How safe are anchor swivels

I would doubt a C-Dory with a quality swivel would have a problem pulling apart a swivel. If you don't want to use a swivel that's cool. I would not lose any sleep either way. If things get twisted enough rode can bunch as your letting out rode using your windless that will require some undoing while in the process of dropping the hook. No biggie you have to go up there anyway to tie off the rode. Having a remote control for your windless would be nice so you could straighten any defugelties with out have to return to the helm to get to the windless control. Not bad if you have your baby momma along as she can follow your directions. For single handlers more of a pain. No matter what product you speak of; someone somewhere will have had a problem with it.
D.D.
 
For the 1st nine seasons with our CD22, I pulled the anchor & chain by hand & didn't feel any need for a swivel & then in 2012 added a Lewmar 700H windless. With most comments I've read, saying a swivel accomplishes very little & if anything adds a weaker link in the rode & very little room between the end of the anchor shank & gypsy in my new set up, I opted to do without a swivel. Now, another 4 season have past in which the new windless has been put to very good use. I can now say, no matter how fast or slow, the anchor was brought up, there have been twist in the 50 foot of chain the majority of the time, causing a racket as it passed through the gypsy, that I'm sure is causing accelerated wear on it. For us, getting the twist out involved dropping the anchor & chain in water depth deep enough that the anchor could rotate the twist out. For me, eliminating this process or the extra grinding on the windless is well worth the slight to me risk of adding a swivel, so this winter, I did. I believe with it in place my sleeping at anchor will be fine, just like years past, but if it doesn't eliminate the twist in the chain & the swivel cool looks most certainly not a factor, I'll be removing it.

I checked out the Mantus swivel & like it better than this http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... &id=655561 Suncor Swivel, I purchased from Defender. The price is the same & if the Suncor Swivel helps in the areas I described, then I'll probably purchase the Mantus.

Jay
 
The Mantus is a new one to me, so after looking it up, reading and watching the info on their site, I’m passing that along.

Here is the link to the Mantus swivel. It does look pretty good. The Mantus is made of 316 Stainless Steel. The S-1 is $65 which fits the ¼ HT G-4 chain that is pretty common on the C-Dory 22’s.

http://www.mantusanchors.com/mantus-swivel/


swivel-diagram.jpg

Specs for the S-1, for ¼ to 5/16 chain. Working load 2,200 pounds, Breaking load is 11,000 pounds.
$65.00



The Suncor’s are made from 17-4PH Stainless Steel. The Defender site says that they have “ball bearings”. I called Suncor and they were absolutely adamant that they had not had ball bearings in the device for several years. OK, but they would not supply me with an engineering drawing that showed internal pin dimensions. The person I talked to said the breaking strength said plenty about their construction.

Suncor Stainless Steel Universal Anchor Swivel, which has an additional piece to allow swivel and rotation on a different axis. Breaking load 8,500 pounds.
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... &id=655621
$83.99

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Suncor Stainless Steel 360 Degree Anchor Swivel
Shorter, still with 8,500 pounds breaking load.
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... &id=655561
$65.99

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I am still +/- on whether I want a swivel or not. Jay’s comment about the windlass grinding is not the first I have heard of that. I agree that it doesn’t seem like there should be all that twisting, but in some cases at least, there is, and for single handing, I am trying to avoid going up on the fore deck as much as possible, especially since the windlass controls are at the helm.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Well I started this tread and after reading that article in 2009, and I removed the swivel I was using. I had continuos problems with the line twisting and getting stuck when dropping the anchor. I do have a windlass.

So I went back to using the swivel and have no problems with twist. I also feel it is unlikely that the swivel would ever see loads that could cause failure from the normal anchoring I am likely to do.
 
After all the reading I have been doing on swivel vs no swivel, I think I am coming to a couple of conclusions. I think the stainless ones are less likely to bind up, but also, either stainless or other, there are hidden parts that we can't see from the outside. In stainless, if there is a corrosion problem, it will most likely come from the inside and it is very likely that the first indication of failure could be the sound of the boat rubbing on a rocky lee shore at 0200. Not where we want to be when we wake up.

I agree, that the C-Dory may not load the swivel to breaking weights, but if there is some metal failure due to the corrosion it may go before those limits are reached. If possible, I would try to go to an over-sized swivel if I am going to use it.

