Honda 2 hp Kicker for 22' Cruiser, and 8'6" Dinghy

I love the tohatsu 3.5 4 stroke. It is perfect for trolling for chinook and king salmon as it really pushes a 22 perfectly for that. And that would be very slowly. As a kicker, it would be very slow, but if conditions are good it does push the 22 around 4 mph (25" shaft model) - which would eventually get you some place. I find that the boat (mine has twin 45s) is surprisingly manueverable from the helm with the 3.5 steering locked. No, it isn't sports car responsive, but it does go in the direction you point it generally. I also use it on my little dingy and it is fine - it gets a 11 year old kid on step with an extenstion handle but that is about it.....great fun for him! I was also surprised at how quickly it moves my aluminum square back canoe and 12 foot row boat. It is a pretty good all around motor choice for us. I love how my old evinrude 6 hp runs, but I like my tohatsu 3.5 4 stroke a bit better and find it goes on more trips with me - mostly because it is lighter I am get tired of smelling 2 stroke smoke.....
 
So we got out and tested the Suzuki 2.5 today on our 19 Angler.

We got 3 knots at about 1/2 throttle with a quartering headwind of about 10 knots and calm to 2ft wave conditions in Commencment bay. When we throttled up to full, the speed went up to near 4 knots but it didn't feel worth it.
This was while the main was trimmed down used for steering.

We have the motor mounted admittedly a little too high for optimum thrust and I do feel it would provide maybe another half knot if positioned lower.

I tried steering with the kicker for a bit but it was nicer to lock the steering and use the main as a rudder to steer from the helm. We cruised the Tacoma waterfront this way for an hour and used about 2/3 of the small built-in tank.

The current mounting position is a compromise for other reasons and will work well enough for us. I was guessing it would not push the boat quite as easily as the Torqeedo (with that big prop) but this little motor really does push above it's rating. We are happy with the performance for our needs so I guess it will be our new primary kicker and dinghy motor for Ari.

The pic below shows the position of the main to hold a straight course with that quartering wind. We will keep experimenting of course.

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Greg
 
Greg, is that Suzuki 2.5 a 15 inch shaft? (likely because I don't see any longer ones on web). Can you provide a better picture/measurements on how high on the transom it is mounted, and where the prop sits in relation to the bottom of transom. Looks like a versatile kicker/dingy motor solution. (and of course it's a compromise on power, weight, shaft ...).

I have a yamaha 6 hp (20 inch shaft, 62 lb) that pushes my 22 at 5 knots easily, but is not a good small dingly motor.
 
I really liked what I saw (on paper) for the Suzuki 2.5 and was considering it for the "get to the side of the road" kicker on my 22. But then it didn't come in a long shaft (at least then) and I thought a long shaft was necessary. Too, I ended up trading my Honda 8 to another Brat for a Merc 5. The Merc is a long shaft as was the Honda.

I haven't used the Merc in rough conditions, but just for the way it sits on the boat and for use in calm conditions, turns out I would prefer it to be a short shaft. As it is I shimmed it up as much as I could (which was a couple inches, given the restrains of the mounts/clamps). I noted too, that Jody of Voyager raised his long shaft kicker up to the height of a short shaft. So maybe a short shaft would be fine or even better. (I'm speaking of fixed kicker mounts here; of course there are also lifting versions but I want to keep my fixed mount.)

Maybe the long shaft is necessary in rough conditions to avoid excessive ventilation - I could see that being a possibility. Just haven't tried that yet. I don't know if Voyager has experience with his in rough water (would be interested to hear about it, if so).
 
Here are a couple of photos showing the Suzuki 2.5 short 15inch shaft mounted on our 19. It does make a better dinghy motor than a long shaft if your dinghy is designed for it. Let me know if you need a specific measurement and I can run out and grab it but I think the pictures are pretty helpful.

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I could lower our mount just a bit by shortening the plate section and may do that because it would cause no harm at this point. I think using one of the tilting/lowing action kicker brackets would make positioning a short shaft model very easy.

When I throttled up near full power, I could hear the motor intermittantly beginning to cavitate and looked down near the prop and observed the water flow being limited a bit by the prop position. This did not occur at lower throttle.

Greg
 
Here's a photo of the Garelick pad I installed. Pad cost about $70 and is robust.
As mounted, top of pad is 3.5 inches above top of transom. (This solution would not work with long trim tabs.)

GarelickPad.jpg
 
Our mount top is 4.5 inches above the transom edge (so Darkwaters is about perfect)and extends just 2.5 inches rearward which is the thickness of the v-lock plate and wood blocks together. We have the motor one trim adjustment up from bottom to clear the trim tab and that was enough to keep it from hitting in use.

Greg
 
Sunbeam, I am presently reproducing your mini-jacker setup (thanks for the pics, you are great at documenting your work!!) for my Tohatsu 9.8. I wanted a honda kicker back there to replace my tohatsu, and was ALSO thinking I'd get a 2.3 for my current garelick mount (waaay starboard and adjustable) now holding my 9.8. The 2.3 (yes, a THIRD motor!) would be a second backup to the main and kicker, and push the dinghy around as its primary duty.

