Honda 50 hp trim/tilt not working

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mattk

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C Dory Year
1984
C Dory Model
user_field_choice.c_dory_model_16_Angler
Hello. I'm new to the C-Dory world having purchased a 1984 Angler 16 with a 30 hp Honda motor.
I recently bought a 1999 Honda 50 hp with a trim/tilt that doesn't work.
I can hear a click when I hit either the remote or local switch. But don't get any motor sounds, I've disconnected the 2 prong fitting that goes to the unit and applied 12v to both blue and green wires (with the other end grounded) but no sounds.
I bought the motor thinking I could use my existing CMC power trim unit but it is too small for the 50 hp. A new t/t unit costs $1300.
Any thoughts? Or sources for used units.
Thanks for any guidance. Matt
 
Matt-
You might try rapping the motor a time or two. If it works it's the brushes wearing out. That's what happened on my Yamaha 40. Good luck.


Alan
 
Matt, I had the same problem with the tilt motor on my Honda BF75. I ordered a new one online for under $300 and replaced it. Not a difficult project. Before replacing with new, I took it to an auto electric shop and they rebuilt it for $40, but it failed again in short order.

Let me know if you plan to replace yourself and I could walk you through it.

ken
 
Ken,
Where did you find the new motor for $300? On Boats.net, a new unit costs $1300. Is there a preferred Honda parts source for C-Brats?
Matt
 
All you should need is the Motor Assembly. I bought mine from Boats.net. I do not know what model your 1999 BF50 is, but if you look at the exploded view for the last model listed, you need item 3, Motor Assy, Power Tilt, $231.29.

When you are ready to replace, it will appear that the four bolts that the tilt motor are attached with are not accessible. All you need to do is remove a snap ring that attaches the lift piston, then rotate the motor inboard of the transom. This will allow you to easily access the bolts. Be sure to use waterproof connectors as you rewire the connections.

Hope this helps.
 
That was extremely helpful. Thank you so much.
Matt
 
Ok, I see posts from others more expert than me...BUT... my Honda 90 has a fuse between the tilt switch and pump. It corroded and prevented opperation. On the 90 at least, this was a 10 second fix.
 
I'll look for that fuse. That would be nice if that was it. Though I've put 12 v straight to the plug going to the pump and get nothing.
 
After I made sure there was no blown fuse, I'd be darned sure the motor was grounded properly, though that should be "automatic" / built-in from the mounting, but corrosion occurs.

Then I'd open the motor housing up and check the wiring inside, including the brushes and their length, continuity, and pressure on the armature commutator.

Then I'd pull out the armature and check the condition of the commutator surfaces, and then check the individual electromagnetic units for continuity with an Ohmmeter. There should be continuity between opposite segments of the copper commutator sections. The armature is actually a series of electromagnets arranged in a circular pattern that fits inside the field magnets and interacts with them to generate turning forces (torque).

I'm guessing that this is a PM (Permanent Magnet) motor, without field windings, but check to be sure. If there are any windings, check them for continuity.

In short, find the fault, and whether it can be corrected before buying a new unit for replacement. On 80% of the12 volt motors I've worked on of similar types, the problems are in 1) worn brushes that can be replaced and rough commutators than can be simply sanded smooth with emery paper, or 2) simply loose or corroded connections.

It never hurts to do a little detective work before opting for wholesale replacement of components, especially at marine goods prices. Plus the detective work makes you feel good (smart), instead of befuddled, again!

Good Luck!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Lots of smart and talented folks on this forum. I was going to suggest trying to replace the brushes first, but see they cost almost as much as the entire motor assembly.
 
There are a lot of smart people in this group. I won't be back at my boat for a few days, but I will check for fuse, ground, motor continuity. Before ordering a new motor.
 
So here's what I've found so far. There was no fuse in the circuit. The motor's ground was good. I removed the whole unit and opened up the motor housing. The motor was rusted and barely moved. I can replace the motor assembly for $231. But fear that something else may have caused the motor to fail in the first place. Perhaps a worn pump. In which case I'll have to chase down other parts. I'm thinking of going to a CMC jack/trim unit rated for 50 hp that costs $500 and being done with it.
 
Same thing in my case. Apparently moisture had entered the motor housing causing corrosion. It was obvious the o-ring seals had failed. I think the motor only drives the hydraulic pump, which cycles the lift rams. In other words, the motor is sealed from the hydraulic system. Just becuase the motor is bad, does not mean anything is wrong with the hydraulic system. I suggest that if there is no evidence of water intrusion in the hydraulic system, it should be fine.
 
I purchased the motor and before hooking it up, I tested it with 12 v and it worked. Plugged it in on motor and it didn't. I tested the voltage coming out of the motor plug and didn't get any voltage. It clicks when the button is pushed but no 12 v coming out. I checked the two 15 amp fuses in the front of the engine. So I'm suspecting the switching relay.
I'm open to suggestions.
 
Scratching my head... Is there continuity thru the switch when it is closed?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by continuity. The plug comes right out of the relay. Two wires, green and blue. I believe that you should get 12v either positive or negative between the two when you hit the switch.
 
I don't know if it's the same on Honda's but we had problem with a bad tilt/trim relay on our 2006 Suzuki 90hp. The motor started raising up and down at random before finally stopping. It was a fairly inexpensive part, it was replaced and no problems since then.

Good luck in your trouble-shooting. Sorry it's taking so long to figure out.
 
Does the BF 50 have a tilt control rocker switch on the motor and throttle like my BF75? Will neither activate the tilt motor? You know the motor is good and grounded, so it seems like the problem would have to be a switch or relay as Peter suggested.
 
it does have switches both on the throttle and and on the side of the engine.
I can hear the switch click. So i suspect the relay also.
I know this isn't the proper way to go but I just purchased a $6 25amp three way switch from Frys and see if it will operate that way.

:phone
 
I suspect that Peter is right that the relay or its associated wiring is bad. But not being able to find that part, I installed a double throw, double pole switch with a 10 amp fuse straight to the motor and mounted it on my dash. It works perfect. I just can't operate the T&T from the side of the engine. Just happy to be operational.
 
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