are ready to go see the boat, you can seal the deal, or make a good faith down payment to hold it for a survey completion. Finding one anywhere close to your local area is a bonus.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
PaulNBriannaLynn
New member
I know this boat, and the conversion was done recently by a friend of mine at Tacoma Boat for a customer. It was also advertised at the Puyallup Sportsman show and I thought the price was pretty good at the time. That motor is either brand new or nearly new.
Just playing devils advocate here, my twin Honda 40s weigh in around 428 lbs, and the big Honda 135 is 485lbs. Were talking about a difference of 57 lbs. on the transom if your running without a kicker, which would be the only way in my opinion.
When we are headed out to the San Juan islands like we always do, loaded for days of camping, fishing and shrimping, I have both tanks totally full of fuel, a huge cooler full of ice, 4 shrimp pots weighing 200 lbs total, a giant 160 lb dog, and we've traveled through some white knuckle seas at times with all that gear near the transom and never felt unsafe at all. So whats so scary about that extra 57 lbs?
The insurance thing is valid I suppose, but I still think it wouldn't be that hard to find an insurer. People get insurance on homemade boats and restored/improved boats all the time.
I wouldn't be scared of the boat, you know the motor is low hours and really valuable, much more than the smaller outboard. You could always try it, and if it scares you trade the motor in for a smaller one.
Just playing devils advocate here, my twin Honda 40s weigh in around 428 lbs, and the big Honda 135 is 485lbs. Were talking about a difference of 57 lbs. on the transom if your running without a kicker, which would be the only way in my opinion.
When we are headed out to the San Juan islands like we always do, loaded for days of camping, fishing and shrimping, I have both tanks totally full of fuel, a huge cooler full of ice, 4 shrimp pots weighing 200 lbs total, a giant 160 lb dog, and we've traveled through some white knuckle seas at times with all that gear near the transom and never felt unsafe at all. So whats so scary about that extra 57 lbs?
The insurance thing is valid I suppose, but I still think it wouldn't be that hard to find an insurer. People get insurance on homemade boats and restored/improved boats all the time.
I wouldn't be scared of the boat, you know the motor is low hours and really valuable, much more than the smaller outboard. You could always try it, and if it scares you trade the motor in for a smaller one.
journey on
New member
The Honda 135 and 115 weigh the same: 478 lbs. Unless you have the long shaft, then it weighs 485 lbs. Both engines are based on the Honda Accord 2.3 liter 4. In addition, the Honda 150 is the same engine as the 135 except for variable valve timing. They all run up to 6000 rpm so you can't run any faster..
Since a Honda 115 is acceptable for a c-Dory 22, I would imagine that a 135 is too. The only question is if you can keep your throttle hand from getting the engine WFO out of the hole. And if you do that too much you'll have a spun prop on either engine.
So, if you're still interested, there's nothing wrong with a Honda 135 on that boat.
Boris
Since a Honda 115 is acceptable for a c-Dory 22, I would imagine that a 135 is too. The only question is if you can keep your throttle hand from getting the engine WFO out of the hole. And if you do that too much you'll have a spun prop on either engine.
So, if you're still interested, there's nothing wrong with a Honda 135 on that boat.
Boris
Although that is over the HP rating for the boat--it could be used. Problem is that when you need more than 90 hp is when the boat is already heavily loaded! Generally the boats don't like to run at over 30 mph--and most boats will run 30 mph when light with a 90hp.
As far as the insurance--there are many stories where folks have put on larger boaters and got them approved by the insurance. For example my boat is rated on the sticker at 100 HP. Same as the boat rated at 90 hp or 115 hp. No modifications.
I do consider the weight an issue, but I have 3 70 # battery aft, either ice chest and freezer or fridge and freezer--at 100 # each full. So I am certainly up at that weight near the transom--and no adverse handling. Recently in fresh water at sea level fully loaded, the boat would run in the mid 20's mph with the 90 Honda. Never saw any reason to go faster.
