honda 135 on 22 cruiser?

The argument about carrying a bunch of extra gear is equivalent to the extra weight of the heavier motor misses the fact that the extra weight is distributed quite a bit (over a at least a couple of feet) and not directly attached to and concentrated at the transom.
 
Having seen this boat advertised at the Puyallup sportsmans show, I think its priced at a hell of a deal. I was told the owner spent something near 20k to repower with the intention to keep it and circumstances forced him to sell. For the money involved, a person could have a really nice setup is all I'm saying.

If I was looking, it would interest me because you could probably have your choice of any brand new EFI motors, single or twins, whatever a person wanted for the value of that big 135. Would I want that big of a motor on the back, probably not..... but it would be good for horse trading.
 
swf, if the boat price & condition matches your wants & your not immediately interested in trading the motor with the weight on the transom, not the hp a big concern, than I suggest you PM Jody Kidd on "Voyager" who runs a 115 hp Suzuki main & a 9.9 hp Suzuki back up, which is a combined weight of slightly over 500 lbs. He can give you first hand experience of how his CD22 performs with that much weight right on the transom & I can say few CD22's look any better on the water or trailer than his.

Jay
 
journey on":1leb3w3e said:
The Honda 135 and 115 weigh the same: 478 lbs. Unless you have the long shaft, then it weighs 485 lbs. Both engines are based on the Honda Accord 2.3 liter 4. In addition, the Honda 150 is the same engine as the 135 except for variable valve timing. They all run up to 6000 rpm so you can't run any faster..

Since a Honda 115 is acceptable for a c-Dory 22, I would imagine that a 135 is too. The only question is if you can keep your throttle hand from getting the engine WFO out of the hole. And if you do that too much you'll have a spun prop on either engine.

So, if you're still interested, there's nothing wrong with a Honda 135 on that boat.

Boris
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This. There are well intentioned comments here, but many use the 115 and the weight is the same. It will work. I've seen a 22 with a 150 on it, and the owner told me that as long as he kept off the throttle it was no problem for the boat. While that's an anecdote, it's real world feedback.

The power ratings on these boats are a centerline, lowest common denominator, CYA, on-size fits all recommendation based on the idea that the operator can and will put the hammer down. It's not necessary to do that ever, and there are also times when extra power can save your bacon, like when you get out of position in a heavy following sea and need abundant power to keep a large wave from overtaking you.

I run boats with obscene power to weight ratios sometimes, with enough power to easily swamp, roll or sink themselves if operated improperly. But I'm alive and well because I don't operate them improperly.

Additionally, one can install governors to limit the amount of an engines power one has available to them, or could even detune the motor all the way down to 115hp without changing any major components (I know this to be true on slightly older Hondas, but not sure about your year, because you the OP didn't mention).

Now, this is not an ideal motor, but you are certainly on the correct side of needing to trade your motor out. A dealer likely won't be your best option, but craigslist might allow you to find someone with a 90, or a lighter 115, and trade you straight across for the larger engine.

I suppose the point I'm circling is that if this is the boat for you, I wouldn't necessarily let the extra power stop you from purchasing the boat. I'd be more concerned with the condition of the hull, if the core is intact, if the penetrations into the core are done properly and well sealed, if the equipment included is the specific equipment I want (this will save many boat bucks in the next couple years) and await an opportunity to repower with an engine you find ideal.

If you are able to reserve funds for a repower now and wait to recoup your costs after you sell your 135, an brand new honda 90 is a very nice motor (I just got one at work), or can negotiate the purchase of the boat without the engine you'd be all set. If not, you could purchase the while shebang, then remove the 135 and sell it, and afterwards find a newer used BF90, and you should be able to buy a newer one than you sell, or have some money leftover for bait and gas if you sell your 135 well.

I'd make sure the thing has trim tabs though, or you'll never have a decent ride through chop at any speed.
 