Yup. Especially with full tanks, that's a heavy setup. The advice on the power/weight ratio of the 6hp range was insightful.

My main issue is that the only outboard dealer I can get to without a boat or airplane ride is a Honda dealer. People do use Suzuki, Yamaha, and to a lesser extent Mercury around here, but they have to take their boats (or at least their motors) to Anchorage (or farther) to be serviced. It's a hassle, and an expense.

I do use my kicker to putt around and save fuel sometime, as well as troll. I hate using it on it's bracket, so I'm hoping the mini jacker will give me the flexibility to steer from the main (tie bar) helm, or the tiller from the cockpit. I'm going to put a second batter in my starboard lazarette which should balance the load a bit.

Anyway, I'm just offering this as one approach, but I am in more remote and dangerous waters than most, and do a fair amount of single handed boating as well, so the extra motors (really, the 2.3 is appealing because of the extra fuel tank which is where we have more problems than anywhere else) are great for me.
 
Kushtaka, I always enjoy your posts. The way you post your reasoning behind your choices is really useful Totally the opposite from "Buy X, it's the best!" which is so often all one gets. Also, your home waters sound so interesting.

Glad you found the Mini Jacker info helpful. I pored over photos from other Brats before choosing and installing mine, so there's a lot more than just my info "built in" to it :thup

At first I tried everything to avoid the Mini Jacker (or any added bracket). (My Honda 8 was right on the transom.) But... if I wanted the Bennett tabs (and I did), I had to add something. As it turns out, I like the Mini Jacker and it has some handy side uses (eg, my transducer cables run up the inside of it, and the wire tie holders are adhered to it, and not the transom). And I just like how it's solid and has nothing to go awry. Also made it a LOT easier to get my kicker on and off, because otherwise I had to sort of "duck" the engine clamps under the steering cable (although hopefully that will be going away in favor of hydraulic steering).
 
You can read the history of my transom pretty easily, plus the fact that the same guy has been working on it since new helps, but the boat came with a 70hp 2 stroke, and had a no trim tabs, and had a kicker mounted to port. You can see the holes and accommodations made to get the kicker on there.

Seems like with the 90hp honda 4 stroke came an increased need to get the bow down, so trim tabs were added. Big ones, and boy were they needed because the kicker went on a garlick bracket waaaay to starboard creating a bad list, so the trim tabs, while great on the boat, created a problem they were needed to solve as their size prevented the kicker from staying close to amidships (kicker hits the tabs when on the transom).

The mini jacker is a fairly huge upgrade for us! The trim tabs have gone down because I failed to re-attach a wire after re-installing my battery (the wiring in my boat is a whole nuther issue, with waaaaaay too many wires direct to the battery) and another time when I blew a fuse. In this situation the boat is highly compromised. It runs with a list, and in this state simply does not perform well. I have faith in my gear, and when everything is operational I can counteract this list mechanically, but I would greatly prefer to not create a problem that did not exist when employing a solution, but that is what the previous owners of my boat did. With the mini jacker I will be able to trim the boat even more because so much more of the trim tab adjustment will be available. i also expect to run more efficiently as my trim tabs are not always in a "one up one down" position, so I'll have less drag.

I do realize that there were many who used the mini jacker before, but few have documented the process as well as you did, and I will largely be following your lead here! The one exception is that I plan to embed threaded rod "studs" into the transom (not through) for my lower bolts below (actually right near) the water line.) I just don't want to go through there.

But as I stated previously, I'm almost the most excited about a third little baby motor that will sit on the old garelick. I'm thinking that little outboard, plus the second battery in my starboard lazarette will balance out the kicker next to the well. This gives me the ability to run on my main as normal, use my get-home motor to make a good 7 kts home, OR go to the little dinghy motor (either a big electric or honda 2.3 outboard) to move her to an anchoring spot, or someplace to make repairs, call for help, or just wait for the weather to calm down and the tide to run towards home and make the trip.

So, in this long-winded ramble that repeats my previous post, after great reflection and thought I think there is great utility to using a small 2-3hp kicker on your boat as a backup. It would certainly beat paddling!!!
 
from personal experience on my 22 cruiser
2.5 yamaha 4 str short shaft max 2.5 knots 3/4 throttle
6 suzuki 4 str long shaft 4 knots 3/4 throttle

seems to me my last boat 22 cruiser went 5 knots with the yamaha T8 high trust extra long.

ymmv
 
A test performed in the UK included a bollard pull test which exposed a significant difference in thrust between small outboards. I have owned the small Honda and can agree that the Suzuki pushes harder and with less effort. The props on these little models can make a big difference and the fact that the Suzuki uses an aluminum 3 blade vs. a plastic prop on other models could impact the performance when faced with higher loading.

http://www.mby.com/general/ultimate-2-5 ... test-40258

A Bollard pull check showed that the Mercury and Tohatsu 3.5hp had 90lbs of Thrust (These two engines along with the Mariner are practically identical)
The Suzuki 2.5hp at 83lbs of thrust
the Yamaha 2.5hp at 78lbs of thrust
the Parsun 2.6hp at 70lbs of thrust
the Honda 2.3hp at 66lbs of thrust

Greg
 
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