Sorry to disagree--but the 135 will go faster than the 90; not because of RPM limits, but because you can put a higher pitch prop on with the higher hP motor.
If the boat is a fantastic bargin consider it. Talk to your insurance, Don't get in an accident (because there is a potential liability--but so is driving a car!) You can always sell that motor and get a smaller lighter one if you wish.
Be sure and either get a good marine survey or have someone who is really knowledgable with C Dory go over the boat with you. I occasionally see boats with obvious defects which new owners have missed--and can be very expensive to fix!
As far as the insurance--there are many stories where folks have put on larger boaters and got them approved by the insurance. For example my boat is rated on the sticker at 100 HP. Same as the boat rated at 90 hp or 115 hp. No modifications.
I do consider the weight an issue, but I have 3 70 # battery aft, either ice chest and freezer or fridge and freezer--at 100 # each full. So I am certainly up at that weight near the transom--and no adverse handling. Recently in fresh water at sea level fully loaded, the boat would run in the mid 20's mph with the 90 Honda. Never saw any reason to go faster.
Sorry to disagree--but the 135 will go faster than the 90; not because of RPM limits, but because you can put a higher pitch prop on with the higher hP motor.
If the boat is a fantastic bargin consider it. Talk to your insurance, Don't get in an accident (because there is a potential liability--but so is driving a car!) You can always sell that motor and get a smaller lighter one if you wish.
Be sure and either get a good marine survey or have someone who is really knowledgable with C Dory go over the boat with you. I occasionally see boats with obvious defects which new owners have missed--and can be very expensive to fix!
journey on
New member
Well, Bob, if you want to talk about a 90, that's only 360 lbs because, one assumes, it's based on a 1.5 liter 4. I pointed out that a 115 is not an unusual motor for a C-Dory 22 and that the 115, 135 and 150 all weigh the same, 478 lbs.
I do agree you can change the pitch/gearing to suit the motor. I assume they did that, but i don't know.
Boris
I do agree you can change the pitch/gearing to suit the motor. I assume they did that, but i don't know.
Boris
Besides being 20 HP over the MFG. maximum, and being exceedingly heavy relative to the CD 22's design parameters, the Honda BF 135 (and 115/150) are SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the typical 90/115 metric. I bet the motor cowling would hit the forward bulkhead of the splashwell long before the lower unit cleared the water. The original post provides a common sense hint: "it looks enormous". It is enormous. It is way bigger, heavier, and FAR more powerful than the boat was designed for. Add batteries, coolers, full gas, kickers, etc. and you have a real problem. Boris: are you really serious when you suggest that self-limiting the use of the throttle range would be an OK safety plan? What happens when his kids are learning or his brother borrows the boat? A 135 would make that a 40 MPH boat. I know this is just internet chin-scratching, but it does involve someone's safety. Hopefully this buyer trusts his initial instincts and doesn't let "boat fever" and some poor advice here draw him into an expensive lesson. Maybe he can arrange a trade with a dealer for a straight-across trade for something more appropriate, since the 135 is a more expensive engine. Certainly something more appropriate will come up in the used market now that Spring is here.
South of Heaven
New member
Why are Honda's so HEAVY?? Lol
Yes, the Honda 135 is more engine then warranted for the CD22 & possibly not a good physical fit & other points made against it's use in this case valid, but I like Boris & some others, don't think the extra weight part that big a deal. We've left port in SE Alaska many times with an extra 550 pounds beyond the normal combination of twin Honda 40's, a full load of fuel & batteries in the lazaret, while towing the Mokai motorized kayak with several of these times into small craft warning seas, creating what many here would call pretty severe sea conditions even in a light to moderately loaded CD22 with the boat still handling well. I also think all that power beyond what's really needed not a big deal either for those who know & understand the CD22's limitations of its use. I know there's been a few times I would have loved to have the choice to grab another 55 hp for a quick burst of speed.