I am thinking that using an over-sized swivel and inspecting it frequently must be part of the protocol. The other component would be to replace the swivel frequently. That could be based on the number of uses, or the number of months of use. I guess those numbers would have to be decided by the user.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

0_CD_Cover_SlpyC_with_Classics_MBSP_2009_288.thumb.jpg
 
I and my cruising buddy both had bad experiences with Kong swivels 15-20 years ago - they bent, and would have come apart had we not noticed and removed them.

When I switched from a Bruce to a Rocna a few years ago, I started having rope and chain twist problems, apparently caused by the anchor twisting as it was lowered or raised or both. By the time the chain reached the windlass on retrieval, sometimes it was twisted enough that I had to lean over the bow pulpit and untwist by hand before the chain would run through the windlass. Major PITA. This is the only thing I don't LOVE about the Rocna. Made me wonder if the Rocna was welded just a tiny bit crooked?? Called Rocna, sent them a bunch of pictures, and they thought it looked fine.

So I started researching swivels again. Wound up with the Suncor Universal pictured above. It is far better designed and constructed than the Kongs. It has eliminated most of the twist problem, and seems to be in good shape after two summers in SE AK. I think it would be plenty strong for a CD22, at least for some number of uses - I inspect every day. Still makes me nervous, however. Maybe I'll try a Mantus.
 
It appears that I was just lucky. I could see where three-strand rode might have a tendency to "follow the twist," and maybe more under tension than when not, i.e., more one direction than the other. But I used three-strand. Even if I didn't notice a twist when retrieved, it seems like it would have shown up in the rode when laying in the anchor locker.

One of the things that I commonly did was to get the anchor up off of the bottom and then drift or power at idle for a few minutes. That almost always got rid of the mud/seaweed. Maybe my anchor was spinning around during this maneuver.

Mark
 
"One of the things that I commonly did was to get the anchor up off of the bottom and then drift or power at idle for a few minutes. That almost always got rid of the mud/seaweed. Maybe my anchor was spinning around during this maneuver. "
Click to expand...

Mark, Drifting would allow the anchor/rode to straighten itself out, and bring it up slow, in segments would do that while drifting. Powering the boat, (which I do in reverse) does help clean the anchor and chain, (which I do regularly) as I am retrieving. With my Delta, I don't think it would "fly" but I have seen a Bruce do that, and I am wondering if my new Rocna would also. They both have more surface area than the Delta, whose weight was more concentrated at the forward tip.

I have always admired those folk who could just wind in the anchor and motor off. My process is more like I feel obligated to provide the morning antics on the water before my day can get moving. :oops: :shock: :lol:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_055.highlight.jpg
 
Harvey-

1. Your Quick windlass should probably have a magnet and a coil pick up built into it for a counter if it's similar to my Quick Aires 500.

2. Using an oversize swivel is an obvious solution until you look at them closely and find that the pins on the oversize are too big and won't fit through the inner open space on a 1/4" link of chain. :sad

You might be able to work up to a larger opening using a shackle or two of graduating open tolerances.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I have a Rocna and it spins on retrieval with the Lewmar V 700. I think any anchor with a large blade or "wings" is likely to spin on a fast retrieve. The V700 is one speed and it is pretty quick. I try and stop periodically on the way up to let things unwind if need be. And stop again to do the same before the chain comes into the windlass.

I have quailty Crosby G 209 Shackles with the red pins (U.S.A.). Their working load is 1,000 lbs. Maximum load is 2x the working load which gets us to 2,000 lbs. Crosby lists maximum strength load at 6 x working load or 6,000 lbs. These may be the weak link in my system in a straight line pull.

I use a swivel rated at 8500 lbs and connect to the anchor with several links of chain and a shackle between the anchor and the swivel to minimize side load.

For me, the worry is mechanical wear and failure of the swivel internally. I will be inspecting routinely and replacing periodically. At $65 per swivel and the cost of the boat if the swivel were to let go at a bad time, replacement of the swivel every few years seems like a pretty good deal if I continue to use one.

A good and helpful discussion.
 
I have one, and my rode twists anyway, and my anchor has an annoying habit of coming to my roller upside down, and falling off the side and hitting the gelcoat if I'm not paying attention (or someone else is manning the button and I'm managing rode in the locker).

Swivel or not, if I'm anchoring in over 100' of water, my rode comes up twisted. I imagine the problem would be much more dramatic if I had no swivel.

I plan on keeping my swivel, though it's certainly the weak spot in my ground tackle. I'm not sure why I would wake up to the sound of my boat on the rocks if the swivel failed. I'd hope that I'd wake to the sound of my anchor drag alarm and get up and fix the problem while still safely afloat, and would avoid sleeping at an anchorage that didn't afford the opportunity to wake up and reset my anchor before drifting aground.

