Hull ID (HID) mystery In California

[mendocoast]

Hello All -
Just acquired a 2006 22' Cruiser in California. After I received boat, which is after I transferred title, I noticed that the DMV paperwork shows a zero in the third position of the HID as opposed to the letter 'O'. CD0 vs CDO, the latter I believe being the actual mfg code. When I asked the DMV I got several different explanations.
1) The record for the vessel with the zero in that place shows up regardless of whether enter zero or the letter O. And they claim its been registered that way since 2015, presumably when it was first registered in CA.
2) CA doesn't allow the letters 'I', 'O' in a vessel ID, presumably because of confusion with similar number. When I asked someone at the C-dory and did some reading, I see that these letters as well as the letter Q are not allowed, specifically in the serial number portion, positions 3-7
3) One DMV rep said I should request the change, the other said I shouldn't because it wouldn't be allowed.
Noting that when I run a boat record search, it only recognizes the version with the letter 'O' in third position.

When I look at the stamped HID in hull and the plate under eyebrow it I don't see a difference between that character and another zero in the date portion of the HID so I can't verify the distinction based on that.
Anyone familiar with this issue? Recommendations? Concerns? Thank You

 

[MHAatthebeach]

Hi mendocoast,

Sorry for the HID problems. We have had a perhaps similar HID puzzle. We purchased a 2012 C-Dory Venture23 out of Oregon. When we registered it in Washington we were informed that the boat HID was incorrect; that the identification number on the title and stamped into the hull had the wrong number of digits. After some research I learned that a small number of boats were manufactured with an additional digit. In spite of our documentation Washington ‘insisted’ that this stamped HID be ‘removed’ and that a new state-issued HID be permanently affixed to the hull (!!!). I’m not thrilled with this. Losing the boat’s historic documentation makes no sense to me. I’m curious if anyone else has encountered something like this. It seems like your issue is somewhat similar.

By the way. You mentioned another HID stamped under the eyebrow of your boat. Exactly where is that located?

All the best from Puget Sound.

 

[alainP]

Same thing happened to me when I was attempting to register my 2011 CD25 in AZ, one too many digit.
I got rid of the last one on the little aluminum plates (one on the stern and the other at the nav station) that last digit was an extra 0 if I remember well.
No problem after that with the paper work.

 

[thataway]

Perhaps there are certain letters or numbers best left unquestioned...I have observed the difficulty of getting HIN numbers changed. At least in Florida, if you put a plate on, other than that from the factory (some boats have stamped al plate, instead of the HIN embossed into the upper starboard side of transom.

For those who do not know the nomenclature of the HIN; (from Wisconsin DNR:


My understanding is the the Letter preceding the last numbers designates when the "keel was laid"
It was probably a mistake made by some lower paid employee and there may well be a number of mistakes like this--that no-one questions. Yes, there were some C Dorys with a 13 digit number--which actually creates far more of an issue.

If this were my boat I would put the first 3 letters as "C" as in Charlie, "D" as in David, and "O" as in Oscar. And not worry. Now that you have formally contested the letters, you may be in for a "ride" on Calif. DVM's infrastructure. (Hopefully not)

By law every boat has to have a "hidden" HIN, this on most C Dorys is close to the horn, near the middle of the underside of the Eyebrow. It will be an aluminum plate stamped or engraved with the official HIN #.

The last four characters are: Month of "Certification" Year of "Certification" and last 2 are year model--generally C Dory in more recent years has used July as the next year's model--but that has not been consistent.

Boats build before Nov. 1 1984(cut off date, 1 August was official change date), may have the older HIN system. Occasionally this can be a problem. In this case the month of certification may be numeric or it may have alphabetic distinction.

The confusion also is in the next 5 digits. Some of the C Dorys have the first two digits as the length of the boat, some have the last 3 numbers (255) as the last three, etc.

There should be no characters, such as -_# or spaces in the HIN.