Jay
Jay
colbysmith
Active member
FWIW, I have a Mercury 115hp, 4 stroke EFI on my CD-22, and feel it's more motor than I need, but it came with the boat. I think the recommended 90 would be a better bet. Particularly if it weighs less and burns less fuel. But I bought my boat used and it came with the 115, so that's what I run. If I had the opportunity to trade for a comparable 90, I would consider it. I think if I were in your shoes with the larger motor, I'd get the boat if everything else is in good shape, and then look for a trade down in motors. Colby
My main concern would be the weight (but the idea that the large size might cause some interference in tilting is worth checking into).
Some folks are saying "Well sure, but I carry X, Y, and Z which come out to more than that engine weight, and it's not a problem." I can see that; but then who says the new owner of the boat with the 135 won't ALSO carry X, Y, and Z? So then it's still 100# of extra weight.
I just love the Honda 115 (same block as the 135) and really tried to make it mentally okay for myself to re-power my 22 with one. But none of my "logic" held up. For example, I figured (as someone said above), well, I'll just run without a kicker, and then the engine won't weigh any more than a typical 90 plus kicker. But then I realized, well wait, that means I could also run a 90 without a kicker and save THAT 100#, so the Honda 115 was still basically 100# of extra weight.
I talked with a friend who had run a 22 with a light stern and he said it really made the boat handle nicely. (He was speaking of a boat more in line with the weight that would have been on one when they were designed: 250# of engine, small batteries, 36 gallons of fuel.)
From reading here I can see that our 22's handle extra weight with good grace, and just keep on cruising along. But... why do it "on purpose" if there are engines that weigh 100# less and get the job done nicely (and then if you do want to "overload" you can do it with fuel, stores, gear, etc.).
I ended up deciding that something like the Yamaha 115 "B" would work better. It weighs around 375# as opposed to the Honda 115 (and I would presume the 135 as well) at around 478#. In other words, 100 lbs. heavier! The Honda is on a big block, so I suppose that accounts for it. I still think the Honda 115 is a great engine, but... for a different boat.
Some folks are saying "Well sure, but I carry X, Y, and Z which come out to more than that engine weight, and it's not a problem." I can see that; but then who says the new owner of the boat with the 135 won't ALSO carry X, Y, and Z? So then it's still 100# of extra weight.
I just love the Honda 115 (same block as the 135) and really tried to make it mentally okay for myself to re-power my 22 with one. But none of my "logic" held up. For example, I figured (as someone said above), well, I'll just run without a kicker, and then the engine won't weigh any more than a typical 90 plus kicker. But then I realized, well wait, that means I could also run a 90 without a kicker and save THAT 100#, so the Honda 115 was still basically 100# of extra weight.
I talked with a friend who had run a 22 with a light stern and he said it really made the boat handle nicely. (He was speaking of a boat more in line with the weight that would have been on one when they were designed: 250# of engine, small batteries, 36 gallons of fuel.)
From reading here I can see that our 22's handle extra weight with good grace, and just keep on cruising along. But... why do it "on purpose" if there are engines that weigh 100# less and get the job done nicely (and then if you do want to "overload" you can do it with fuel, stores, gear, etc.).
I ended up deciding that something like the Yamaha 115 "B" would work better. It weighs around 375# as opposed to the Honda 115 (and I would presume the 135 as well) at around 478#. In other words, 100 lbs. heavier! The Honda is on a big block, so I suppose that accounts for it. I still think the Honda 115 is a great engine, but... for a different boat.
Sunbeam, good points well made. As well as the CD22 does handle extra weight in the stern your right it does even better with out it & if our Honda 40's were 100 pounds lighter, I would be even more pleased with them than now. I'm generally looking for a way to lose weight, so we can carry more of the essentials, which extends our time out before having to resupply.
Jay
Jay