Honda BF50 vs Yamaha F50

Blueback

New member
We all have a preference for powering our C-Dory's in terms of outboard makes. For some, its as simple as having a good dealer close at hand promoting a certain make of outboard that does it. For others-- its what they have come to believe is technically the best outboard engine on the market in terms of reliability and long service potential.
For me, in buying a used Honda BF50 2003 carbed unit, was, initially, the price I was able to pick it up for. However, after a season of using this reliable engine I decided to see if I could improved the low speed smoothness (idle to 2500RPMs. I built my own manometer and found that the carbs. were out of synch a bit.. My manometer is very sensitive and I think I have that part nailed down now. Secondly I am starting to try a Yamaha product too (LOL) called "Ring Free" and I believe its improving the performance as well, by de-carbonizing the ring grooves and combustion chamber-etc.
I have based lined the compression across the 3 cylinders and they are amazingly constant at 199 PSI each. Yeah- that makes my a happy camper-err- fisher/cruiser .
Then being an old gear head-marine engineer, I started thinking about this compression range stated for this Honda BF50 at 199- 220 PSI or so and that amazed me as that relates to 12.2 - 13 compression ratio! The only way they can run this engine that high in compression, with regular gas, is having a very sophisticated advance curve to stop detonation (piston knock) coupled with a technically advanced shape in their combustion chamber. This is the where the Honda gets the power out of 3 cylinders making it a light weigh engine 208 lbs-- as apposed to 249lbs for the Yamaha 4 cylinder engine and all the rotation parts for this fourth cylinder. Yeah the Yamie its reliable too, but it no race pony having a 9.5 : 1 compression ratio. This means the thermal efficiency of the Honda is about 8% more than the Yamie and that relates directly to better fuel mileage.
Further proof is the trend in the mileage race in the automotive industry. They are all increasing compression ratios like crazy for the thermal efficiencies that are known to result from higher cylinder pressures.
So in the end Honda may have issues with salt corrosion around their thermostat housing --etc- etc. But when it comes to weight hanging off the back of your boat and better mileage - Yamaha is well behind Honda IMO.
 
My choice was uncomplicated. Not being a mechanic, or knowing much about hte difference between twins or singles, I was looking for a C-Dory. The one I found, was set up by a guy who had 24 previous boats. This one was going to be his last, and he got it just before his retirement, with plans to fish his way to Alaska, and then some. At just over 50, he was planning on it being his last and retirement boat. (It was.) And I was the recipient of his extensive knowledge and experience.

It had Yami's on it, and I'm convinced he knew of the issues with dealing with some other (not to be named here) brands in Canada waters.

I have not had a single lick of trouble, and they have started every time with no issues after the first bit of messing about right after I purchased the boat. It was due to sitting unattended for over 6 months with (probably untreated ) ethanol gas. Once the fix was in, they work like clock work. I'm OK with staying with the Yamaha.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I built a manometer years ago to set the draft on an oil burner for my furnace, but am not convinced it would be accurate enough to balance the carbs on an outboard. Can you share your design?
 
hardee":1tsgyvgi said:
My choice was uncomplicated. Not being a mechanic, or knowing much about hte difference between twins or singles, I was looking for a C-Dory. The one I found, was set up by a guy who had 24 previous boats. This one was going to be his last, and he got it just before his retirement, with plans to fish his way to Alaska, and then some. At just over 50, he was planning on it being his last and retirement boat. (It was.) And I was the recipient of his extensive knowledge and experience.

It had Yami's on it, and I'm convinced he knew of the issues with dealing with some other (not to be named here) brands in Canada waters.

I have not had a single lick of trouble, and they have started every time with no issues after the first bit of messing about right after I purchased the boat. It was due to sitting unattended for over 6 months with (probably untreated ) ethanol gas. Once the fix was in, they work like clock work. I'm OK with staying with the Yamaha.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Harvey,
I would never advocate a change from Yamaha to Honda based on the facts I have researched on thermal efficiency and added weight. Your Yamaha is a fine outboard and is in fact quieter and smoother with 4 cylinders and lower compression. I point out these facts of the Honda design for those who may require a new engine-s as a matter of interest.
For me with a 16 C--Dory - adding 40 lbs engine weight (Yamaha) is a big factor which makes Honda shine in this single measurement.
I rode Yamaha motorcycles and would never diss their capacity to build great engines.
 
cbgale":2sgm3d6l said:
I built a manometer years ago to set the draft on an oil burner for my furnace, but am not convinced it would be accurate enough to balance the carbs on an outboard. Can you share your design?
I can assure you that carb. sticks (6") sold over the counter, or gauges can never come close to the accuracy you can obtain with a 3 ft model like I built.
I will pull it out of storage and post in a day or two
Cheers
Geoff
 
I built mine out of 3 vacuum, liquid filled gauges that I bought from EBAY for $8 each.... very accurate... only problem is that they are calibrated in some sort of Chinese pressure scale...one that I can't seem to decipher...but who cares, all I am looking at is the three gauges to make sure the pointers are all pointed the same.... I glued the three to a narrow board so they are 1,2,3 in the same order as the carbs and they sit next to the carbs when I am adjusting them....easy

NOW the really trick thing.... I found that wire welding tips are metric thread and the exact same size as the plugs in the manifold....keen ! Just screw em in and go...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Geoff. Thanks for the kind words on the Yamaha choice for my boat. One factor in the weight of the F50 is that it is the small -- scratch that -- lowest power of the set of 3 that are all built on the same frame, F50. F60, & F70 are all the same block, just tweaked differently.

If it were not for that little tidbit, I would be considering re-powering with an F50 EFI in order to get fuel management info to my plotter.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Sea Wolf":lrss024r said:
Blueback":lrss024r said:
cbgale":lrss024r said:
I built a manometer years ago to set the draft on an oil burner for my furnace, but am not convinced it would be accurate enough to balance the carbs on an outboard. Can you share your design?


[/img]
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e247/ ... 8883453105
This should open up a picture- damn if I CAN POST IT

Here ya' go-

IMG_2329_zpsukltsbce.jpgIMG_2336_zpshqprwbx4.jpg

Would you please explain what I misse and You Did --Joe
Thanks
Geoff

Joe. . :teeth :thup
 

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Would you please explain what I missed and You Did --Joe
Thanks
Geoff

Geoff- Two things:

You have to get the address of the photo, not the whole address to the server where it is stored that appears on your address bar. There's a difference, but I'm not enough of a computer pro to explain it.

I just press the mouse down with the cursor on the photo along with pressing down the "control" key, and a drop down menu appears, which I then click on with the cursor,and the location address of the photo goes onto the clipboard.

I then transfer the address wherever I want it in a post, and add

behind it, with no spaces intervening in either case.

This is with an iMac computer. If you have a PC style computer, your right click, & left click mouse buttons get used, but I don't know how.

There several threads on this site on posting photos, perhaps they will help if this one doesn't.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
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