Just to point out that the majority of boats with 115 hp motors are:

Merc at 399#
Yamaha at 377#
Suzuki at 410#

I currently run a Suzuki 140 came block as 115) on my 18 foot Caracal cat, different boat type, and over the HP currently recommended by the manufacturer for that boat. Runs great, and no issues with insurance etc.

Certainly the point that the extra weight is not on the transom is valid--but many have that amount of weight on the transom with Kicker (as Jay notes).

in my 22 140# of batteries are between the fuel tanks, the next battery and 200# of fridge & freezer (total 270#) are right in ;front of the fuel tanks. Not all that far form the transom. Definitely the boats handle better light. But no detriment with the weight, except reduced speed and acceleration (which in some conditions, such as breaking inlet following seas could be a detriment--but that i where judgement comes into play.) I routinely run my 22 way over the capacity on the yellow sticker by the helm, of 1000# including fuel, engine, gear and persons--I am sure that often I am 2 x this "capacity" when on long cruises of a month or more.
 
First, let me say how impressed I am by all the information you have all provided. I see the proof of the comment I read on the site somewhere that the best part of owning a c-dory is this forum. So thank you.

For what it is worth, a marine insurance broker told me today that the size of the motor does not affect the premium (price of insurance) unless the boat is capable of going 50 mph. I assume this is not the case here? He did not specifically address the liability issues raised here, although I asked him to.

As for liability issues, I do not claim expertise, although I have a law degree. My thinking is that, at least in Canada, unless the size of the motor was a cause of an accident or at least a contributing factor, and a smaller motor would not have had the same result, the size of the motor does not matter.

Therefore I think that no liability arises out of the mere fact the motor is a 135, although I share the concerns expressed that the motor is too big.

I will let you know when we actually are c-dory owners.
 
swf":2w2mpk2o said:
First, let me say how impressed I am by all the information you have all provided. I see the proof of the comment I read on the site somewhere that the best part of owning a c-dory is this forum. So thank you.

For what it is worth, a marine insurance broker told me today that the size of the motor does not affect the premium (price of insurance) unless the boat is capable of going 50 mph. I assume this is not the case here? He did not specifically address the liability issues raised here, although I asked him to.

As for liability issues, I do not claim expertise, although I have a law degree. My thinking is that, at least in Canada, unless the size of the motor was a cause of an accident or at least a contributing factor, and a smaller motor would not have had the same result, the size of the motor does not matter.

Therefore I think that no liability arises out of the mere fact the motor is a 135, although I share the concerns expressed that the motor is too big.

I will let you know when we actually are c-dory owners.
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You won't get the 22 up to 50MPH with that engine or any size engine for that matter. On my previous 22, I had twin 40's and when the boat was lightly loaded and the bottom was new (e.g. pre bottom paint) I could get close to 32MPH under the most ideal of conditions. At that speed, the hull is on the edge of stability. E.g. it's very "skittish" and tends easily wander a bit on the tail. There's not a lot of hull left in the water at that speed and what is there is fairly flat so it doesn't track well. With 135HP, you'll be able to get well above 32MPH but much faster than 30-32MPH, and I can assure you the boat won't be very stable (if not downright scary). As others have said 135 is overkill. That said, if you get if for a decent price, don't drive it too hard and plan on holding onto it for a long time, a 135 isn't (IMHO) a deal breaker. If I were to buy such a boat though, I'd be looking for someone with a 90hp Honda who wanted to do an exchange - e.g. his 90+ some cash for the 135.
 
As long as you're not Bob with all his stuff or me with all my stuff, I think it would be fine. It's 200 pounds and not THAT much - I put that back there all on a aluminum rack I tig welded up all the time with shrimp pots, shrimp, a mile of leaded line, giant coolers, beer, 8 or so halibut, extra gas.....it gets tail heavy but it trims out without issue. And like one with a 135, my boat is stern heavy, twin 45s and a small 4 stroke kicker, and 3 batteries are all as far back as can be. It's fine - tons of hours logged and not on smooth water. With all of this said, I'd sell it anyway for my use - I need to be able to haul a bunch of crap and that 200 pounds would be 200 pounds I could no longer carry due to completely unneeded engine weight to attain a speed that is unsafe to go anyway.