For what it's worth, one could always put their swivel between a couple chain links and snub across it with a shackle (clevis!) for sleeping, if that made you sleep better. But still use an anchor drag alarm.
 
Resurrecting this thread with a question. After a discussion at the Hontoon gathering, and seeing the Mantus chain swivel, I decided to change my Lewmar swivel out for this robust monster. I am a little concerned about the pin that holds the chain in the swivel however. Seems like it wouldn't take much wear, before the pin could come out. Here is a photo of the swivel on my boat. I did put some safety wire around it for now, but don't expect the wire to stay on as nothing to keep it from slipping off towards the chain. The pictures on the Mantus instruction sheet appear to show part of the pin uncovered as well, but mine seems to have a little more of the pin showing. John, how's this compare with yours, and if anyone else has one, how's it compare? Colby

IMG_9461.jpg
 
Did you use the oblong pin? The pin is stronger than the chain link. Mine has been working for years with no sign of wear. You can buy spare pins for 2 bucks. it's a great swivel no side lode.
 
jkidd":39cri7ts said:
Did you use the oblong pin? The pin is stronger than the chain link. Mine has been working for years with no sign of wear. You can buy spare pins for 2 bucks. it's a great swivel no side lode.
Click to expand...

Hi Jody,
Yes, I used the oblong pin that came with it. Just seems like too much is left showing beneath the collar. Colby
 
Hi Colby,

I don’t see any significant difference between the Mantus photo and your photo.

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-swivel/

But then, I’m an old fart with glaucoma. I’ll get a picture soon of my connection.

I agree Mantus engineers have the oblong SS pin as the strongest link in the rode, as long as the bell and anchor connections are properly seized down with the provided SS wire. I suspect allowing owners to visually inspect the condition of the $2 oblong SS pin ends is a deliberate (and I think wise) choice. There is no way that pin can ‘back out’ if even a tiny amount of the bell housing prevents it.

Over the decades, I’ve noticed that the ‘last link’ galvanized G3 chain attachment to the high grade SS shackle or swivel gets worn and/ or corroded (two dissimilar metals immersed in salt water for many overnights will have that happen). So I hacksaw off the ‘last link’ every few seasons even if it looks OK. Maybe OC on my part.

John
 
Thanks John. I did use the cotter pin to lock the bell housing in position, and just used the SS safety wire to secure the bolt holding the anchor clamp. Tom called me and said he just took his apart to do some work and it still looked good after the time he has had it. He felt my pin was fine from the photos. So I guess I can stop worrying. 8) Colby
 
Good morning,
It's new for me to discuss real boat issues vs family and seldom used 'summer boat' issues of my days gone by. The pragmatist in me asks: 'whom in this group or even whom do you know period' that has counted wow many complete rotaions their boats have made (swiveled)?
Not trying to be a smart guy. But rather I'm on the market. If this is really a thing then I want to follow through with the findings here and add this to my boat's anchoring system. I've never felt the need for these devices and the little voice inside my head says check and verify against controls those things that seem questionable.
Do we really know that we need these swivels? Or are they really for the performance of our windlasses?
I'm not in any way trying to be a smarty but these thoughts plague me as I work these days on my own system.
Hardee's point below suggests that perhaps we feel some sort of obligation to the community to look or perform certain tasks "just because".

I was a professional tree climber until my mid 30's. I climbed in the Redwoods surrounding Eureka CA for a year and most climbing after that was anti-climatic. One thing I know is that all rope has a given lay. Three strand has a tremendous tendency to display these attributes. It seems to have more to do with tension than twist. Is is your Rode the right thickness? I could go on........
 
Good morning Donald. The swivel just helps to keep the chain from twisting as you bring the anchor up. Some use one, some don't. But a few have stated it does make a difference. But it is a weak point on your anchoring rode, so you want to make sure you have one you can trust. I had one for a long time, I believe a Lewmar, that was sent to me by the same company that provided my rode and chain. I had not used one before, and would not have used one, but the company shorted me about 25 feet of rode, and when I reported this to them they gave me a choice of them sending another 25' of rode or a swivel. Additional short section of rode would have done me no good, as I was not going to splice it in, so I took the swivel. I've had it probably for well over 6 years, and it has held up. But when I saw the Mantus that John mentioned at Hontoon, I could see that was pretty dang robust, so I decided to replace my smaller swivel. In summary, I don't think you need to worry about the additional expense, unless you do a lot of anchoring and notice problems with your rode and chain twisting. Colby
 
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