C Dory has been
"CDO". (C-DORY MARINE INC),
"MFN". (MARBEN MARINE),
"GXK" (CAPE CRUISER BOAT WORKS)
"NWM". (NORTHWEST MARINE INDUSTRIES)
"CMC" (TRITON MARINE INDUSTRIES (DBA)
"WNZ". (State of Washington)= a reassigned number 13 dig.
"UWH". (FLUID MARINE LLC)
"FMLT". (FLUID MOTION, LLC- Ranger Tug)

There are a few others, which are not really. Official HIN prefixes.
the 13 digits are mostly in the 2009 and 2010 eras.

When C Dory owners type in the HIN for our data base many use the numeric "0" when it should be the alphabetic "O"

There have been a few boats with the second HIM in the Starboard Lazaret or side pocket.

 

[mendocoast]

Thanks for the interesting non-CA anecdotes. However, what I'm describing I think is distinctive in that it specifically has to do with an apparent conflict between the state's restrictions on characters allowed in the mfg ID part of the HID. I'd love to hear from a California C-dory owner with a boat that was mfg during the era in which they used the "CDO" mfg ID. Although, I suspect this could also affect other CA registered vessels with mfg IDs containing O, I and perhaps Q. Were you forced or allowed to change that part of the HID? I should note that I faced no obstacle to the title transfer process with the zero in the mfg part of the ID. I just happened to notice the discrepancy after the fact. And since I have insurance the HID needs to match the DMV info - as far as I know. Thanks for any additional insight.

 

[thataway]

Thanks for the interesting non-CA anecdotes. However, what I'm describing I think is distinctive in that it specifically has to do with an apparent conflict between the state's restrictions on characters allowed in the mfg ID part of the HID.

Actually what I wrote has a direct bearing on your situation. Apparently you brought this up to the DMV and made an issue of it. In many fonts the "O" vs the "0" is very difficult to discern. Did you think that because I used the Washington State substitution for the 13 digit HIN, that what I wrote was restricted or had to do only with the state of Washington? If so you are mistaken. The Washington ID was the only one I found which matched the Federal Data Base of Corrected numbers. It is very likely that other states dealt with this problem, and it is not represented properly in the data base.

What we don't know is how many have the "0" vs the "O". 2006 was one of the prolific years-and each member would have to look at his HIN to determine against some standard what the width of the "O" is. That is why some put a diagonal strike mark across the number "0" --those typed in HIN in the database would have no bearing--since it might be operator error in putting in the number in our data base. However each member would have to check on the state title to see if the O and 0 were properly formatted on the HIN, the Alternate HIN the yearly registration, and the official title. So there are many places for an "error" to be made. Most folks just go with the flow. The DMV or Tag offices are used to people putting "O" vs "0", and go by the rules, which are the 3 first characters of the HIN are alphabetic, not numeric.

Why I took the time to search the entire data base, and post the information was for many newer members who may not know the subtlety and Nomenclature of the HIN Number. This forum is not only about answering specific questions, but it is also about teaching newer boaters. This is one of the reasons that the C Brat Forum is so special.

I suspect that many DNV's and most owners would not catch the difference in the "O" vs the '0" fonts. But now that you have brought up the issue--it will have to be rectified in some way--and the only legal way I know of is for the state to issue a new ID--I have dealt with this in Florida, as a consultant. I traveled over to verify the, actual character, with both rubbings and a photograph. In Florida they usually have a Dept of Fish and Wildlife verify the new HIN after you place it on the boat--in Calif. (I lived there for over 50 years, and my son has a C Dory 25 there currently) you will probably have to have DMV verify that the HIN has been corrected.

On edit: One addition: I have seen metal stamp sets where the O and the 0 are the same stamp--they save costs and metal. The technique for the transom HIN and the second embossed metal plate are different, and used different procedures to accomplish the HIN marking.

Now--spend some time on the water with that "new to you" C Dory!