This conversation reminds me of my 16 foot 50/35 jet skiff. It is rated for a 35 hp prop motor. With a 50/35 jet and only one person and basically nothing, it goes 7-8 mph faster than feels safe for hull design. It's frightening. The simple answer, is of course one part genius and one part obvious, don't do it. But, with that said, it needs that power (and could use even more) when hauling dip net caught red salmon, or a moose, or just a couple of passengers up river.
 
T.R. Bauer":w6aqpe6v said:
With all of this said, I'd sell it anyway for my use - I need to be able to haul a bunch of crap and that 200 pounds would be 200 pounds I could no longer carry due to completely unneeded engine weight to attain a speed that is unsafe to go anyway.
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That's what I was trying to say - but you got it in one sentence. :D
 
SW:

Consider this.

I had a 28' boat powered by twin 415HP factory equipped, USCG approved V8s.

If you are into speed, why dink around with a measly 135HP? Mathematically,
by deduction analysis and counterintuitive thinking, your 22' boat could be
powered by > 650* HP.

* 28/830 = 22/X

X = (830 x 22)/28 = 652.1

Cutting back, a little, for safety and maybe fuel savings, twin 300s on your 22
footer would be a sight to behold not to mention a thrill when you put the
hammers down! Twin engines would also make for easier docking.

Aye.
 
Foggy":34g62qot said:
...Cutting back, a little, for safety and maybe fuel savings, twin 300s on your 22 footer would be a sight to behold not to mention a thrill when you put the hammers down! Twin engines would also make for easier docking.....

Aye.
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If you put twins 200hp and above you could get the fancy new joystick system that lets you maneuver the boat in any direction you want just by pushing and/or twisting the joystick.
 
I think I read all of these posts pretty carefully, but I didn't see the most important point made. The transoms on the 22 are well built, but there is a cantilever force put on the transom that is very high when you go WOT to get on plane. I'm pretty sure that the engine weight was only one of the engineering parameters used by the hull designers. I'm also very sure that the torque effect on the transom as the engine is powered up is an even bigger consideration. The 135 could easily be at the edge of the engineering margin. They state some HP value that is less than the design limit for a few reasons:

1. Variations in build quality and materials year to year or even day to day.
2. Variations in dealer installation quality of work for engines and systems.
3. Long term wear and tear on the transom over many years.
4. Static issues, (weight), are the least consideration, it is the dynamic issues of vibration, torque, boat stability at speeds and so on that are the bigger drivers of the design and derating formulas.

So, the rated limit is not something to treat lightly. That limit comes from structural modeling and sound marine derating practices that have been proven year after year.

Cut the deal without the 135 or make sure you can get it off of there and put a nice 90 to 100 hp on instead for the right price.
 
I notice there's a lot of negative response regarding the weight of the Honda. Also, there seems to be a number of owners who have 115 HP Hondas on their boat. The 90 Honda is the "other" Honda. The 90 is 360 lbs and the 115/135/150 is 480 lbs so the difference is 120 lbs.

So lets hear from one of those 115 owners. Does the extra weight compromise the C-Dory 22 in the areas of handling and durability?

I suspect the C-Dory in question is long gone and we're arguing just for it's own sake.

Boris
 
journey on":3kradvpm said:
Also, there seems to be a number of owners who have 115 HP Hondas on their boat.
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I don't know of any 22's with a Honda 115 on the transom. There may be one (or some) but I haven't seen or heard of one. (The Honda 115 is an entirely different beast than a 115 from the other principal engine makers, which are around 100# lighter and have blocks around half the size.)

I have been on a Marinaut 21 with a Honda 115. Great engine. But the Marinaut 21, being a newer design, has much more reserve buoyancy in the transom than our 22 Cruisers (because by the time they sat down to design the Marinaut, it was a given that folks would be running big/heavy four strokes, larger fuel tanks, larger house banks, etc - not the custom in 1987 and before).
 
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